 Poster: A snowHead
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The title says it really. I remember Jonpim being slightly sceptical about the difference in different skis to the average skier.
There are quite a few threads on what skis to demo but few on how to demo the ski.
Most years I have skied on my own skis bought largely by what the salesman has told me. Last year for the first couple of trips I made it was more convenient to hire, so I had the experience of trying different skis though I did not demo different skis on the same trip.
1st trip I rented a pair of xscreams probably a bit shorter than ideal as it was what they had in the shop.
2nd trip I rented a pair of Scott Aztec Pros
3rd and 4th trip I used my own skis which are a pair of Volant’s (though I am not sure which ones) that I had picked up cheap the previous year when my old skis had given out.
Each time I tried a new pair my feelings were pretty similar. I did not like them at first and found them difficult to ski on, then after a couple of days as I got used to them I liked them more particularly the Aztecs.
As a fairly typical skier I can hack my way down most reasonable stuff but my technique is not very pretty, I am wondering how long should you demo a pair of skis for before you find whether you like them or not?
Is it worth the typical skier demoing at all?
For contrast my wife who skis at a slightly lower standard than myself is adamant that she likes or dislikes a ski after a couple of runs.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I'd say a day, unless you really hate them. But then could you be bothered to return them to the village where most would be hired from.
I don't see the point of doing just a couple of runs on them at all
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I can usually tell quite quickly. I have my own skis so I don't demo that much. However, I hired some in Whistler last season and knew pretty quickly that I wasn't too excited by them. My view didn't change. During that time, I demoed some Prior Originals for 2 hours. 3 runs off Whislter peak was enough to confirm that these were excellent skis for me. I didn't particularly want the Rossi B4s back after that
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T Bar, Most useful post? I reakon!
I think the first rule, or question has to be: Do you have well fitting boots with foot beds?
If yes, continue to test centre. If no, get your boots fitted first.
If you are going to test skis, maybe to say, try a wide ski having only ever skied narrow ones. Then you will still feel the instant benefit, however if your testing skis to buy one, you will struggle to test all the aspects of the ski and therefore not be able to feel the more subtle differences bewteen skis in the same range.
Try to be open minded. You may have had more sucsess in the past with a particular brand of ski and therefore favour it, but try something new. Try the exotic brands: Stockli, Extreme, Armada, 4 frnt, Movement.
Each day will bring different conditions: Fatigue, Elation, Fear, Cold, Icey. Be aware, these will all have dramatic effects on your skiing abilities and therefore may lead you into thing the ski is at fault.
Make sure the skis are in good condition. Ask for the ski to be de-burred and a quick run over the waxer will help your enjoyment of the ski.
You have nothing to loose.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Arno,
Yes, for a very good ski that suited your skiing, you'd know it straight away. Most of my picks are just a question of how good, as it has been a while since I picked a ski that was not suitable. Notables were the Stockli snake in just over 180. This twin tip skied way too short for me... very turney and light on its feet for an 80mm ski - helped by the fat that is was too short. I'd like to try its bigger brother this year and as soon as I get back to Engelberg, I will... The Stockli test centre there always have their skis in VGC..as you'd expect really, and its not as expensive as normal hire, shops, I feel. And don't get me started on the B2..although that demo was about 5 years ago.... I could not wait to bin them for the Intuitiv 74 which was a classic IMV...
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| Arno wrote: |
| I can usually tell quite quickly. I have my own skis so I don't demo that much. However, I hired some in Whistler last season and knew pretty quickly that I wasn't too excited by them. My view didn't change. During that time, I demoed some Prior Originals for 2 hours. 3 runs off Whislter peak was enough to confirm that these were excellent skis for me. I didn't particularly want the Rossi B4s back after that |
You didn't get the Originals did you? - I'd definitely love to try these but maybe need a trip to Whistler to make it possible. I've got a Prior board & it is far superior to most mass market brands.
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T Bar, It would seem that your wife is more sensitive to a ski than you are. For a large number of people it will make no difference at all what they ski on. Some of the remarks from the tests by some of the skiers have seemed to me (getting in trouble here) a bit fanciful, having seen the person ski. If you don't notice the difference then don't bother!
However, if you are demoing skis then you should ski the same run on all the different pairs of skis doing the same type of turns in the same place each time. That way you can instantly feel the difference. If you are unable to make different types of turn then you're probably asting your time anyway. 2 or 3 short runs is enough for me.
Trying out a pair of skis is different though. In the other threads we are talking about demo days or evenings, so you won't have time to ski around for ages.
At the EOSB last year a number of people pi**ed off for the morning/day with a pair of skis when everyone had been told that the demo day was just that. They could go back to try skis they liked later in the week. This meant that some of the skis were not available to demo at all! 
