 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well if you take what they do in N America they sweat the assets by trying to get the maximum throughput of visitors while nickel and diming all ancilliaries and screwing workers over. Overal enshittification of the experience.
Season pass prices are low but day/week passes are jacked up high to exploit casual or non advance planned visitors.
I guess Laax Flims has looked at Andermatt and Crans Montana and said we don't fancy that. Though don't know whether Vail have really applied all their existing model there. For starters I imagine employment rights are very different in CH to US.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Ryunis, Have you skied in North America recently?
I'm not saying that globally it's a bad experience (the actual skiing can be fantastic), but there are many aspects where Europe generally wins hands down.
And it's all to do with the business model.
Typically, esp. in Vail resorts (and the other one), the company owns everything. The (only) ski school, all the rental shops, all the bars and restaurants - at least on the mountain, etc. Resulting in the usual output of a monopoly.
Comparing and contrasting with e.g. almost any European resort where just about everyone's* independent and although that then means a spectrum of quality, it allows for excellence.
* in some cases even the lifts, which can prove problematic 
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| under a new name wrote: |
@Ryunis, Have you skied in North America recently?
I'm not saying that globally it's a bad experience (the actual skiing can be fantastic), but there are many aspects where Europe generally wins hands down.
And it's all to do with the business model.
Typically, esp. in Vail resorts (and the other one), the company owns everything. The (only) ski school, all the rental shops, all the bars and restaurants - at least on the mountain, etc. Resulting in the usual output of a monopoly.
Comparing and contrasting with e.g. almost any European resort where just about everyone's* independent and although that then means a spectrum of quality, it allows for excellence.
* in some cases even the lifts, which can prove problematic |
No ive only done N America once and that was whistler jn 2016. I completely agree though. Much of the charm of skiing would be lost if independents were taken out of the game. Saying that though, I thought the skiing itself was not as good as Europe. Considering whistlerB is the largest N American resort, it still felt small.compared to what im used to in europe. Apart from the peak to creek anyway
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Ryunis, yeah, agreed, the whole point of WB is off piste, IME. Which is amazing, but not for everyone.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| @Ryunis, yeah, agreed, the whole point of WB is off piste, IME. Which is amazing, but not for everyone. |
Yeah at the time I couldn't afford a guide and didnt have local knowledge so couldn't really take advantage of what id there. Im sure its amazing but, having done my seasons in L3Vs 2012 and 2013, I just know im never going to top those off piste experiences as I cant replicate the local connections (knowledge) ski conditions, skill and, quite frankly, balls(!) I had back then.
I do remember going right to the very top of, I think it was Blackcombe side, and doing some stuff off the side and it was great, but it wasnt extreme
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| Ryunis wrote: |
| Yeah at the time I couldn't afford a guide and didnt have local knowledge so couldn't really take advantage of what id there. |
Sorry, that’s ignorance speaking.
Whistler off piste doesn’t require a guide as all inbound off piste are fully avi controlled. And a vast majority of routes are well listed.
I’n not even sure there’s any “guide” you can hire even if you could “afford” one. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| abc wrote: |
| Ryunis wrote: |
| Yeah at the time I couldn't afford a guide and didnt have local knowledge so couldn't really take advantage of what id there. |
Sorry, that’s ignorance speaking.
Whistler off piste doesn’t require a guide as all inbound off piste are fully avi controlled. And a vast majority of routes are well listed.
I’n not even sure there’s any “guide” you can hire even if you could “afford” one. |
It's not. When youve done some of the backcountry skiing I have, you need local knowledge to show you where is safe/not safe, great/not great and hiking routes to access it. Im not talking about a few bumps next to the piste. A very quick search on reddit just now showed a price of 650CAD per day.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@adithorp, if queue in that that video isn't enough to deter anyone ever going to WB I really don't know what is. Completely absurd.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The peak chair often doesnt open early but the terrain it accesses is good enough that people will wait for it. There's probably no more people in that queue than many in France. They're just more civilised about it and less packed into a scrum. Personally I'd go elsewhere on the mountain (where it'll be quiet) until the queue dissipated but then I'm not good enough to be competing for those lines anyway.
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Yeah inwouldnt be doing something like that unless someone showed me the best route to get there and out from there. There are hidden cliffs and all sorts of features you need to know about before going off exploring on your own. Its not just about avalanches
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You know it makes sense.
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Speaking of Whistler specifically, the local (BC, Canada) skiers have a much more favorable view of the Vail ownership than other mountains owned by Vail.
And unlike other Vail resorts in the US, Whistler does have independent ski schools (Extremely Canadian) and tons of independent ski hire outfits in the village. None of them owned by Vail.
I don't know if that's because it's in Canada rather than in the US. But if so, then it speaks to Vail's ability to operate in Europe in a different way than Vail mountains in the US. It may not be comparable at all.
That said, the municipality of Film/Laxx may have a strong motivation to not sell to "foreign" corporation regardless how it was perceived to be the operating model. This way, they're free to enter partnership with any pacts of their own choosing. God forbid, they may even become a "partner" resort of Alterra, or Vail. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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@abc, I would easily imagine it is because it's in Canada? But I know nothing about Canadian employment or anti-trust laws.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Ryunis wrote: |
| abc wrote: |
| Ryunis wrote: |
Yeah inwouldnt be doing something like that unless someone showed me the best route to get there and out from there. There are hidden cliffs and all sorts of features you need to know about before going off exploring on your own. Its not just about avalanches |
It's right next to the piste!
