 Poster: A snowHead
|
Hi everyone. Having read through many threads on here about UCPA courses, I was hoping you could possibly advise me on my own query.
Situation
I'm looking for advice on choosing a ski course (full time instruction) with UCPA.
I am debating between the Beginner off piste course, or intermediate/advanced alpine ski course.
Background
I've done a couple of weeks on piste skiing over the last 5/6 years, having previously done about 6 weeks snowboarding before that. Snowboard I was happy on all piste grades and was going off the side of the piste as soon as there was fresh snow.
My current ski level (missed last year), is happy on all ski grade slopes, although more wary on icy blacks. I've been skiing Crans-Montana Switzerland the last few years, and happy with all the pistes there. I've not yet learned to 'carve'. Not much fresh snow when I've gone so no side piste or powder experience!
Advice
Basically I've wanted to start ski touring for years. However I know I need off-piste experience before going on a tour. I had initially planned to do the UCPA Chamonix beginner off piste course. However, after reading reviews that it is less instruction, more guiding, I'm a bit wary I'd be in over my head.
I was then thinking about doing the alpine ski week (fully instructed) in Chamonix, to build up my ski skills on varying snow quality (ice, slush, powder, crust etc), whilst getting some instruction.
I realise these courses are large numbers so it won't be personalised instruction, for piste stuff I'm ok with this, off-piste I'm wary having seen some videos from the course!
Sorry for the long post, just wanted to be as thorough as possible. Would really appreciate people's constructive advice. Cheers!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
I have found ucpa Chamonix instructors a bit more hardcore than at other centres. I had a really tough week for on piste / expert with essentially 50/50 on/off piste but I had essentially zero experience off piste at the time. Other centres it was more like ESF teaching style, cruising around. Chamonix was proper intense.
I’d expect a beginner offpiste to have a nice and gentle introductory couple of days but I would not be surprised that on mid / end week you would be taken in some tricky terrain.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
It's up to you and how you feel with your level of skiing.The off-piste intro courses are perfectly manageable if you able to get down black runs alright although not necessarily in style when snow conditions get more tricky. The group will go at the speed of the slowest skier. That can be a bit frustrating if you are the slowest skier though as you don't always get a rest once you catch up with the group that is waiting for you! Sometimes the instructor will get one of the stronger skiers to ski at the back of the group.
UCPA call it 'découverte' (discovery) and that is what it is really. If the group is collectively good enough they will potentially take you down some more challenging runs by the end of the week but the instructors are generally quite good at making sure it is still achievable for the weakest skiers.
If you are not the right 'level' and are really struggling they may ask you to move to the on-piste group. However I have only seen it happen once in several off-piste courses that I have done with UCPA and that was a girl who really wasn't at a good enough level, turning with her shoulders and falling over constantly. The instructors didn't take that decision lightly and she was a bit upset about it but it was a safety thing really (she initially signed up to the advanced group so she got demoted twice).
Definitely do the intro course if you have never skied off-piste and used the equipment before. The intro courses do focus more on the avalanche risk and rescue side of things. You will probably do a couple of sessions where you practise doing searches which can be a bit tedious because it takes quite a while with a group of 10 but it is really important.
One thing to consider is that you will probably get less focused technical tuition with the off-piste courses as the instructor's focus when you are off-piste in the group's safety. They will give some tips during the week to help you with skiing in different snow conditions/different types of turns and you might do a few drills when you are on-piste but you might improve your level of skiing in a less 'survival' mode with the on-piste course.
I would agree with Gustavobs that Chamonix UCPA (and possibly the other UCPA centres in that area, Argentiere and Flaine) have a bit of a reputation for attracting the more hardcore off-piste crowd (and lots of Swedish people who have almost as much skiing in their blood as they do beer). Personally I would recommend Val Thorens, Tignes (or Val D'Isere although centre is a bit rough) or La Plagne if you want to do the off-piste course (and they are probably better for on-piste as well). Those resorts are ski-in/ski-out (short walk in Tignes) so you won't have to get the bus as you will have to do in Chamonix and they have bigger and more connected ski areas if you are doing the on-piste course.
With the on-piste courses they generally 'harmonise' the groups on the first day so you should end up in a group of similar level skiers even if it might not be the one that you actually signed up for. People tend to have a habit of over/understating their skiing level when registering for the lessons.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
@Pinot11, I did the introduction to off piste skiing course in Chamonix with my son 12 years ago. I don’t suppose that it has changed too much since then.
In your circumstances I would not enrol on that course. Regardless of your experience on a snowboard, your ski technique is unlikely to be able to provide a sound basis (after just 2 weeks over 5 years) on which to build. For the off piste introductory course Action Outdoors advise that “You are at least 'advanced' level on piste and are confident to try new things. You should have a broad skill set of skiing techniques and are good in a wide range of conditions and different terrains”
Clearly no one here has seen you ski. Only you can judge whether the above really describes you after 12 days skiing.