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JT, probably true. On the other hand, I have a reasonable idea of what I will like so I don't often try something too far away from that - I wasn't too hopeful about the B4 but there wasn't any choice for hire (as opposed to demo). Maybe I should push the boat out more!
fatbob, I didn't buy the Priors. The main reason being that I own a perfectly good pair of skis which are pretty similar (the Dynastar Legend Pros). Once I wear those out, the Priors will definitely be in the running as replacements. Similar dimensions to the LPs but a little bit more forgiving - which is good - you do need to be on your game to get the best out of the LPs. They shared the surprisingly good edge hold (Rossis were very bad for this) and nice lively feel from the wood core. Plus you could just tell they were a beautifully made ski. Saw some Doughboys, by the way which looked a bit weird, frankly. Going that big, I think I'd rather try something with a reverse sidecut. Sport-conrad seem to be stocking Prior skis, by the way. Not sure of the benefits of buying them off the shelf versus having them made from scratch to your requirements at the Prior factory though
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Thank you all for the feedback.
SMALLZOOKEEPER,
My boots were fitted and fit pretty well(Lange LS10? I can no longer read the logo) but I dispensed with the custom footbed for the original footbed as they were more comfortable. I may try a few exotic brands next time I try.
easiski, It is not so much that I cannot tell any diference as that the new ski automatically seems to feel worse than the one I have got used to untill I have had at least one and probably two to three days on it. I seem to need to adjust to a ski.
I tend to want a ski that is good for off piste conditions particularly heavy snow as this is where I need most assistance at my level. Problem is that as conditions tend not to be constant that I am not sure whether it is the ski, my skiing on the day or the conditions that are making the difference.
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I must admit I can usually tell within a couple of turns whether I'm going to like a pair of skis or not.
What sometimes then surprises is capability in more extreme conditions - crud, bumps, etc. I.e. I loved my 9Xs from get go on piste but was very surprised and pleased at how well they cope with crud, powder, etc.
Whereas my old 7SKs were exactly what I wanted on ice, but really not a lot of fun off piste at all. No surprises there then!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Arno, Benefits of buying direct from the factory is basically that you get to spec the topsheet. they used to make alpine raceboards will choice of flex and probably you can do the same with their skis but I wouldn't swear to it.
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You know it makes sense.
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My view T Bar is that most people can't tell the difference between skis when they're starting out skiing - but that nearly everyone I know has reached the point where they can tell the difference. Though even I spotted that the difference between "ordinary" skis and the pair of Volkl race skis some prat gave me to ski on once 
Mrs PhillipStanton was like that. She couldn't tell the difference for years and then went out on a pair of skis that just "clicked with her". She broke into an ear to ear smile that lasted all day.
Having tried the approach of doing half day or all day demos, I agree with Arno and David Murdoch, that, if you can tell the difference, then you'll know more or less instantly. So, for me, there's no point trogging around all day on a ski that you don't like. I'd prefer to spend a focussed half day or day trying skis and taking them back quickly - than being on a run with skis I don't like or trust.
If you can then I'd suggest looking for a demo day somewhere. We did one in Morzine at the beginning of last year whre you could do circuits around one particular lift and associated runs. I reckon it was by far the best way of demoing - if you hate the ski you can give it back quickly. And if you don't then you can do a couple of runs. The ski techs at these things are ruthlessly efficient - so changeover was really quick and anyone determined enough could have tried 15 or 20 pairs of skis.
The obvious problem with these types of things is that you've got the snow you've got. But you can then go on to do an all day demo to see how you get on with the ski in other conditions.
easiski's observation is a good one. If it's taking you a few days to get used to a ski then you're chaning your technique for the ski - rather than finding a ski that suits you. In which case there's nothing to be worried about - because you will be able to eventually.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Sorry bit confused here... why do you need to test skis when you can read about them in magazines???
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Poster: A snowHead
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parlor, To find ones you like - rather than ones that are supposed to be good in the opinion of ski journalists.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Latchigo, thanks for clearing that up... 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| easiski wrote: |
| Some of the remarks from the tests by some of the skiers have seemed to me (getting in trouble here) a bit fanciful, having seen the person ski. |
Now you've got me worried I've overtalked myself! Look, just expect the worst of me at the PSB then you can only be pleasantly surprised 
All I can say is in my limited experience some skis click from the first run and some don't and you don't know without trying several, and it doesn't always follow what should click on paper.
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I was talking about this to others at the recent tests. I'm sure that my technique (using that phrase loosely) has evolved so that I get the best performance out of the skis I'm on the most.
Each brand, and even model, of ski will have different characteristics. This may mean that they don't react to my input as I expect, so I don't like them as much as they don't deem to work as well as my own skis. This would certainly explain a lot of the brand loyalty we see.
I know I didn't like any of the skis at the test as much as my own. However this could also be down to the "tune", or lack thereof, as well.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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eng_ch, Don't worry!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Have you ever demoed a ski, gotten an impression, skied it again anyway some time later and been completely and pleasantly surprised?
