 Poster: A snowHead
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On Thursday we were due to fly to Innsbruck from Heathrow but when on the approach to the airport the runway was reported as needing de-icing. They couldn’t get it sufficiently good for us to land so we ended up going to Munich to refuel and they had another go and gave the pilot the OK so we eventually set off back to Innsbruck. By the time we got there the braking performance still wasn’t good enough so we ended up going back to Heathrow and landing 7 hours after we‘d left. We managed to get a flight to Salzburg on Friday but missed a day of our holiday and couldn’t use the train and station shuttle we‘d arranged. BA put us up in a hotel at Heathrow for the night but am now wondering whether they will claim the problem was weather not operational so no compensation. I will need to spline that before making an insurance claim for extra costs and hotel night in Austria we couldn’t use.
Has anyone had any experience of this and been successful in getting anything from the airline?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I’d read the thread on Expertflyer/ BA forum about claiming. They know what they’re talking about on there
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Not that it is any help to Op but 2622 British Airways from
London LGW diverted to Munich tonight after a couple of approaches to Innsbruck.
No idea why?
I was watching the Edinburgh flight which was late but got in and was allowed to leave after the curfew time.
Visibility had been poor earlier in the day.
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I’ve crashed a passenger jet trying to land at Innsbruck. It’s notorious for being difficult in bad weather conditions. This was in a full Airbus commercial simulator, I have to admit. And I’m not a qualified passenger jet pilot. Nevertheless I was sitting next to a qualified pilot instructor and his opinion was that it’s a challenging airport to land and take off at for various reasons. On my take-off the engine failure didn’t help much either. But I did succeed eventually, including a night landing. What I took away was that I’d not travel via Innsbruck in the winter if a viable alternative was available, as the odds of bad weather aborting a landing seem significantly higher than other Alpine locations.
So my guess is that any landing issue is most likely to be regarded as weather-related in the initial instance, so be prepared, but that shouldn’t stop you claiming.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Sat 10-01-26 21:57; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I would be inclined to make the insurance claim alongside pursuing other options. If successful you can always withdraw part of the claim or reimburse if already paid out. I'm a doer not a thinker
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| Quote: |
the odds of bad weather aborting a landing seem significantly higher than other Alpine locations.
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with Chambery a close second?
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@LaForet, Innsbruck is terrifying for passengers
'Sporty' for pilots
Landing notes below, with commentary. Notice 'canyoning'. 'Visual'. 'Bad shape'. And 'no auto'. Scary.
schon7:
I’m not sure which app you are referring to, there are 2 (west and east) and where you got the “no go around” from...
SCT-SLB:
There is, in fact no ILS, just a LLZ with a “4 deg. G/S-support” (from the east) with LLZ alignment of 255° whereas the rwy is 260°; from the west we have just a LLZ/DME app.
Nevertheless, there are a few things to consider when you go canyoning into INN using the “east”-app: E.g. the MAP-climb gradient (2,9%=MDA 3089ft AAL 7NM from THR, 3,9%=MDA 2218ft AAL) and the MAP-turning radius (1700m/5500ft).
But there are a few ciritcal things when designing a balked landing procedure: The official suggestion by the authority is to “...climb with at least 6,1% along the northern side of the valley. Start left turn when passing 3200ft QNH west of aerodrome. Max turning radius 1800m/5900ft at turning point 3,0 DME OEV west of station...”! Remember - this pattern is to be flown visually!
The problem is: you might see the rwy at MDA and opt for landing, but if the area just west of the airport is IMC, and you have to go around from below MDA, then you are in real bad shape.
Going regularly into INN with a “special”-procedure for our B737 (but still no provisions for a balked landing), I base my decision on having reasonable visual references into the “balked landing area” west of the airport when passing MDA.