Don’t rush it and build a strong foundation with instruction on piste would be my advice.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Thanks for everyone's replies, I really appreciate it. Also I realised saying a 'couple of weeks experience' could be interpreted as 2 weeks, sorry that wasn't the case. It's closer to 4+ weeks and I'll be going to Crans Montana again for 6 days before I take on a course.
@Gustavobs thanks for letting me know your on-piste course actually ended up involving off-piste. That's useful to know.
@ManiaMuse Thanks for such a comprehensive answer. I was rattled after watching a video of a guy on the intro course struggling down a very narrow and rocky couloir, with predominantly 'allez' as the guidance! Thanks for mentioning the other centres as well.
@HammondR Sorry I wasn't clear on my actual ski experience, but you raise some great points too.
Of course if anyone else on the forums has anything to add that would be great. But I really appreciate the 3 replies here. I definitely think I could get through the into off-piste course, however I think I really want to improve my technique first so I can attend an off-piste course knowing I have the essentials absolutely dialled, as any scrappiness will be magnified in an arena like Cham.
I have the week of the 17th Jan free, and looks like UCPA have on-piste courses in Cham and Tignes that week too, so definitely have options (Y)
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| Pinot11 wrote: |
I've done a couple of weeks on piste skiing over the last 5/6 years, having previously done about 6 weeks snowboarding before that. Snowboard I was happy on all piste grades and was going off the side of the piste as soon as there was fresh snow.
My current ski level (missed last year), is happy on all ski grade slopes, although more wary on icy blacks. I've been skiing Crans-Montana Switzerland the last few years, and happy with all the pistes there. I've not yet learned to 'carve'. Not much fresh snow when I've gone so no side piste or powder experience! |
I would be very surprised if you were a good enough skier to do the intro to off-piste, but maybe I’m wrong.
Read https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=159012 — if you’re not significantly better than the OP on that trip, I’d strongly recommend the piste course at this stage.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Thanks @JayRo, that's exactly the video and thread I was referring to! After watching the video and reading the comments last week it made me think twice. Mainly because a lot of posters were replying saying it was absolutely not appropriate for an intro course. And I don't know if all the Cham courses are like that, or OP just got unlucky!
Basically I know I could get through that, however it would be as one poster said 'survival skiing'. If the only advice is to keep going/ "allez", it's just going to compound bad habits, and I want to be technically strong to eventually be able to go ski touring. That's very much the end goal, to be happy climbing mountains and faces in the summer, and ski touring up AND down them in the winter!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Pinot11 wrote: |
| Mainly because a lot of posters were replying saying it was absolutely not appropriate for an intro course. And I don't know if all the Cham courses are like that, or OP just got unlucky! |
So I (& I’m not an instructor) think that that is completely appropriate for an intro course that is pitched at the level of a UCPA course, i.e. advanced/confirmé on piste. & that that is the kind of thing you should expect from a UCPA intro course. That’s not to say that there won’t be work on skills (the last UCPA advanced off-piste course I did, we saw the intro off-piste group learning to do (initially static) jump turns on Cascades in ValTho on the first afternoon), but I wouldn’t count on it being more accessible than that one (and nor should it be).
Either improve your skills on-piste, or if you’re prepared to spend a bit more then consider going with Snoworks, who start teaching off-piste skills to intermediates (their Level 4), or with Inside Out, who have off-piste courses aimed at early-advanced skiers (their Level 8 ).
Last edited by After all it is free  on Mon 19-01-26 11:32; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
UCPA on-piste courses are off-piste! The proportion increases as you go up the levels with beginner courses having very little and expert courses being predominantly off-piste.
The off-piste courses are absolutely hair-raising. On several occasions I was thinking "if I fall here, I'm literally dead", which took away from my enjoyment.
Book yourself on the intermediate on-piste. You'll get an intro to off-piste anyway, and if you're good, they'll move you up.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Argentiere might be a better base.
Saves travelling, and it's pretty laid back ime.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
Ps I found the people at UCPA to be very aware of different abilities, and dealing with it by moving students up and down.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
I suspect the big issue could be Chamonix.
Fairly sure the standard for off piste in Chamonix and Argentiere UCPA is somewhat higher than elsewhere.
Which leads to the standard being pushed because they have potentially 12 people with an instructor where 11 have done a couple of weeks off piste skiing...
If your goal is ski touring it might be worth looking at some of the half and half into to off piste/touring weeks. The skiing is likely easier than intro off piste because they have to allow for people skiing tired
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Thanks for the replies everyone, I appreciate it and I'm sure other viewers will too.
I'm currently on Chamonix doing a slightly shorter '5 day' intermediate course (on piste).
I may write up my experience later in case it helps anyone who is contemplating a similar thing in future.
@qwerty360 Are the half and half weeks with UCPA, or do you mean other companies? That sounds perfect, as I'm not someone who is looking to do pure freeride etc. I want to do the uphill and exploratory part of ski touring as much as the off-piste downhill aspect!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