(I have)
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comprex, sorry, I must admit that I haven't - unless the ski has been taken from a poor tune to a good one in between.
Amplifying that, one of the skis I most wished I'd skied on in good shape were a pair of my then boss's Atomic Arc Bionic GS's in (IIRC) 205cm (circa 1984 maybe??) - metallic red anyway - the "red sleds".
He'd trashed them to the point that the under foot bases were worn to the core about 2 feet both sides and about half an inch in and the edges were held in with rivets (which tended to drag in softer snow).
But on the right snow they held such a sweet carve...
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comprex, I was the other way round with RX8's.
Tried them twice now. First time I thought they were superb, but felt just OK the next time.
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| David Murdoch wrote: |
But on the right snow they held such a sweet carve... |
And you found that snow and checked. I'm usually at a far smaller hill so conditions don't vary quite enough.
For me, it's always the quiet ones that are the most surprising, for good or bad: the "damper" a ski, the less reliable my soft snow impression is.
Rossi 9X, Volant Genesis, recent K2s, quite a few older Rossis were like that.
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comprex, in the two weeks or so I used them I looked out for that kind of snow all the time! IIRC what they really liked was the soft powder scraped off to the side of the piste by everyone else.
I was only using them because conditions were so bad that the only things the hire shop would let us use were c. 1950. I did have a few days on a pair of wooden Rossi 175s somethings. Precious little soft snow to be had at that point!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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David Murdoch, I had a pair of those - factory issue 207s! they were too much for me, and after dislocating my shoulder I sold them! The fastest skis in the world at the time - even standing still they felt fast.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Well my then boss is a significantly larger chap than I. I'm sure they were good for my skiing!
Have you noticed that Atomic now do a second range of FIS race skis aimed at lighter blokes and women? Finally their reputation has caught up with them. I recall loathing a pair of ARC SLs in 1990 that apparently had been designed for Tomba. I just knew I wasn't heavy enough to use them. Yeuch!
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David Murdoch, Didn't know that - interesting.
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You know it makes sense.
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It appears from Al's ski barn that this years LT:12 and ST:12 are "lighterweight" but still FIS compliant versions of the GS:12 and SL:12 - whereas the LT:11 and ST:11 of last year were detuned versions.
Unless I'm mis-interpreting from two different websites!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| David Murdoch wrote: |
| It appears from Al's ski barn that this years LT:12 and ST:12 are "lighterweight" but still FIS compliant versions of the GS:12 and SL:12 - whereas the LT:11 and ST:11 of last year were detuned versions. |
They haven't changed.
The "race" and "detuned" versions were available last year as well.
The "race" versions are only FIS compliant for women.
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Poster: A snowHead
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rjs, Ahhh! So "Al's Ski Barn" site is slightly misleading...!!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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David Murdoch, I oversimplified a bit, the race LT:12 would be FIS legal for a guy in a 183.
The skis might also be good for a heavy Children II boy.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| David Murdoch wrote: |
| ......Have you noticed that Atomic now do a second range of FIS race skis aimed at lighter blokes and women? Finally their reputation has caught up with them. I recall loathing a pair of ARC SLs in 1990 that apparently had been designed for Tomba. I just knew I wasn't heavy enough to use them. Yeuch! |
I've always known that the key to expert skiing is..........beer & pies
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
I've always known that the key to expert skiing is..........beer & pies
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Wahay, I'm well on the way to being an expert skier
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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My problem is not beer (as that's plentiful, thank the beer gods) but pies. Ever since the Americans started eating them all, you can't get them round here for love nor money.
Invade Iraq for oil? That;s just more Bush/Blair lies. It was Mr Hussein's finest halal Scotch Pies that the septics were really after.
I mean look at the evidence!
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I found the demo at the EoSB interesting. There were one or two sets of skis that really suited the conditions, such as the Ninthwards Nines that I tried, which I loved right from the start, and there were others that I found more difficult to ski on than my B2s, but more rewarding when I worked them harder, but other than that I'm not sure that I was able to tell a huge difference between a lot of them other than some I liked, others I wasn't so keen on.
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comprex, Actually, one ski that I did change my mind about was last year's B4. Took them out in very variable conditions on the Grands Montets late last season. They did exactly as expected in the lovely dry powdery stuff up top and then started to impress as one cranked up the knots.
As we descended I became increasingly impressed as we got into rain and crud. They not only made it (sort of) fun, but again, you could basically direct them onwards at full chat with no problems. Pretty much handled everything I could throw at them (including mushy bumps) with aplomb.
Very, very impressed.
So, desperate to try the Stoeckli DP Pros if I can find a pair next year!!
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David Murdoch, stoeckli DP Pros are available to hire in La Grave
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Kramer, I thought you found the Ninthwards too soft for you - I loved them. 
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David Murdoch, Have a pair here for you to try/buy, ask for Raphael.
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FAQ
