 Poster: A snowHead
|
| James the Last wrote: |
| @KSH, and would you wear it shiny side out, or in? |
shiny side in for warmth
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| KSH wrote: |
| I carry a space blanket with me, in case of a lift getting stuck. It folds into a tiny size package which will easily fit in a pocket. |
Same. Never needed to use it but who knows if it could help me or someone. I fear that, as stated by someone else here, when a time comes I might forget I have it!
I have a memory of trying to wrestle with it on a chairlift, I don’t know if that’s genuine or my imagination.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| Orange200 wrote: |
is it always “white” or is it “several shades lighter than usual”?
|
The latter. There's no blood circulation but the tissue is still not actually frozen (yes I know I said that earlier) so it's not ice white, just all the redness removed. |
Thanks and thecramps. Yes I decided to google it; not great info but yes much paler. Also I found that rubbing with snow is now shown to be worsening rather than improving, and rubbing generally is a no-no. Odd how we can learn things as kids, from supposedly reliable sources, and find out 30y later that they were completely wrong 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
Three years ago in Zermatt the Klein Matterhorn cable car and thus link to Cervinia was closed - the attendants definitely said "too cold" but whether that was easier for them than saying anything else I'm not sure. At Trockener Steg the temperature display said -18 so that probably meant -24 or so at the top. I don't remember much wind but I was as cold as I've ever been in my life skiing back down into Zermatt. I found it too cold to ski despite multiple layers and even glove liners (which I have never had to use before).
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| Orange200 wrote: |
| Also I found that rubbing with snow is now shown to be worsening rather than improving, and rubbing generally is a no-no. Odd how we can learn things as kids, from supposedly reliable sources, and find out 30y later that they were completely wrong |
Never heard of that, but maybe it wasn't being suggested for frostnip, which is only gonna happen in quite extreme temperatures, whereas I certainly recall from when I was a kid (a lot more than 30 years ago) various conflicting advice for chillblains, immerse hands in warm water, do not immerse in warm water, to rub or not to rub, scratch the itchiness or not scratch the itchiness, etc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| KSH wrote: |
| James the Last wrote: |
| @KSH, and would you wear it shiny side out, or in? |
shiny side in for warmth |
Counterintuitively, it’s shiny side out, as that typically has lower emissivity. Not that it makes much difference, as the radiative reduction tends to be pretty low, in reality the blanket is mainly providing another layer of wind proofing. It can also be wrapped around multiple people to allow for a small extra gain.
However, if you’re a space blanket carrier, it’s worth replacing every year or 2, otherwise you might find that the limited durability of Mylar means you’re actually carrying a couple of dozen Mylar handkerchiefs rather than a blanket. Alternatively, for lower cost and most of the benefit, a thin polythene drop cloth or bin bag would achieve similar with better durability.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| KSH wrote: |
| James the Last wrote: |
| @KSH, and would you wear it shiny side out, or in? |
shiny side in for warmth |
It’s not that obvious. Matt side out will radiate more heat than shiny side out.
The world is divided on whether they are any more use than a plastic sheet. There’s a huge “they look good so they must work” and “there’s science behind the idea so it must be true”. Finding any science that agrees with this is a real challenge.
You’d quite possibly be as well off with a black bin bag with a hole cut in for your head. And potentially better off, as it wouldn’t have an open seam.
Sorry @Snowdave I see you had posted almost exactly the same. I did spend ages trawling the net whilst composing my post to see if anybody had come up with proof that they work, rather than just looking good. What they are good for is the purpose for which they were designed; keeping spacecraft cool by reflecting the sun’s heat.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I've got a bivy bag in my big pack. You can get one from Pieps for £75, or an unbranded one from Amazon for more like a fiver.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
@James the Last, 
I did wonder if a black bin bag would actually be better, because when it’s super cold in the alps, it’s usually a result of a blocking high, which means sunshine - and the IR absorption from a black bag would potentially exceed the radiative losses.
