How cold does it need to be for lifts to close?

A snowHead

The boy is off to Tignes (Val Claret) on Sunday. The forecast for next week sees some days at -20. How cold does it need to be for the lifts to close?

A snowHead

Colder than that. It's more a function of wind than temperature - I've skied as low as -35C in Canada and no problems with the lifts. And certainly at -20 at >3000m on the top of Tignes.

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@OTS, the only time I've had lifts close was -38 in Big White..closed as we got off.

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@holidayloverxx, Shocked

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-28 Deg at top of Cervinia. Fortunately the sun was shining.

All lifts open, but the ski instructor was ensuring as much skin as possible was covered (buffs) and checking for frostbite.

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-34 in Val T and they closed due to high winds not the temperature.

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I’ve skied down to about -30 in France and Austria, no suggestion of lift closures due to low temperatures at that point. On one occasion when it was that cold the wind got really bad so they closed the lifts for that reason; I’ve never been so happy to see the lifts stop running. Frost nip can happen very quickly at those temperatures so keep an eye on your skiing partners.

After all it is free

Thanks all, that's encouraging. Just need to make sure he understands the risks around frostbite.

Read somewhere that steel becomes brittle at -40°c so lifts close near that temp. Think it came up in a discussion about ice jacking breaking a Canadian lift pylon.

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Have skied in -24 and with some wind chill it was very very cold. Lots of stops for hot drinks, no skiing alone and as above watch out for frost nip. X

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Whether lifts running or not, you'd not find me on them in some of those low temperatures. Shocked

Minus 15 was my limit, I'm afraid. Important to have the right base layers in those temperatures. Remind the boy, @OTS - no cotton T shirts.

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Remind them that it’s very easy to get casually hypothermic at low temperatures, especially if it’s very sunny and you don’t realise how cold your core is getting. By casually, I mean that you enjoy the skiing so much you don’t take any breaks indoors and so you’re breathing that -20°C air into your lungs while your outer body might be quite warm in the sun. This happened to me once and when I eventually did go into a warm café, it hit me like a brick wall - I could barely breathe, and it took at least 40 minutes to get back to normal. It felt like there was a physical block of ice in my chest at first.

Another thing to suggest is that no one in his group walks out or back alone on a night out. People won’t necessarily be as warmly dressed as when skiing and such low temperatures don’t give you much time to survive if you have a fall or are knocked out etc. this happened to a friend of my son, alone walking back who tripped and fell in an alley - no one found him for hours, by which time it was too late. Very tragic.

One sure sign to look out for is first signs of frost bite on the extremities, even if you think you're warm.

I've seen a mates nose go white, and he was nigh on unaware as we were skinning in a severe windchill, also earlobes.

As has been mentioned it's when you combine strong winds along with freezing temps that problems happen, and not just to the body, but by then the lifts are often closed when wind speeds are gusting over a set limit.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

-15 is the point where it goes properly unpleasant for me
-28 in Arabba (on shBB pre-arrival day) was proper unpleasant. I think it was 5 of us that day? maybe 6? we all made sure that nobody went on a chair alone. that long chair back from bottom of Marmolada was the worst. Made the misery chair seem positively balmy. That is the only day I've seen Ronald choose a downlift over a ski run. might not have had a choice anyway, since the bindings probably froze up while we spent half the afternoon round the fireplace in the restaurant at top of PV.

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

On the BB a few years ago it was -26 c and everything was fine.

Wind is usually the thing that stops lifts.

If it gets that cold make sure your diesel doesn’t freeze in the hire car. We defrosted ours in princessArabba’s dads garage.

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Problem when it get properly cold most skis start sticking to the snow without a change of wax.

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Main problem with alpine skiing in -10°C or less is the periods of inactivity sitting on lifts that gradually drive down your core temperature. Longer breaks indoors are more than nice. With ski touring or cross country the main problem is sweat management, especially if you stop and picnic for lunch. When skiing cross country we take a change of top or two, socks and our down jackets. Sweaty damp tops are changed for dry ones, dry socks too if necessary, core temp is kept up with the down jackets and then a fresh pair of gloves put on if the previous ones are even slightly damp from sweat. In -30°C ish temps in Finland once, I nearly ended up in proper trouble with frostbite in my hands after I forgot to pack spare gloves and had to ski in my dampish gloves. Big mistake. Fortunately we had a spare hat and two buffs that I wrapped around my hands without the damp gloves and that was just about sufficient to get me back to the cabin, but I was in agony and some small white patches had started to form. I was very lucky. I now take three pairs of gloves, just to be sure.

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When we were skiing Marmot Basin, Jasper, at -35C, the main issue was icing up of goggles. We had enough, and good enough, kit to keep warm for much longer than we were able to stay out. No matter how much we tried our breath would eventually manage to find a way a way to the goggles and would instantly freeze. Even removing gloves to wipe with a finger was no good as it would refreeze instantly before you had any chance to wipe of the moisture. So spare goggles would have been a good idea, but we didn't have any.

We had every last bit of skin covered, but apparently by lunchtime that day at least a dozen people had been sent off the mountain with frost-nip on their faces, according to the waitress in the lodge who'd just been chatting with her mate at the bottom station. Thankfully all the lodges in Canada have big heated areas to rewarm in, free to all, so you're not obliged to buy a drink or food every time. Which was about every half an hour.

