 Poster: A snowHead
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I want to talk about that FIS "downhill skier has priority" rule, because frequently it does not fit real-life situations on crowded slopes. In many cases, responsibility is shared, - it depends on visibility, crowding, speed differences, and how people are actually behaving. Just being downhill doesn’t magically protect you, and, to my knowledge, courts don’t treat it that way either.
Sure, uphill skiers are expected to anticipate reasonable movements of those below them. But nobody can predict sudden side turns, learners freaking out, or groups standing across most of the piste, especially in blind spots or during peak times. Unless someone is clearly going way too fast, the rule should work more like driving: you’re not automatically at fault if someone cuts across lanes or stops where no one could reasonably expect it.
And we’re basically at the point where tech can handle the real dangers. Cameras + AI can easily control speed, flag reckless skiers and link them to their ski pass ID for enforcement. So having a rule that dumps all responsibility on uphill skiers, like they’re supposed to see the future, just isn’t justified anymore.
What do you all think?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Nah, people don't have eyes in the back of their heads
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@aklos, Absolutely 100% incorrect. Assuming all skiers are and remain on the piste, the downhill skier always has priority. No excuses.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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looks like a troll post, 1st message is about a topic guaranteed to get discussion going
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@aklos, welcome to snowheads...its been done to death on here. Do a search
Let's not engage, people
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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In my so far short time skiing , I had read and believed the guy in front has priority, but omg there are some dickheads out there, absolutely gunning it and I would say getting deliberately too close to fellow skiers .
I park at the side of the slope waiting for Mrs pjk to catch up and the amount of idiots who ski within a foot or two is ridiculous.
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I think this from the Finnish ski.fi website makes things very clear.
"Skier: at least pay attention to these slope rules
Even if the rules seem boring, it's worth memorizing a few tips under your helmet. They will increase your safety and that of your fellow skiers. On average, it's more comfortable to leave the slope on your own feet than in an ambulance.
The recipe for a fun day skiing: be considerate of fellow skiers, follow the slope rules and enjoy the company of your ski buddies.
If the slope rules were always remembered and followed, the number of dangerous situations would be significantly reduced. Most accidents and near misses could be avoided if every skier paid attention to their fellow skiers and followed the slope rules.
Man is not an owl
An owl can see behind them, and a horse's field of vision is almost 360 degrees. Humans, on the other hand, can only see forward.
The human field of vision is narrow. At best, we can only see straight ahead and a small strip to the sides of our head. If our gaze is focused on an object, the field of vision is even narrower, tubular.
That's why a skier coming from behind always gives way on the slope, always.
The skier in front doesn't have to turn their head like an owl and move out of the way of the skiers who are going fast. The skier who is passing should give enough space to the slower skier. If the skier in front is a child or an insecure adult, it is worth giving even more space.
Turning requires skill, not diving straight in.
Yes, but plunging is prohibited by the rules of all slopes. In the rulebook, plunging does not refer to that form of competition, but to straight down. These bombs on the slopes force other skiers to transform into ever-vigilant owls and make desperate evasive moves.
The speed of a downhiller naturally increases throughout the downhill. The more speed you gain, the more skill it takes to stop and turn. The more speed you have, the greater the impact energy and the greater the risk of a broken knee, a sprained wrist, or a concussion.
A skier who skis is a danger to himself and especially to other skiers.
For the adventurous, it doesn't require any skill to descend straight. Gravity will take care of the downward flow.
The slope rules also apply to good skiers
Are you also an above-average calculator? That's great. Nine out of ten calculators answer in the affirmative – which means that half rate their skills as above average.
Overestimating your own abilities and taking risks is the biggest reason why so many accidents happen on the slopes. On the slopes, speeds easily exceed built-up speed limits and even reach highway speeds. When you lose control of your skis at that speed or a fellow skier suddenly jumps in front of you, your muscles, joints, bones and skull are in real danger. In the worst case, you will collide with someone smaller than you and even if your iron body and the fastest reactions in the West save you, the smaller skier may break their bones.
To be clear: a slope is not the right place to get big."
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
| Nah, people don't have eyes in the back of their heads |
They actually do have eyes to see if making large turns left or right is going to cross someone path. The reasonable expectations should work both ways.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| holidayloverxx wrote: |
@aklos, welcome to snowheads...its been done to death on here. Do a search
Let's not engage, people |
Thanks! I read a number of discussions over the past years as well as some court decisions. This rule is far from absolute.
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I got annihilated for saying similar on here years ago.
Whilst I do agree that downhill takes priority, I agree with OP’s point.
Downhill should have some responsibility when joining slopes, and it’s good practice to check uphill when stopping suddenly or deviating on a crowded piste. Everyone wants to avoid a crash so everyone should take partial responsibility.
Yes, it’s harder to see uphill when skiing down but don’t ignorantly ski without having some thought to what’s behind you.
90% of accidents do fall on the uphill skier but it’s fair to say that many people do stupid things when on the slopes.
