An Australian company is preparing to roll out a series of giant, rotating ski barrels designed to make the experience of carving endless fresh snow available to city folk without a long drive. We talk to Snowtunnel co-founder and CEO Scott Kessler.
"How's indoor skiing normally done? Big buildings, huge temperature controlled environments and chillers, as big a slope as possible, and full scale lifts," says Kessler over a phone call. "Large amounts of land, typically a bit further out from key urban centers. High CAPEX."
Hence the idea of the Snowtunnel - a smaller ski training facility built around a rotating barrel that puts skiers and snowboarders inside an endless slope where the snow's perpetually freshly groomed, while asking far less in terms of land requirements and upfront costs.
Which is not to say these snowy hamster wheels will be small – each massive cylinder has a 12.5-m (41-ft) diameter and extends some 16 m (52.5 ft) across - roughly as wide as an average ski run, Kessler tells me, so you'll still need a facility big enough to enclose something roughly the size of a four-story apartment block.
You use the power of the rotation," says Kessler. "The tunnel will typically be spinning towards you as you stand in it. And as you'd normally do in any technique of skiing or snowboarding, you use your edge to maneuver side to side, width-wise in the tunnel. It's not too dissimilar to riding a wave on a surfboard."
The rotating tunnels will each have a driver, who'll control the effective ground speed for people in the tunnel. That'll start out at below walking pace for real newbies (who can also hang onto a "specially designed apparatus" that comes through the tunnel for beginner lessons) – but the tunnel can be spun up as quick as 8-9 rpm, representing a ground speed over 50 km/h (31 mph) for experienced snow bunnies.
Thoughts? I know the snowHeads forum is powered by hamsters running in hamster wheels , but extending the concept to humans on skis or snowboards in a giant rotating snow covered wheel might be a step too far....
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Sounds a hugely depressing experience compared to the real thing.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I can see some merit in it, and one of the main complaints about snowdomes is the short run. It's definitely not the same thing, but I could see myself heading to one reasonably often if it were nearby.
Be good to use to work on technique so the ski trip can focus on the skiing, eating and drinking
I can't quite envisage the geometry. The circumference would be less than 38 metres and less than a quarter of that would be skiable, and unless skiers moved at the exact speed of the wheel, wouldn't the angle of the slope change rapidly? Would be like a mouse skiing on corrugated iron?
Moving "side to side" across the slope (they mention carving) would be chaotic if more than one skier.
The geometry of something like an escalator (constant angle of descent) would seem more practical.
But in either case, how does the snow get "groomed"? And not fall off?
Am I being spectacularly thick?
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Origen wrote:
But in either case, how does the snow get "groomed"? And not fall off?
Am I being spectacularly thick?
Not spectacularly thick, just spectacularly lazy
You need to read the article. It’s explained there.
@abc, The article doesn't really explain it, just states that how it works is secret.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
"So... How do they keep it from falling on your head as the barrel rotates? "There's a bit of secret sauce in that," he grins. "Let's say this: the rotating tunnel in itself has a layer applied that allows us to give the snow some structure. We use real snow from snow guns. The structure holds the snow, and depending on the moisture levels, we're able to get a surface that can sit at or above the substrate surface"
So sort of a bit wet, a bit grippy. I would have guessed that there would be an inner half tube over the top to assist with the grooming and keeping it in place, but he mentions a gantry to protect people. Sounds like there would only be one or two people on it at a time, much like the treadmill dryslopes, but as it's continuous skiing a lot of people would probably get tired fairly quickly.
After all it is free
After all it is free
That part of it is the least of my objections. What about the geometry? a row of skiers all going straight down in parallel, or one skier carving across the slope and hoping that whoever's driving the wheel keeps the speed constant. A wheel with an interior diameter of 12 metres has a "usable" slope length of about 8 metres?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Good luck getting up after a tumble.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Indeed. And that 8 metre useable slope length is optimistic - it would include an "almost flat" and an "almost vertical" part
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
A wheel with a circumference of less than 38 metres at 9 RPM, will cover 342 metres in a minute, which is according to my admittedly very poor mathematical skills, something nearer 20 km/hour, not 50.
I must be going badly wrong somewhere. Maybe I SHOULD read the article!!
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Isn't this just a worse version of the rolling carpet/conveyor belt systems?
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
The video at the end of the piece shows a single skier using the wheel. Skiing the width of it, doing figure of eight turns, due to the spin of the wheel raising them back up the ‘slope’. They are pretty much turning as they move uphill before turning as they move downhill. I’d imagine that is a weird (and very unrealistic) sensation. Pretty expensive if only one slope user at a time I’d imagine.
I wouldn’t mind a shot just for the experience, but the downhill view would likely make me dizzy after any length of time.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
For some reason this article made me think of this..
@dode, yes, I imagine motion sickness could be a problem for people using the rotating wheel....
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:
"It's not too dissimilar to riding a wave on a surfboard."
So perhaps not "skiing" but "ski surfing"?
Alastair Pink wrote:
@dode, yes, I imagine motion sickness could be a problem for people using the rotating wheel....
Nah. Can't be worse than skiing in a whiteout.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Origen wrote:
A wheel with a circumference of less than 38 metres at 9 RPM, will cover 342 metres in a minute, which is according to my admittedly very poor mathematical skills, something nearer 20 km/hour, not 50.