If you can't figure out a line in clear view of the lift, better come up with the funds to "afford" a guide. |
Thanks for the advice. That was my original point. I couldn't afford a guide. |
But you missed my point. Those lines are not "hidden" at all!
And there're sufficient amount of those not-at-all-"hidden" lines all over Whistler and Blackcomb
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| abc wrote: |
| Ryunis wrote: |
| Yeah at the time I couldn't afford a guide and didnt have local knowledge so couldn't really take advantage of what id there. |
Sorry, that’s ignorance speaking.
Whistler off piste doesn’t require a guide as all inbound off piste are fully avi controlled. And a vast majority of routes are well listed.
I’n not even sure there’s any “guide” you can hire even if you could “afford” one. |
Absolutely this. There's a guidebook which you can buy online that has more lines than you can ski in a 2 week trip. But even so, there is an incredible amount of easy accessed off piste where you can view it all from lifts or pistes. A lot of the piste map and signposted "runs" around the resort are "off-piste" (open bowls, glades, chutes, simply never pisted runs).
You would have to be trying really hard (or just completely clueless) to not find some good off piste even on your own solo with no info.
| Quote: |
Speaking of Whistler specifically, the local (BC, Canada) skiers have a much more favorable view of the Vail ownership than other mountains owned by Vail.
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I have friends at Whistler and most have a favourable view of vail. Simply undercutting the pre Vail season pass prices and offering a pass that means they can visit a number of other resorts for "free" is a good way to win over locals! They say the village is a bit busier, but it's not really felt on the mountain.
Personally I know a lot of people that have done very well out of vail/iKON as it's made skiing much cheaper, and offers the opportunity to visit multiple resorts. These people are doing 100+ days and more at the ski bum end of things. For sure for a family that wants rental equipment, lessons, is buying day passes etc. it is a lot more expensive. So depending on your personal situation epic can be a win or loss.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@abc, ExtremelyCanadial is owned/run by Vail. I met a few people who were critical of Vail, but just in a reserved, polite Canadian way. Not so much about the ticketing framework but the prices for food, equipment, lessons, etc and the wages they pay. Also a few complaints about new/bigger lift infrastructure.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@adithorp, I'm sure there're complains. But there're also enough people who explicitly say they felt the Vail ownership is a good thing for Whistler! (enough of them for me to share a chair with them many times)
I'm only an occasional visitor. So I can't tell how much validity those complains and praises are. I've skied Whistler pre and post Vail ownership. Can't say I can tell the difference.
That's in contrast of my experience of some easter resorts Vail bought out at later time. The pre and post Vail ownership is quite clear and largely unfavorable.
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| adithorp wrote: |
| @abc, ExtremelyCanadial is owned/run by Vail. I met a few people who were critical of Vail, but just in a reserved, polite Canadian way. Not so much about the ticketing framework but the prices for food, equipment, lessons, etc and the wages they pay. Also a few complaints about new/bigger lift infrastructure. |
I can't say anyone I know living in whistler would have much clue about the cost of ski rental or lessons. Again this is the case of "holiday skiers" being effected not locals. Neither the cheapest or most expensive restaurants in whistler village are owned by vail. I don't know current on mountain prices - they were always expensive even before Vail - but again most locals just don't use them (or have enough disposable income they don't care).
I don't know how anyone could seriously complain about the new lift infrastructure. It's not like they've built any new lifts, simply upgraded the old lifts to increase capacity. Anyone complaining about this is simply complaining for the sake of it.
Personally I won't go back to whistler now because accomodation is simply too expensive. I'm sure someone will find a way to blame Vail for that too 
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Well Whistler was always not cheap but with a bit of effort you could usually find accomodation that compared with Euro prices. Some say that the greater influx of Americans post Epic pass "free" skiing has enabled hotels and appartments to really jack up their rates.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The issue with the HI hostel is not necessarily price but availability given that there are a lot of workers that end up living there all winter and as the cheapest accomodation by far it books out really early.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Yes, we are back to the lack of affordable accommodation in whistler situation. But considering the early bird epic pass deal usually ends early September time, if you are buying your pass then with the intent to go to whistler it would make sense to also book accommodation then. Which should be early enough - looks like they still have spaces for January now.
Im sure someone will point out it's "crazy" to have to buy lift passes and reserve accomodation 4+ months in advance. However, there are plenty of threads on here about doing the exact same thing in Europe to get cheapest flights by booking as soon as they are released.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
Well if you take what they do in N America they sweat the assets by trying to get the maximum throughput of visitors while nickel and diming all ancilliaries and screwing workers over. Overal enshittification of the experience.
Season pass prices are low but day/week passes are jacked up high to exploit casual or non advance planned visitors.
I guess Laax Flims has looked at Andermatt and Crans Montana and said we don't fancy that. Though don't know whether Vail have really applied all their existing model there. For starters I imagine employment rights are very different in CH to US. |
Yes, they have applied their business model to Crans. Massively oversold pre-season and mulit-resort tickets and very expensive in-season tickets, with surge pricing and enormous lift queues. But don't worry, for CHF100 or so pp extra you can join the long express queue.
So, whilst I get a few free days there the reality is I won't get much time.on mountain unless I buy an express line access, which is more than a day pass at neighbouring Anzerre, which is a far better option these days IMO.
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FAQ
"a bit tame" too. 
