 Poster: A snowHead
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Burns are a particularly terrible injury
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This keeps preying on my mind. Some of the "survivors" and those who love them must be going through hell, hour after hour.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| PisteOffice wrote: |
Just had a message from my friend and his daughter’s friend who moved to Switzerland is currently missing after the fire.
I’m not a religious man, but the family who are religious have asked for prayers in the hope of good news. I fear the news won’t be good.
The girls name is Charlotte. I believe she is 15 or 16 years old. |
That's awful, Ori. I have a teenage daughter too, so to hear Charlotte's name and age and that she's currently missing has left me in pieces.
It's parents' worst nightmare when teenagers start branching out on their own and you're not always there to protect them.
I think there will be lots of prayers for her safe return and to help family cope & find support if she doesn't.
I really do hope your worst fears aren't realised 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The video on the BBC news page of a young lad trying to put the flames out with a jacket, as everyone stood around laughing and filming, no idea of how things were going south at a terrifying rate.
Awful
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@Frosty the Snowman, 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| luigi wrote: |
I guess any one of them lacking and this wouldn't be the tragedy it became, but certainly the first two which are in the hands of the authorities and their certification of this venue would have mitigated any poor decisions of the occupants of the basement and the ensuing tragic consequences. |
All disasters have a series of events leading up to them; any one of which, if removed from the chain, prevents the disaster.
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
The video on the BBC news page of a young lad trying to put the flames out with a jacket, as everyone stood around laughing and filming, no idea of how things were going south at a terrifying rate.
Awful |
Fair play to that lad for trying to do something. Here's hoping he got out.
There's an appalling video of people outside standing in the way of the doors as people try to flee, all to get a video of the events.
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All disasters are deeply tragic. This one hits different. Could have been anyone of us, or our kids. How many underground bars that are packed to the rafters have we all been in. So terribly tragic.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| PrimroseAndBlue wrote: |
| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
The video on the BBC news page of a young lad trying to put the flames out with a jacket, as everyone stood around laughing and filming, no idea of how things were going south at a terrifying rate.
Awful |
Fair play to that lad for trying to do something. Here's hoping he got out.
There's an appalling video of people outside standing in the way of the doors as people try to flee, all to get a video of the events. |
The Bystander Effect is becoming something more than has been previously documented, one film director and cinematographer feels it has become more profound - a desire to capture disaster for promotion and a distancing from immediate reality. I have noticed when being confronted by road traffic accidents my reaction is to make sure no further issues are arising such as fire or further collision, to provide immediate medical assistance and make sure emergency services are on their way - whereas others just stand and start filming. This is exactly what happened this week on the narrow Alpine road to Nax - crazy young local speeding and cutting corners only to heavily impact an oncoming car with two elderly people in it.
The Crans fire made me look up the latest medical guidance on helping those with severe burns - 20 mins saturation with cold but not icy water. That would have difficult to access there apart from bottled water in the adjacent - but closed - supermarket and the apartments in the building of which the bar is a part….
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| PrimroseAndBlue wrote: |
| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
The video on the BBC news page of a young lad trying to put the flames out with a jacket, as everyone stood around laughing and filming, no idea of how things were going south at a terrifying rate.
Awful |
Fair play to that lad for trying to do something. Here's hoping he got out. |
Bro made it worse.
He was fanning the flames.
Building fires always erupt in seconds.
A tiny spark becomes an inferno in less than 1 minute.
As soon as you see a lick of flame, get out.
Never rely on civilians to put out a fire.
They are dumb as a rock.
Get out.
Call the pros, on 911, 112, 999, etc.
Let them deal with it.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| valais2 wrote: |
The Crans fire made me look up the latest medical guidance on helping those with severe burns - 20 mins saturation with cold but not icy water. That would have difficult to access there apart from bottled water in the adjacent - but closed - supermarket and the apartments in the building of which the bar is a part…. |
My sister had a kitchen accident with 2 pans of boiling water and gravy falling on her legs as a child. Thankfully my Mum was a trained nurse and knew it needed cold water to draw the heat out. She was put straight in the bath with cold tap running. Loose clothing was cut away. It did help as she was only left with small amount of scarring on her ankle where her sock couldn't be easily removed and held in the heat for longer.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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My son pulled a tea pot of scalding water onto himself in a cafe. Straight under the closest tap ,the caretakers mop room if I remember, under running cold water for at least ten minutes waiting for the ambulance as the burn was bigger than fist sized then wrapped in cling film (it was in a Tesco) fir the transfer to the ambulance to prevent airborne infection. Off to hospital.
I wouldn’t have like to have faced something of this scale though, would have been horrible scenes.
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I just nipped out for something from the supermarket and took what a thought was a route to avoid passing the scene. Un fortunatly I got it wrong and came out right in the middle of a very sombre crowd where all the tributes are being left. A lot of young people obviously struggling to process it all. Quite upsetting.
I'm not usually moved by such things but a young woman sat on the curb, hugging her dog got to me... 
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You know it makes sense.
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That is unfortunately her that they are talking about.
She was friends with my best mates daughter. She was working as a baby sitter in the resort.