BTW, the rwy length is 2000m/6562ft and ICT_SLB and 411A are correct, there is no way of autolanding.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| LaForet wrote: |
I’ve crashed a passenger jet trying to land at Innsbruck. It’s notorious for being difficult in bad weather conditions. This was in a full Airbus commercial simulator, I have to admit. And I’m not a qualified passenger jet pilot. Nevertheless I was sitting next to a qualified pilot instructor and his opinion was that it’s a challenging airport to land and take off at for various reasons. On my take-off the engine failure didn’t help much either. But I did succeed eventually, including a night landing. What I took away was that I’d not travel via Innsbruck in the winter if a viable alternative was available, as the odds of bad weather aborting a landing seem significantly higher than other Alpine locations.
So my guess is that any landing issue is most likely to be regarded as weather-related in the initial instance, so be prepared, but that shouldn’t stop you claiming. |
I would still opt to go to Innsbruck
I've only once not got out of there and ended up with a nice stopover in the city.
Most of the time though you get diverted to Munich and end up with long transfers.
Alpine airports in the winter is just something else to add to the mix?
Choosing resorts will there be enough snow or too much?
Will my luggage have been loaded?
Will be able to get into resort?
I must admit I relax once in resort
Getting back home will happen sometime 
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Thanks all. I‘ll follow up on the BA forum and do the insurance claim. I would have been happy if they had let us off the plane in Munich, could at least have attempted to get a train in the right direction and got to resort on the Friday early enough to ski.
Getting our luggage back at Heathrow on Thursday evening was dire, 2 hours from landing to it arriving on the belt with no one able to explain why.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Surprised they didn't just go to Munich as alternate and call it a day. I've been diverted to Munich before when on the way to Innsbruck; left us with a much longer transfer to resort (St Anton) but at least we got there on the same day. Mind you this was 20 years ago and it was a tour-op charter flight.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Most of the time Innsbruck's fine unless the weather kicks off.
Geneva seems to be a pain most weekends?
Personally my most disliked airport is Venice I'm not sure why but I do try to avoid it.
Luggage reclaim in Edinburgh is often a joke.
Only my opinion and there are loads of airports I have never been through
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Really strange you went to Munich and then back to Heathrow. You'd have to assume they couldn't sort buses out to get you back to Innsbruck?
We're in our 3rd winter now living in the area, in all that time we've only known friends/family not be able to get in/out of Innsbruck twice. So it does happen, but i'm not convinced it happens enough to warrant not flying there. The convenience of flying in to there is great. One of the times people couldn't fly in, you also couldn't get in or out of Munich either, so it's not always Innsbruck that's the issue.
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You know it makes sense.
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Had a nightmare getting out of Innsbruck about 5 years ago…
Due to fly NYE, nothing was landing and therefore taking off….
EJ, got on the app early, booked for following day…
Unexpected NYE in airport hotel, expensive but manager gave us free access on the minibar!
Following day (NYD) lunch in Innsbruck and a wander round before returning to airport….
All flights landing and taking off as normal…
Except EJ flight from LGW, no idea why the pilot chose not to land…
Not a hope of a flight for the following day….or the day after therefore…..
We took a taxi to Munich (approximately 300 euros)
Hotel at Munich airport (also expensive) but were upgraded to superior room?
Flew home from Munich on 2nd January, into LHR - we live very close to LGW
Missed a day at work….
Home at last….cost over £1000 additional costs, all met by EJ after an initial refusal except for the bus fare from airport to the city centre
Basically our personal snow Armageddon!
So in summary the airline (EasyJet) covered all costs, just had to explain why I’d missed a day at work….
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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We used to ski almost exclusively in the Tirol and we gave up booking flights to INN due to various diversions, being stranded in Munich waiting for buses etc, and ended up always booking to Munich and Zurich and felt a lot less anxious about our journey eventhough we had a longer transfer.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Ozboy, in which months over winter did you get diversions? I've been via Innsbruck a number of times without any problem but it is usually during March.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@ste_B, January and also on a couple of occasions for 1/2 term in February including once on the return trip which paralysed INN airport.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Too much drama here.
We have been flying on Innsbruck for 15+ times.
Never had any problems. And especially flying into Innsbruck is spectacular. And very practical indeed.