If everyone controls their speed and is aware of their surroundings, adjusting accordingly, accidents don’t happen (as often).
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Just blame snowboarders
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@bezthespaniard, Man is not an owl nor a horse, though I'm sure someone will be along shortly to say "actually........." 
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You know it makes sense.
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| hang11 wrote: |
| Just blame snowboarders |
Wait, this was for my second post here 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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snowHeads in a FLAP!!! Someone said something wrong on the internet!!!
Forum duty w@nkers form up!!! 
Popcorn: check
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Poster: A snowHead
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Someone left the asylum door open again, they're all out tonight
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
Let's not engage, people
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This
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Beginners freaking is exactly what you should be anticipating.
The rule is good 95% of the time. Don't make sudden turns on flat narrow cat track and don't traverse at high speed in crowded areas where you could be just downhill of someone else but they have to little chance to avoid you. If you are behind obvious beginners on a cat track it's pretty annoying but the only really safe thing to do is to drop to their speed or if possible leave the piste to overtake them
If you have been skiing rhythmic turns down one side of the piste and want to swap sides it probably is prudent to check over your shoulder before launching into a hard carve across the piste but in a collision the uphill skier would still be mostly responsible
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| rambotion wrote: |
If you have been skiing rhythmic turns down one side of the piste and want to swap sides it probably is prudent to check over your shoulder before launching into a hard carve across the piste but in a collision the uphill skier would still be mostly responsible |
It does not seem that the real responsibility works like that, neither legally not practically. The uphill skiers are legally responsible for managing speed and trajectory in a way that avoids foreseeable collisions. This is far from being "automatically responsible". Especially nowadays, when pistes are overcrowded, and greedy unregulated resorts push more and more people on the slopes to compensate for the rapidly reducing skiing window.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Might eventually reach 100 posts 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Do I need snowchains?
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Interesting that the parent, not there at the time, was liable for damages awarded for the injury deemed to have resulted from her (minor) child’s skiing.
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Pole clicking absolves the uphill skier of responsibility.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@rob@rar, Horse?
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| thecramps wrote: |
| @rob@rar, Horse? |
A little bit, but I have been talking a lot today so it’s no surprise.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@rob@rar, I didn't know it had that effect. I must talk more.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@thecramps,
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I've always gone by FIS rule #1, takes precedence over all the others. Simples.
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Rule 1: Respect for others
A skier or snowboarder must behave in such a way that he or she does not endanger or
prejudice others.
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You know it makes sense.
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@Chaletbeauroc, Or, as they say in Finland, "the slope is not the place to get big."
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Origen wrote: |
| Quote: |
Let's not engage, people
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This |
You do not need to engage in this discussion, but people will inevitably have to engage with courts who may have a very different interpretation of the "legal responsibility" from what you state and try to persuade others.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@aklos, indeed but its been covered numerous times on this forum. Nothing new has been said. Do a search
I would hope people dealing with courts have lawyers to do the persuading and not relying on an Internet opinion forum
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| holidayloverxx wrote: |
@aklos, indeed but its been covered numerous times on this forum. Nothing new has been said. Do a search
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I actually looked at a number of discussions over the past years and still see a lot of conflicting opinions and people not understanding how the real responsibility is defined and by whom.
You may have also noticed in the first post, that the issue of this simplified responsibility approach is also connected to inability to properly police the slopes and define/enforce more relevant rules. With the current technology this becomes easier to resolve, reducing reliance on the downhill priority rule.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@aklos, that's the point...of course there are conflicting opinions, it's an opinion forum not a legal one. I doubt this thread will prove to be any different. I agree the slopes should be properly policed.
You talk about current technology....what are you selling?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| aklos wrote: |
| You may have also noticed in the first post, that the issue of this simplified responsibility approach is also connected to inability to properly police the slopes and define/enforce more relevant rules. With the current technology this becomes easier to resolve, reducing reliance on the downhill priority rule. |
What on earth does this mean??? What technology? Sure you can video an incident - and apportion blame afterwards. But how does that prevent incidents???
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The current technology can already identify risk behavior patterns of specific individuals, associate it with the ski pass and submit for human review to proceed with soft (warning, temporary pass blockage, mandatory training) or hard enforcement (fine, permanent ban, court proceedings). Preventing many incidents before they happen. No need to be so frustrated.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@holidayloverxx, to be fair, if nothing can be discussed on SH that has already been done to death, 90% of the general thread chat would cease immediately
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@Dr John, good point, well made
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But to throw in my 2p worth, as it’s a particular bug-bear of mine, I think a huge amount of grief can be saved by skiers and boarders throwing a quick glance over their shoulder when setting off or moving across the slope.
In many cases a collision might be the fault of the uphill skier, but that’s of little comfort when you’re laying in a hospital bed.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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When setting off, imho you should always check beforehand that you’re not going to impinge on other slope users. Even if you’re not bothered about others, for self preservation.
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FAQ