More on it here. I fear the worst as all the survivors had been identified.
https://apple.news/AOTm_qiMHSaGbbVtkBwl7sQ
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| luigi wrote: |
| PisteOffice wrote: |
Just had a message from my friend and his daughter’s friend who moved to Switzerland is currently missing after the fire.
I’m not a religious man, but the family who are religious have asked for prayers in the hope of good news. I fear the news won’t be good.
The girls name is Charlotte. I believe she is 15 or 16 years old. |
That's awful, Ori. I have a teenage daughter too, so to hear Charlotte's name and age and that she's currently missing has left me in pieces.
It's parents' worst nightmare when teenagers start branching out on their own and you're not always there to protect them.
I think there will be lots of prayers for her safe return and to help family cope & find support if she doesn't.
I really do hope your worst fears aren't realised |
As someone has mentioned here already. This seems to hit us differently in the ski community. We seem to identify with it more.
My son is currently on a ski season in Canada. Of course he was out for New Year’s Eve. Was I worried about him? Like a parent when their child is out, but would I worry about such a catastrophic end? Didn’t even cross my mind.
I’m worried about my son injuring himself not enjoying himself in a bar.
I’m actually devastated for everyone.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@adithorp, totally understand. Just people hugging the ones they love. Be that a person or their dog. When you see that, it just captured a moment that resonated with you.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| PisteOffice wrote: |
That is unfortunately her that they are talking about.
She was friends with my best mates daughter. She was working as a baby sitter in the resort.
More on it here. I fear the worst as all the survivors had been identified.
https://apple.news/AOTm_qiMHSaGbbVtkBwl7sQ |
I'm so sorry Ori.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Owlette, thanks. It’s not me I’m worried for.
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Apparently she is missing with her dad too. Gets worse.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hi @valais2,
I didnt know where the Constellation was, but I must have walked right past it a couple of years ago, going back from the Zero-Dix to the bus stop.
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| DrLawn wrote: |
Hi @valais2,
I didnt know where the Constellation was, but I must have walked right past it a couple of years ago, going back from the Zero-Dix to the bus stop. |
Yes that’s exactly it … very unassuming building.
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@Dravot, completely agree. I've been a seasonaire in Chamonix amongst other places over the years. Could just as easily been me or my friends
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Devastating really, always touches closer when you can relate to the activity
Two things I can't really understand from the videos, when the people are filming the flames it doesn't look too packed, it looks like you could get out quite easily? Maybe there were more people elsewhere sitting down who didn't realise it had started who were the ones who got caught?
The second thing is how the door out to the street appears to have been blocked with people, I can understand the stairs down below but the door up above which seems to have been into an open room seems strange that people would get caught there again
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Got me thinking about that bar in Ischgl where they set fire to the roof as part of the show. I blummin love that place, but it'll make me think if I was somewhere else and saw the roof catch fire from them sparklers that it'd be similarly expected, well controlled and not a threat.
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I've made it clear to the kids tonight. You don't film, you run.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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As per my earlier post, I've just seen a picture of the eggbox type foam on the ceiling as it caught fire, it's beyond belief that anyone could have specified and fitted this stuff, not only does it burn easily, it gives off extremely noxious & toxic fumes as it burns, cyanide & others.
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Many , may years ago I set myself on fire. It was the night Judith Kepple won Who wants to be a Millionaire to give you an idea of how long ago it was.
Lesson 1.- Do not throw flammable liquids on a fire that you think is out trying to get it going quickly.
The resulting fireball covered my upperbody I was instantly burned . Think Beneton F1 pit lane accident , it was like that. Chest to head, inside my ears, up my nose, fortunatly not mouth/ throat.
It was bad, ambo , blue lights , they were fantastic. I immersed my head in the bathroom sink with cold water running over my head. The ambo guys then effectively water boarded me with a beach towel and more bottles of water . This saved me from permanent disfiguration. I do have scars inside my ears and loss of nerve feeling on the end of my nose.
The hospital were also great ( Royal Surrey ). It was busy A&E as usual. Consults with the burns specialists up in London. In the end very little could be done. Not bad enough for a graft fortunatly , saved by the cold water soaking . So wrapped up like a peice of Gammon in a special surgical mesh dressing and dosed up with pain killers. Discharged after a few hours with more dressings to change every 12 hours not alot else the could do.
Flame Burns are nasty , the fat under your skin gets really hot and holds the heat . It takes alot of liquid to reduce the temperature quickly. The skin dries out and burns through really fast , the smell apparently is terrible. I dont remember that, I was in shock. Took months to heal up and I burn in the sun quicker in some affected areas. I was sober, had enough first aid and common sense and the ability to react instantly and correctly to a bad accident.
I really feel for all the people involved , its supposed to be fun filled night with great expectations for the future . Not a tagic end to a year that will haunt hundreds of people for the rest of their lives. One of the worst things was the stares from people. Mates were great and kept me moving and motivated by taking the wee wee in a nice way, but out in public wearing a dressing with a bright red raw face got some strange reactions.