I must be going badly wrong somewhere. Maybe I SHOULD read the article!!
Looks about right.
60 kmh = 1000 mtrs/min and gives 30 kmh = 500 mtrs/min. Proportional adjustment to 342 mtr/min = 20.54 kmh.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
It is what it is - an infinity halfpipe, but with no lip. That's a big bit of kit to allow maybe 3 or 4 people a relatively mediocre experience.
In the words of the late Bob Dole "What the hell is this - Some kind of tube?"
That's a big bit of kit to allow maybe 3 or 4 people a relatively mediocre experience.
Skiers would have to be spat out the far end pretty quickly? There could be no question of coming back. The scope for injuries seems impressive - if one person misjudged their ability to ski uphill and was tumbled back to the bottom they'd meet the next skier coming along - very shortly after. Big heap of bodies being tumbled out of the far end.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Richard_Sideways wrote:
That's a big bit of kit to allow maybe 3 or 4 people a relatively mediocre experience.
Costs to set up are going to be a lot higher than for the rolling carpet set up, plus some operational issues (like harder to instruct beginers I'd imagine and should someone fall the whole thing will take more stopping) and cant see how you could have more than one person in at a time. Some of the carpets have failed to make money with lower overheads. Can't see it lasting if it ever gets built.
@Richard_Sideways, I use that quote far too often in life.
I know the video shows the AI guy going up and back, but if there is a plan for something for beginners to hold on to then surely the idea is that people are perpendicular to the tube, stood side by side, while the thing rotates. So if you've got 3 people then each of them has about a 4m strip to play with.
I'm still intrigued, not convinced it will happen but also not writing off the idea while it's still on paper.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
SnoodyMcFlude wrote:
, ...stood side by side, while the thing rotates. So if you've got 3 people then each of them has about a 4m strip to play with.
And if one of them falls, they and their kit will be tumbled in the bottom until an attendant hits the STOP! button ...and then others fall flat on their faces.
After all it is free
After all it is free
@adithorp, what better way to learn stacked balance than being subjected to the occasional faceplant?
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
I’m with @SnoodyMcFlude, I can see possibilities, but also potential issues that need to be worked out.
I also don’t see these in the same light of a frig, as a quick fix to actual skiing. Because the skiers aren’t “going” anywhere, it’s best suited for working on techniques rather than just the randomly sliding about. For example, the more vertical part of the wheel can be used by more advanced skiers to practice body position in steep terrains under a coach’s direction.
adithorp wrote:
SnoodyMcFlude wrote:
, ...stood side by side, while the thing rotates. So if you've got 3 people then each of them has about a 4m strip to play with.
And if one of them falls, they and their kit will be tumbled in the bottom until an attendant hits the STOP! button ...and then others fall flat on their faces.
The attendant can easily retrieve fallen skiers (and their gear) situated on the outside “lane”. Just make the center position an “advanced lane”?
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
This looks massively more complicated and expensive to build and run (grooming, Refrigeration, snow making - more things to maintain and to potentially go wrong) compared to the maxxtracks type machines (former Skiplex / Chelski etc.) , but with presumably similar limitations to number of people on the 'slope' at the same time due to available skiing space - which means you have an undesirable staff:customer ratio. It's hard to see how they are going to make the economics add up. Who is the potential market I wonder?
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@Tubaski, you are surely the ideal SnowHead to try it
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
dode wrote:
@Tubaski, you are surely the ideal SnowHead to try it
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
As a snowboarder I can see how that would really suck when I want to have a sit down in the middle of the run to smoke a fattie.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@hang11, you'd just need to sit on your board and point it downhill. And relax.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
hang11 wrote:
As a snowboarder I can see how that would really suck when I want to have a sit down in the middle of the run to smoke a fattie.
(To be frank, as another who live where there's real snow, I'm not quite qualified to comment on any indoor skiing facility either)
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
hang11 wrote:
As a snowboarder I can see how that would really suck when I want to have a sit down in the middle of the run to smoke a fattie.
So it does have some pros?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
ster wrote:
hang11 wrote:
As a snowboarder I can see how that would really suck when I want to have a sit down in the middle of the run to smoke a fattie.
So it does have some pros?
Could leave a reasonably long skid mark if it gets scary
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Tubaski, you've missed the one big difference to the conveyor belt option though, it's actually 'snow'. That will be a much bigger draw.in itself, just like a fridge is a bigger draw than a dryslope.
Is it? How will they stop it falling off at the top?
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
SnoodyMcFlude wrote:
@Tubaski, you've missed the one big difference to the conveyor belt option though, it's actually 'snow'. That will be a much bigger draw.in itself, just like a fridge is a bigger draw than a dryslope.
Well you might be right, but it being snow will need way more energy to make and keep cold (as opposed to squirting a bit of water on the plastic), and technical challenge of if not falling off.
They reckon they are going to groom it on every revolution, but overgroomed old snow just turns to sugar...
Is it? How will they stop it falling off at the top?
Elementary. Just a matter of it rotating fast enough....
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@adithorp, magic and being wet, innit, already discussed. Given the circles that this thread is going in, I reckon you lot will feel right at home on it!
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
, but extending the concept to humans on skis or snowboards in a giant rotating snow covered wheel might be a step too far.... 