Recent problems were across Europe, due to snow almost everywhere
Schiphol Amsterdam was closed last week too, and Munich sure must have had its share too.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Mon 12-01-26 10:07; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Langerzug, It’s mostly been fog / low cloud that has caused issues and not snow.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Why could people not get off at Munich, if they wanted to, so that they could make their own way to Innsbruck?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Origen wrote: |
| Quote: |
the odds of bad weather aborting a landing seem significantly higher than other Alpine locations.
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with Chambery a close second? |
Chambery is such an awesome approach. Surrounded by mountains, steeper than typical glideslope, only one way in and out of the valley, flying in over the lake (assuming it wasn't covered in fog and nothing was getting in).
I never got to experience the circling approach unfortunately.
It used to see 757s back in the day as well.
Shame that there isn't any shared transfer service from there any more. I did it a few years ago but having to taxi/train/coach took way longer than just enduring Geneva airport.
Back on topic, my friend was meant to go to Innsbruck last year but couldn't get in due to fog so diverted to Linz. They took off and tried again a bit later but still couldn't get in so went to Salzburg instead. They had to wait a couple of hours for the transfer coach which was in the wrong place and once they finally got on the coach the coach driver forgot to drop them off at their resort and drove an hour past where they were meant to be staying to another resort and then refused to take them where they were meant to be going. Cue a massive argument between the coach driver and holiday company reps on the phone. They got a half priced holiday out of it at least.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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A friend's son in an EJ pilot. I'm pretty sure he has said that innsbruck is the hardest place to land in Europe.
I have been aware over the years that it has had a larger than average number of diversions as it is not a good place to ry to land at during a storm.
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@Ozboy,
That's November '24-January '25. Way too short and selective period to be statistically relevant.
That indeed was a particularly snowy start of that season. With, on top of that, very few flights at all in November, because no season. Sorry, but really useless statistics!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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We were redirected to Salzburg when they had a pilot scheduling issue. The replacement pilot did not have the papers to land at Innsbruck so off to Salzburg we went. So I do wonder whether some of the mystery redirects might well be due to this, but undisclosed…
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The pilot told us that they couldn’t get any buses or hotel rooms in Munich which is why we went back to London. There was some light snow at Munich and they had to de-ice the plane so I don’t know what the roads were like. Unloading just those who wanted to get off at Munich would have been too complicated with baggage handling.
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I was also on the cancelled BA Innsbruck-Gatwick flight night of Saturday 10 Jan. cancellation as stated was due to inward BA flight being unable to land and being diverted to Munich. My issue with BA is that no other plane landing at Innsbruck that evening was diverted. When I checked in the following day for my replacement flight, the Austrian lady at the check-in desk advised that it is a common issue with BA: apparently due to failure to invest BA don’t have the necessary tech to be able to land in misty conditions and hence are more prone to aborted landings. In contrast, rival airlines such as EasyJet do have the necessary tech and almost never fail to land. Lesson: avoid BA at Innsbruck!
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| JDL65 wrote: |
A friend's son in an EJ pilot. I'm pretty sure he has said that innsbruck is the hardest place to land in Europe.
I have been aware over the years that it has had a larger than average number of diversions as it is not a good place to ry to land at during a storm. |
I remember decades ago that they would only fly BAe 146s and similar into Innsbrück (or Inns Bruck as their marketing department seems to have renamed it). I assume various technology advances have made it possible to land "standard" short haul aircraft since then.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Kentishmole, Unlikely that BA Airbus's are significantly different to EJ Airbus's - they'll all have similar kit and capabilities. The INN runway is 'only' CAT I approved, meaning more than 550m of visibility - and all airliners are capable of landing in CAT I conditions.
What may be different is pilot qualifications and airline procedures. Pilots need specific qualifications to land at INN (and CMF) - basically a tick in a box after simulator training. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that BA have decided (at a management level) to only approve 'visual' condition landings at INN, whereas EJ are happy with 'instrument' approaches.
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