I bet we will see laws put in place now in Switzerland with fire suppression systems , flame retardent materials , fire exit sizing and locations, numbers of patrons allowed in etc. A terrible end to the year and hopefully lessons are learned and indoor pyrotechnics , and flammable materials banned . It costs next to nothing to pink plasterboard a ceiling . A few hundred quid and all those people would be out skiing today, so sad, just a tragic waste of young lives and their poor parents who hold such high hopes for their kids to have it snatched away so suddenly.
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You know it makes sense.
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| tangowaggon wrote: |
| As per my earlier post, I've just seen a picture of the eggbox type foam on the ceiling as it caught fire, it's beyond belief that anyone could have specified and fitted this stuff, not only does it burn easily, it gives off extremely noxious & toxic fumes as it burns, cyanide & others. |
Saw it too, what a horrific sight. In one of the videos you can see it melting and dripping down 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Wikipaedia acoustic foam apparently now includes CM fire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_foam
The list is a litany of similar fires stretching back in time
A lot of product on sale on line with no mention of treatment with fire retardents
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Poster: A snowHead
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More details about the construction of the room are appearing on X. Copying some photos from various posts:
1. The sound absorption material was also applied to the walls and panelled over
2. The sound absorption was fixed directly to the wool insulation on the ceiling
3. The main exit door which I believe also served as the only emergency exit opened inwards. The push handles are outside and hinges inside.
It’s also been mentioned that the venue was licensed as a cafe / restaurant and not a nightclub which meant they had a lower level of regulation around number if exits and number of people per m2 in the venue at any one time. The owner claims they’ve had 3 inspections in 10 years!
There are so many questions to be answered around complicate to building and “licensing” regs, inspection and turning blind eyes. Quoting another who is in disbelief that this can happen in a country where you get fined for exceeding the speed limit by 5kph.
None of this would have happened if they were not waving these bottle candles around to show off purchases of vintage champagne and big bottles on social media.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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None of this would have happened if they were not waving these bottle candles around to show off purchases of vintage champagne and big bottles on social media.
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Can't believe you wrote that, I really can't.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
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None of this would have happened if they were not waving these bottle candles around to show off purchases of vintage champagne and big bottles on social media.
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Can't believe you wrote that, I really can't. |
Me neither
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
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None of this would have happened if they were not waving these bottle candles around to show off purchases of vintage champagne and big bottles on social media.
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Can't believe you wrote that, I really can't. |
It’s called victim blaming
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
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None of this would have happened if they were not waving these bottle candles around to show off purchases of vintage champagne and big bottles on social media.
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Can't believe you wrote that, I really can't. |
You may have misunderstood but I am trying to say the show off factor of mixing fire with highly flammable material is what triggered the disaster. The context of my post is to highlight the lax building practices.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Ozboy wrote: |
It’s also been mentioned that the venue was licensed as a cafe / restaurant and not a nightclub which meant they had a lower level of regulation around number if exits and number of people per m2 in the venue at any one time. The owner claims they’ve had 3 inspections in 10 years!
There are so many questions to be answered around complicate to building and “licensing” regs, inspection and turning blind eyes. |
This may well turn out to be the main factor
The number of inspections is irrelevant. The owner would have been well aware of his restriction, and had deliberately ignored them.
He's taken advantage of the infrequent inspections and of the fact that he would never get a visit late in the evening for financial gain.
I'd be amazed if he didn't get prosecuted for the deaths.
In the UK that might come under Corporate manslaughter, but (checked online) Gross negligence manslaughter by the individual management.
Sure the Swiss will have a similar law?
This isn't the only multiple death fire in a night club in recent years to be caused by fireworks.
Surely, it's time for them to be completely banned??
-Something you'd think EU regulators might have looked at by now?
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Sat 3-01-26 12:18; edited 1 time in total
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@Ozboy, it's perfectly normal and not showy-off at all to see the New Year in with fizz. And who on earth said anything about 'vintage'? The verified photos don't reveal the labels. I appreciate that might not have been the main purpose of your post, but it was just gratuitous, unevidenced and nasty.
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Your use of "show off" and "vintage champagne" puts it squarely in the victim-blaming category, @Ozboy.
It's not yet time for pointing fingers and "learning lessons". It's time for condolences and respect.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Crossed posts
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As was correctly pointed out earlier in the thread...
| jabuzzard wrote: |
| All disasters have a series of events leading up to them; any one of which, if removed from the chain, prevents the disaster. |
There are bars all over the Alps (and elsewhere) where staff use pyrotechnics and mess around with fire. It is very unwise - but not rare - and these "sparklers" look like smaller version of the things ("gerbs") used in your local panto (with appropriate safety precautions).
If the ceiling was left as concrete - there would have been nothing to combust. If the ceiling had been lined with anything other than highly flammable foam - the consequences would have been less severe. If the bar staff had a fire extinguisher close to hand - the consequences would likely have been less severe. If there had been more exits - the consequences would likely have been less severe. If there had been sprinklers - maybe the consequences would have been less severe.
It seems that many factors lined up to make this incident so devastating. It's so very sad.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Sat 3-01-26 12:53; edited 1 time in total
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