They didn't actually bother with lift tickets that day - we had pre-bought vouchers for six days, thinking we might have a day off, but in the end we skied all seven days without paying for the extra one.

But yeah, frostnip is a real danger, so make sure you have face mask/scarf/covering of your choice, so no part of your face is exposed. For anyone not familiar with it, it's when the epidermis has actually started to freeze, and is usually not noticed by the victim but can be spotted by anyone else as a white area of skin. They absolutely must remove gloves and place warm hand over affected area ASAP, otherwise it will quickly turn into frostbite. If addressed quickly enough you'll just have a little area of reddening, like a very mild burn, for a day or so, but if you leave it even for five minutes you risk blistering and worse. Always check each others faces every time you stop.

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Lifts in revelstoke were closed when I was there last year at neg 32.

Definitely needed a couple of extra layers on.

After all it is free

Excellent posts above.

On a Christmas trip to Lake Louise, instructors said to us always wear sufficient clothing for the rarity of the chairlifts breaking down for a while. Shortly before our trip a confident lad went up not doing that on a sunny day, the lifts stopped for a technical issue and there was a tragedy.

@Snow&skifan, Yeah, the trip I mentioned was our second time in Canada in Dec/Jan, so we were aware; the previous one I recall one day at LL it got as high as -15C. I swear I saw some folk out in shorts and T-shirts.

I don't remember all the layers I was wearing, but I do know that amongst other things were a tough warm one-piece suit as well as another jacket over the top. Paying particular attention, of course, to ensuring not compressing the lower layers too much, which will negate the effects of extra layers in some cases.

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I carry a space blanket with me, in case of a lift getting stuck. It folds into a tiny size package which will easily fit in a pocket.

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Goggle icing can also be a weather effect. Last week we had a freezing thing which did that and left a little creme brulé effect on the snow.

Even with good wax, below minus 20 squeaky snow is a thing...

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Thanks again all. Orders have been issued and extra layers added to pack. It doesn't look like the wind is going to be an issue, so fingers crossed it wont be too bad.

Modern skilifts can operate from +40c to -40c.

They are remarkably resilient.

Some lifts in Canada, such as Banff, are rumored to stay open until a feels-like temperature of -60c (-75f).

Have skied several times in -30c to -40c, in Canada, US, and France.

The key is to keep every inch of flesh covered up.

Leave no skin exposed.

Zero.

Any exposure gets frosted.

That means wearing a neckwarmer and full-face skimask.

You know it makes sense.

@Whitegold,

-60C? rolling eyes

Don't think so.

@Bones, is correct, for the reason of safety if it stops. About -30C to -35C is the cutoff depending on the lift type - gondola can run at lower temps than chairs, due to wind chill.
We were at a comp at Kicking horse and had several days of watching the thermometer to see if it would get warmer than the cutoff so they could run, which it didn't for a few days, and the lifts were closed.
It was -45C at one point, which is _really_ cold! Skullie

When it was only -25C-ish, I was on the mountain taking venue photos for line selection; it was brutal taking a glove off (mittens with merino liners and warmers for that weather) kept the liners on but still pretty chilly

The local pro-tip is to use physio tape on your cheeks and nose cut to fit - they all turn up with the peices cut to shape and ready to go

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A snowHead

All these comments about looking for telltale white patches; is that still valid for people with non-white skin? My wife is Oriental. Her sister married an Italian so the children can be quite dark after a few days of sun. Is it always “white” or is it “several shades lighter than usual”?

I used to ski happily in Banff in -20C, last time I couldn’t handle -10C. I’d like to claim age but I think the truth is I’ve now got used to skiing with half the layers I had previously and that just showed me their limits, my modem gear isn’t as super technical as I’d imagined.

A snowHead

@stuarth, ski racers wear physio tape

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@Blackblade, thank you, myth busted!
@stuarth, thanks.

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@Orange200, I am racially white, but my skin isn't actually white, more pink-ish I'd say, and the patches on my hands and finger ends were actually white.

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In very cold conditions stick to Gondolas if possible. If the chairlift stops you may quickly succumb to hypothermia. At best it will be very unpleasant. A jacket hood that will fit over a helmet will help. Carrying a small two person group shelter in your rucsac that you can pull over yourself and your companion might be very welcome in the event of a long stoppage.

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-35° plus wind chill in VT, we went over to Orelle and I think the top of the ridge was pushing -50° with the wind chill, was just me and my mate on the Grand Fond up

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After all it is free

My top tip for very cold temps is to dry your boot liners every night to keep their insulation effective.

My big toes got frost bitten while digging snow holes in Tignes for a couple of hours in -20°C temps. The ski locker of our accommodation was an unheated basement garage and my boots weren’t drying out over night. On the day, I was thinking my toes are cold, then they were ok (read frozen and numb), then they were cold again after lunch when they had thawed out a bit!

Since then I take my boot liners out every night and bring them up to my room to dry out.

So keep your insulating items dry!

Ps. My toes still get cold really quick 15 years later!

Daughter did a season in Lapland. They have it sussed, wee huts with fires going and furs layed out dotted around the hill.
She’s now in Canada, where it gets just as cold but they have much less opportunity to escape the cold.
Take breaks, warm up frequently.

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@KSH, and would you wear it shiny side out, or in?

Help!!

How cold does it need to be for lifts to close?

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