I did a bit of googling afterwards - backpackinglight has some quite detailed analysis, including measurements of IR emissivity. A point from the research on there is that there is a huge difference between blankets and it’s not obvious as a retail buyer whether you’re getting anything decent. The SOL one rated highly.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
When I worked in Andorra, the lift operators cut costs and had purchased cheaper fuel for the ski lifts…
One particularly cold spell resulted in the fuel freezing and complete shut down for anout 3 daus… gondolo included..
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
I wasn’t certain backpackinglight understood what he was doing. I think they’re snake oil. Marathon organisers use them because they have ‘space blanket’ written on the packet which appeals to the sort of person who runs marathons. Happy to be proved wrong, but I feel that if they actually worked there would be proper analysis somewhere.
I remember back in the day last time I researched this point (30 years ago?) they were regarded as useless on the grounds that radiation isn’t really the way you lose heat. This is surely particularly true if you’ve already got three jumpers and a ski jacket on.
I had wondered if the world had moved on. It doesn’t seem to have. No surprise!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| James the Last wrote: |
| I think they’re snake oil. Marathon organisers use them because they have ‘space blanket’ written on the packet which appeals to the sort of person who runs marathons. |
I agree they are oversold but I don’t think it’s quite as extreme as you’ve suggested- they are not without benefit, but that benefit is nothing to do with being shiny. In a skiing situation on a cold windy chairlift, they should help a little with conductive/connective losses just as a bin bag would. Post marathon, they are an effective vapour barrier and my guess is that the main effect is reducing evaporative losses from a warm, wet body. We also shouldn’t forget that the placebo effect is real 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Yes I agree. Sorry that this wasn’t clear: “That they are shiny is snake oil. A bin bag would be just as effective.”
So how effective is a bin bag on a ski lift when you’re already wearing three jumpers and a water- and wind- proof layer? Now your outer shell should be breathable, but if you’re cold the evaporation is going to be scant. Unless I guess you got very sweaty on the last run.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
Remember when we skied at minus 30c in Austria, instructors were escorting groups of small kids from one hut to the next, where they all sat in front of the fire with a small hot drink before braving it to the next hut. The instructors earned their money that day!
We were following a couple of young (10-12 yr old) girls when one crashed, losing all her kit including gloves, she was scuttling around retrieving stuff, but we had to stop her and get her gloves back on first - her hands had gone white-cold and lost function within a couple of minutes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
Have to say I've never - in 55 years - heard of lifts shutting due to cold 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
How odd. Now you have heard it.
In big white they shut the resort, but by the time it's that cold no one is there anyway. Best time to ride empty piste, and the squeaky slow snow thing is less bad on pisted snow.
In Finland (Helsinki) they didn't shut, but lifts were short surface, so not a risk. Most folk would do 1 run then re-heat indoors
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Got off a chairlift heading up towards La Grande Motte glacier from Tignes and the thermometer inside the lift station said -25 Celsius. It was -40 with wind chill.
We tried to sing Barbara Ann by the Beach Boys and our faces wouldn't work so we just dribbled. That's how I knew it was very cold.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
I thought they shut the lifts in really cold temps, not because they didn't work, but we didn't work. 
Never seen it happen.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
@phil_w, I haven't skied in the rockies all that often. Doesn't often get to -15C in Chamonix f'rinstance. And, indeed, that cold and no-one's out skiing.
@TopGooner,
See previous conversations re wind chill.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
It’s way worse for the liftys when it gets that cold - standing in it all day.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| under a new name wrote: |
@TopGooner,
See previous conversations re wind chill. |
On another thread, you mean? Can't see much here on this one, but I'm assuming you'll be pointing out the meaninglessness of quoting windchill as a temperature, which would only be even slightly accurate on exposed skin
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| under a new name wrote: |
| Have to say I've never - in 55 years - heard of lifts shutting due to cold |
Banff/Lake Louise in 2024, was -40. Everything shut down. It warmed up to -25, 2 or 3 lifts opened on Green/blues
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
Fernie, many years ago. Very still , no wind at all. No idea what the temp was but it was the only time I have ever been warmer stood still than when skiing. One of the three of us did get frost nip on his cheeks. We called it a day and went for beers!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Chaletbeauroc, yep.Exactly that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
I haven't seen lifts closed, but he coldest I have ever skied was in Jasper, when it was -29C at the base station. The lifties were making sure that nobody got on the lift unless their heads were fully covered (and the rest, but that would be normal). I was there with my (adult) daughter, who decided to stay in the lodge at the bottom while I went for a top to bottom run.
