 Poster: A snowHead
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From TGR:
https://www.tetongravity.com/epic-pass-liability-how-one-snowboarders-collision-case-could-change-everything/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=post&utm_campaign=epic-liability-11-29&utm_id=Media%20News&utm_content=epic-liability-11-29&fbclid=IwdGRjcAObxtxjbGNrA5vF-mV4dG4DYWVtAjExAHNydGMGYXBwX2lkDDM1MDY4NTUzMTcyOAABHtAN_Xcr05Huja6LdwPvtkJ119Dthh-IRZVMiL-1EMSAugK4i3dvO8mgDWOd_aem_3gckmanFx685iX6spWBnrQ
A pivotal case stemming from a December 2020 collision at Breckenridge Ski Resort is now making its way to the Colorado Supreme Court. The legal fight involves snowboarder John Litterer, who was injured after a collision with a resort employee operating a snowmobile on a designated trail. This is not just a standard ski accident case. Instead, it questions the very foundation of the modern ski industry: the liability waiver you sign when purchasing a lift ticket or an Epic Pass.
For years, Colorado's ski areas have heavily relied on liability waivers to protect them from almost all negligence claims. These waivers are designed to make it so guests assume all risks, including collisions with resort vehicles like snowmobiles. Initially, the Summit County District Court and the Colorado Court of Appeals ruled in favor of Vail Resorts, the owner of Breckenridge. They determined that the waiver Litterer signed, including an updated one for a later season, released the resort from liability.
However, the plaintiff's attorneys argue that these waivers are "overly broad" and shouldn't provide blanket immunity. They cite a recent, critical 2024 Colorado Supreme Court ruling in the Miller v. Crested Butte case. This is a key development. That prior ruling established that liability waivers cannot eliminate claims based on a resort's failure to adhere to specific state safety statutes, such as the Colorado Passenger Tramway Safety Act.
It'll be interesting to see what the Colorado Supreme Court decides. If they decide the resort is liable that could result in the resorts raising the price of their lift tickets even higher....
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I believe this has always the case in the UK for a consumer, you can be asked to sign whatever waiver but it cannot opt you out of statutory protections no matter what the waiver says.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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"it questions the very foundation of the modern ski industry in the USA"
FIFY
Has feck all to do with anything anywhere else, probably not even outside CO.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Alastair Pink wrote: |
However, the plaintiff's attorneys argue that these waivers are "overly broad" and shouldn't provide blanket immunity. They cite a recent, critical 2024 Colorado Supreme Court ruling in the Miller v. Crested Butte case. This is a key development. That prior ruling established that liability waivers cannot eliminate claims based on a resort's failure to adhere to specific state safety statutes, such as the Colorado Passenger Tramway Safety Act.
It'll be interesting to see what the Colorado Supreme Court decides. If they decide the resort is liable that could result in the resorts raising the price of their lift tickets even higher.... |
So, if the resort can’t get away from following state safety status, they will raise prices? 
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Tue 2-12-25 21:08; edited 2 times in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| ster wrote: |
| I believe this has always the case in the UK for a consumer, you can be asked to sign whatever waiver but it cannot opt you out of statutory protections no matter what the waiver says. |
Death or injury through negligence, IIRC.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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woah higher season pass prices on their way soon .... can they get higher? Oh yes.
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They (Vail Resorts) have bought assets that they are sweating to the max. They really don't give a toss about skiers or the holiday industry. They are just in it for the money, so, of course, lift prices will be increased (in Europe as well).
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Pretty sure that vail and co would be charging as much as they feel the market can stand for season passes regardless of whether or not they can weasel out of liability claims.
The outcome of this case won’t make any difference outside of NA.
And really if they are using machinery and it’s hurting people the shareholders probably should be taking a bath over it, and management should be doing something about it. No excuses for injuring people like that.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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If I like to bet on stocks ... MTN is a buy right now !
I really dislike what they did (and will continue doing) to ski market in the US and beyond and try to avoid their product at all costs ... ethical reasoning aside - I do think that they are about to rake in a lot of money 
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Haute-Savoie and I believe France in general banned skidoos and rat-tracks on the piste during opening hours years ago. The only time you see them now is carrying a doctor or lift-repair tech, and the pisteurs are supposed to close the run first. So no liability exposure to insure against here, whatever happens in the US.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And yet there are places in Austria where you get piste bashers operating on live pistes.
