 Poster: A snowHead
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There is plenty of info presented by resorts just that idiots don't pay attention to it. Similar idiots will ski right past a piste ferme sign in spring on the basis it "looks ok" in order to avoid a more difficult piste utterly oblivious to the massive wet slide hangfire above the closed piste.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| boarder2020 wrote: |
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The average post on Snowheads is written by somebody who is between sixty and seventy. And they’ve all got the kit.
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The average snowheads is a 1-2 week "holiday skier" more interested in where is good for lunch than the actual skiing. Look at number of threads about which restaurants/bars/pistes Vs any requests about off piste routes or backcountry trips.
Yes, they have probably heard about avalanches killing people but they assume it's people doing something wild in the backcountry. |
The average Snowhead is a 1-2 week holiday skier. Agreed. However the average post on Snowheads is written by somebody who fits my description. Quite a different measure!
Anyway, your second paragraph above is what it’s all about.
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| Rogerdodger wrote: |
Interesting comments on ski school atitude @bouquetin,
For many years I have considered ski schools the "wrong schools" to study off -piste, ski touring and avalanche awareness.
There is a volume of anecdotal evidence to support that statement. I could list a number of incidents with which I have personal association.
Very simply Instructors :Teach Skiing.
Mount Guides Teach: Mountain Safety |
This is a sweeping generalization.
Sorry you havent had right ski instructors bring you off piste before
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@boarder2020, what about the Dutch. And the Belgians.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I don't think it is controversial to say the average skier (not just Brits) isn't knowledgeable about avalanche danger.
What would be useful for the average skier to know, without a little bit of knowledge being a dangerous thing?
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| bouquetin wrote: |
I don't think it is controversial to say the average skier (not just Brits) isn't knowledgeable about avalanche danger.
What would be useful for the average skier to know, without a little bit of knowledge being a dangerous thing? |
Jones Snowboards Five Red Flags is a good starting point. If you're not knowledgeable then this is an easy warning list.
New Snow.
Signs of recent avalanches.
Collapsing or cracking in snowpack.
Rapid rise in temperature.
Strong winds, blowing & drifting snow.
In La Plagne, all 5 of those were present by the time we left on Friday.
EDIT: I'd also add that the danger over the weekend was compounded by there not actually being that much snow. That 1m of powder that everyone was riding was directly on top of rocks. The section where that avalanche happened was brown last week. With a bit of wind drift, you're looking at some sections having tiny amounts of snow on them. You're not landing on a powder pillow when you fall in a lot of cases.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Interesting clip here from Courcheval- https://www.instagram.com/p/DTaAptYCENp/ - all seem very relaxed/blase about the whole thing! Interestingly it says in the comment 'Everyone fully equipped' though one lady comes down without a backpack so not sure where she was storing her shovel/probe.
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@Rogerdodger, Not sure I'd agree with that, at least not here in Austria. Those who teach beginners and piste skiers in our ski school follow a syllabus which includes the delivery of "warnings" to our guests about skiing off marked trails/pistes without a guide. Our guests who want to learn to go off-piste must book or have completed an off-piste training course before we accept them. Those who teach off-piste must have completed at least the ISIA Level III Mountain Safety Course (The Alpinkurs under the Austrian system). All our off-piste starts with revision training on safety equipment. I regularly ski tour and ski off-piste with guests and friends and the routine doesn't change even when introducing our younger instructors to some lines. Mind you, I did get taught Mountain Safety by older blokes in bobble hats, I'm probably one of them now.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Another report from Sainte Foy - avalanche that went over blue slope from the top of the Marquise chair. Lots of heli activity, apparently they are looking for 3 people
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@paulhinch, my understanding is level 5 is usually "do not go outside your accommodation" (iirc in some places this can even be enforced by local law enforcement)
Basically risk of towns and infrastructure being hit.
Basically level 4 is as high as the risk gets because you won't get near avalanche terrain with skis on a level 5 day...
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You know it makes sense.
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@mooney058, I can confirm four people were dug out and all safe . The avalanche started on the ridge above the Marquise ski area
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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And the percentage of ski fields with terrain that is avalanche prone is tiny. Esp with Nevis now not considered a ski resort.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Le Grand Renard, wow, so the resort did not secure that area?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Layne, obvs it does. Only seen it a few times myself.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'm skiing with some friends this week who ski once a year. One of them is a boarder and spends a lot of time "between the pistes" and "just off the piste." It was Level 4 here on Sunday and in the morning on a lift I was talking to them about off piste risks. They're an intelligent person but have had no training in avy safety and have no gear. I explained that under 30deg with no steeper terrain above that could compromise it should be safe. They nodded then said that if other people had already been there it should also be fine and were surprised when I said that was a poor assumption and that people had died in that situation, as conditions can change etc.
I think the above is a good example of the "average" holiday skier. As someone else said above, they don't associate the easily accessible bits outside the poles with "off piste" and risk.
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@mooney058, no didn’t say that, it is well known avalanche area with a dynamite lines set up. Ive had a property there for over 20 yrs and the area is always blasted and secured before the two top lifts are open . I’m sure it would have been secured as best they could and no doubt an investigation will take place .
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Genuinely pleased to hear positives to counter my negative take on the subject.
However, whilst there are good guys out there, similarly there are "Muppets".
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@Rogerdodger, I've skied a lot of off piste with ski instructors- ESF, Arlberg SS, Snoworks- and I've been very impressed with their knowledge and safety. I know in ESF they need to do extra training and assessment to be allowed bring clients off piste.
My impression sometimes is some mountain guides can be what some ski instructors would consider cavalier.. they will certainly bring you where ski instructors may fear to tread
Maybe ski instructors, as you're paying for ski lesson, will feel less hesitant about making this an on-piste/ side-of-piste lesson, whereas mountain guides feel more pressured to give you backcountry experience. Thats just personal speculation
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| sugarmoma666 wrote: |
| They nodded then said that if other people had already been there it should also be fine and were surprised when I said that was a poor assumption and that people had died in that situation |
The issue with that is that in the current conditions it’s a bit like walking across a mine field.
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