I made the mistake of allowing my buff to slip so there was half an inch of exposed skin between it and my goggles. When I got o the base lodge, my daughter said "Dad, your cheeks are white", then she poke the white bit, and it was hard. It took a couple of days before the were fully back to normal.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
When I was skiing about -25C, first thing is that feet in the boots betting too cold pretty quickly, that will depend how tight they are, we had to do caffe stop every 15-30 mins. Also, using mitts instead of gloves will help with hands getting cold as well. Good luck
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Got stuck on a lift for about ten minutes in minus 25 in an exposed spot in Whistler a few years ago and honestly very quickly felt like we were dying on the lift.
Went to the cafe immediately afterwards and had 20 minutes feeling like my lungs were frozen before I warmed up. Luckily my mate was a ski instructor there so we were already completely covered in masks/neck warmers etc for zero exposed skin, so no frostbite but still pretty scary.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
Er. I thought this pastime was supposed to be fun? Do you guys ski in pouring rain as well?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| ster wrote: |
| Er. I thought this pastime was supposed to be fun? Do you guys ski in pouring rain as well? |
Not unless I’m being paid.
It’s rare in the Alps that it gets as cold as some of the very temperatures being discussed in this thread, and the effects of very low temperatures can be ameliorated by appropriate skiwear and use of mountain restaurants. Very high wind speeds is a much more frequent problem, either shutting down the infrastructure or making the experience miserable.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
Cold temperatures are much rarer than they used to be 50 years ago. Wind speeds do seem to be higher and rain is now more common.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| ster wrote: |
| Er. I thought this pastime was supposed to be fun? ? |
It does worry me a bit. I used to ski heavily overdressed and never felt cold. Now I learned to ski in much less clothing. If I pay a lot to go to Canada, and there’s a period of -25C, what will I do? Be determined to “get my money’s worth” or admit that this is nature and I just won’t enjoy it? (I don’t normally book hotels with full pool and spa, which is the obvious alternative).
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
I’m thinking back to my season in Banff 13 years ago (13 years , Jesus) , I’m sure Sunshine Village lifts closed when temps fell to -27c . Although I skied Lake Louise much colder than that the same season.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| ster wrote: |
| Er. I thought this pastime was supposed to be fun? Do you guys ski in pouring rain as well? |
Don’t you?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
2 years ago we saw -29C on a lift housing near Tignes first thing in the morning and the lifts and everyone else were fine. On the exposed lifts I wished I had an extra layer on top of the 4 I had on 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
I had a night patrolling a couple of years ago when it got down to -80*(ish)F with wind chill, but the lifts kept turning. I know the lift dept were keeping an eagle eye on how they were behaving. We were very keen to avoid doing a lift evac in those temps.
Strong winds are the biggest challenge to lifts. And icing. If the cables ice up, it's game over.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| ster wrote: |
| Er. I thought this pastime was supposed to be fun? Do you guys ski in pouring rain as well? |
Yes, I ALWAYS ski unless unable to do so
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Orange200, skiing in Andorra all the time is very rarely really cold (as you know). I’ve worn a light shell outer jacket for years and rarely felt cold but each year I find myself adding an extra layer under. On Tuesday, it was probably as cold as it’s been since I’ve lived here. My body felt warm enough but toes and finger tips were starting to feel it.
‘Not so Jnr’ is thinking of heading to Canada next season so we’d probably visit. I’d need to rethink my insulation strategy!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
Skied at Tremblant in -40. One run down lift up. And into the restaurant at the top to thaw out. Think I managed about 4 runs in the day. At that temperature no matter how much you wear keeping feet warm was the problem. As an aside they were filming Ivana Trumps movie ‘For Love Alone’. Funny seeing signs for famous Austrian runs and seeing actors skiing in ‘60’s vintage clothes and equipment.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
A friend in Lake Louise once stated that they closed when it got to -50. She didn't say C or F ( )
Presumed that meant they were open at - 49 ...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