In particular one I have seen personally is when skiing the blue "home" run in Ellmau. They run piste bashers up that an hour or so before closing, as it has got so chewed up during the day.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
So no liability exposure to insure against here
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Is that really true? Running piste basher during the day isn't the only potential hazard. I remember piste bashers rumbling around during the day in Austria, years ago. Gave me the willies, and I'm not easily spooked.
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| shep wrote: |
| Haute-Savoie and I believe France in general banned skidoos and rat-tracks on the piste during opening hours years ago. The only time you see them now is carrying a doctor or lift-repair tech, and the pisteurs are supposed to close the run first. So no liability exposure to insure against here, whatever happens in the US. |
I have followed behind a piste basher down a piste in the 3Vs and the piste was open. It was driving down one side, I assume to return to base after basing some higher up pistes but was late due to lots of avy security work happening before the pistes could be bashed.
It was very carefully chaperoned by a couple of pisteurs on skis in font and behind as well as some pisteurs who we're at any junctions in the piste. A bit like the police running a rolling road closure I suppose. But it was clearly running on an open piste.
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You know it makes sense.
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| shep wrote: |
| Haute-Savoie and I believe France in general banned skidoos and rat-tracks on the piste during opening hours years ago. The only time you see them now is carrying a doctor or lift-repair tech, and the pisteurs are supposed to close the run first. So no liability exposure to insure against here, whatever happens in the US. |
Don't think I've skied a single day in France (or anywhere) without seeing a skidoo on an open piste.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Skidoos and piste bashers are frequently on the piste in Austria during opening hours, and the most warning you get is a flashy light on the top, sometimes a siren. Patrol do close the area for helicopters though.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| adithorp wrote: |
| shep wrote: |
| Haute-Savoie and I believe France in general banned skidoos and rat-tracks on the piste during opening hours years ago. The only time you see them now is carrying a doctor or lift-repair tech, and the pisteurs are supposed to close the run first. So no liability exposure to insure against here, whatever happens in the US. |
Don't think I've skied a single day in France (or anywhere) without seeing a skidoo on an open piste. |
Same for me. I give them a wide berth, or stop.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Wow! US law is so different from that in the UK and, I suspect, Europe. In the UK, let's say you sign waiver when entering a trampoline park then if the operators are negligent then they are negligent no matter what you have signed and you have a case for damages (flip out Chester for example).
I suppose that if the matting on a dry slope has risen to such an extent that the operator should have known about it and done something to make it safe. If you then trip over it and sustain an injury you have a case against the dry slope operator for negligence whether or not you have signed a waiver absolving the slope of all liabilities. This of course assumes that you have some responsibity and followed all rules and acted in a sensible manner but the waiver itself is irrelevent.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Skidoos are frequently used to transport casualties - I don't see how it can be practical to close pistes every time.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I commented on this in the SCGB thread where @Phantom Phil posted it a couple of days ago - just copy it here for clarity.
| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| Yes, and I hope they abide by the precedent, which ruled that a waiver cannot "eliminate claims based on a resort's failure to adhere to specific state safety statutes". You cannot indemnify someone against breaking the law. It would seem likely that a ski-snowmobile collision would be the fault of the latter, so if they were driving dangerously then presumably that would go against the safety statutes that they mention. |
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I often see skidoos transporting injured skiers, or with pisteurs going back to the first aid station. Never seen them close the piste to do so though. Rarely see a piste basher though I recall seeing them in the distant past. If they have been unable to return to the piste bashe garage before opening time as they were still bashing pistes in bad weather, they are sometimes parked up.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Hells Bells wrote: |
| I often see skidoos transporting injured skiers, or with pisteurs going back to the first aid station. Never seen them close the piste to do so though. Rarely see a piste basher though I recall seeing them in the distant past. If they have been unable to return to the piste bashe garage before opening time as they were still bashing pistes in bad weather, they are sometimes parked up. |
THe ones I have seen in Austria haven't been "unable to return to the garage before opening" type, they have been mid-late afternoon, re-pisteing heavily tracked pistes ready for people returning at the end of the day.
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