 Poster: A snowHead
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All I can say is that I wouldn’t be driving the thick end of 2,000 miles in the middle
of winter, on potentially snowy motorways, on summer tyres.
If it snows when you’re in London you can stay at home. If it snows when you’re heading to Tignes you’re going anyway so you’re going to have to do that drive.
You can afford the tyres, you know they make sense, so why wouldn’t you protect yourself? For the sake for £500 (after eBaying the old ones), really?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| If I have a pair with obviously more tread they will always go on the front axle, on awd cars which mostly bias drive to the front but in any case it's steering and braking that are more important so would probably do so on a rear drive car as well. (Not had one for years though). |
This is contrary to the advice of all the tyre manufacturers I've ever read. You want the tyres with the most tread on the rear axle regardless of FWD, RWD or AWD. The reason is that people are generally better at coping with understeer (If the front looses grip before the rear) than oversteer when the back loses grip. Yes you'll have more traction going up hill in a FWD car with the better tyres on the front, but the most dangerous bit is going down hill. Having the rear overtake the front because the front have better grip is going to ruin your day.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| LaForet wrote: |
| @Ham How about getting a set of snow/cold/wet-biased all-season tyres for the winter, and then alternating them with the summers? |
I can't see any reason why you'd go for all-seasons in that situation. What's your logic? I mean, why would you not, if you were running two sets of wheels, just go for full winters in the winter?
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@Judwin, I'd like to see this advice that you've read. Specifically, where they say that this is their advice for winter conditions. We're not talking about performance driving, at high speeds, pushing the tyres to their limits. Under/oversteer implies that you've already gone wrong, that you were going to fast for the conditions. And most modern cars with traction control make it almost impossible to induce such events anyway.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| James the Last wrote: |
All I can say is that I wouldn’t be driving the thick end of 2,000 miles in the middle
of winter, on potentially snowy motorways, on summer tyres.
If it snows when you’re in London you can stay at home. If it snows when you’re heading to Tignes you’re going anyway so you’re going to have to do that drive.
You can afford the tyres, you know they make sense, so why wouldn’t you protect yourself? For the sake for £500 (after eBaying the old ones), really? |
It's relevant that we go the Christmas week, which tends not to be that bad. While I've known it to be a bit gnarly, recent years have not been that cold off the mountain - January onwards tends to be more challenging. If there's a big weather event it tends to be in the forecast for a few days, allowing me to hastily reconsider. The days when I'd pick my wife up from work and drive to the ferry/shuttle, through the night to the resort are long gone. This year, we are likely leaving Thursday pm, staying at Reims overnight then Friday night in Annecy. My biggest challenge is keeping the turkey frozen. Coming back, once off the mountain we're planning on staying in Chalons en Champagne, which is always great that time of year. If we don't make it, no big deal.
And, I think the real number is closer to £900 rather than £500 - looking at ebay the tyres are probably worth around £200, call it £180 after fees. Tyres - £1,200 less say 10% .....
So, there appears a very limited scenario for when I'll be forced to add risk to the ride. I'm getting chains now, so I'll be able to deal with the resort climb and descent. While obviously the winter tyres would be optimal, I don't agree not having them will add to risk in ways I can't mitigate.
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£1,200!! How big are they?! eBay have (sort of) abolished selling fees for vendors btw.
The biggest risk is to your temper, dealing with chains - or possibly to your fingers, frostbite!
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@Ham, I found that buying second hand alloys in a smaller size but correct fitment for my car to be more cost effective, allowing a saving on the winter tyres as they were in a more sensible size with a more sensible sidewall.
Sure, the package probably cost the same as getting winters in the silly 22 inches that the original wheels demanded, but as others have said,
- my summers have lasted way longer as not used in winter
- I don't have to pay anyone to swap the tyres as I can change the wheels myself
Also, as others have said, winters don't really help on ice, when chains are needed. Mercifully, I have never really had to deal with sheet ice for any distance as generally, where we go is ploughed, rather than compacted and re-frozen.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Harry Flashman, have you notified insurers and did they add anything? Or are you just accepting the risk? If the wheels are branded I suppose that risk could be regarded as low, but the stake is high.
| Quote: |
| Mercifully, I have never really had to deal with sheet ice for any distance as generally, where we go is ploughed, rather than compacted and re-frozen. |
Very much the case for the resort road, and most low roads at Christmas, which is what I was factoring into my thinking
| James the Last wrote: |
£1,200!! How big are they?! eBay have (sort of) abolished selling fees for vendors btw.
The biggest risk is to your temper, dealing with chains - or possibly to your fingers, frostbite! |
Effing big  I haven't looked into it, but I thought all they abolished was selling fees, not the final value fee (15% ish from what I recall). Did I mention I hate buying and selling on fleabay?
Single side locating chains are generally very quick and easy to fit, but they are generally much larger to store and carry and more expensive. Given my experience I'm still likely to consider them above a classic chain.
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I don't see any need to inform insurers if you fit the wheel/tyre combination recommended for winter tyres in your owners manual. The will probably be a couple of sizes smaller.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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UK insurers agreed about five years ago to collectively not regard changing to winter tyres as being a notifiable alteration to the specification. As long as the wheel and tyre spec’ conformed to the manufacturers’ certified sizes. Basically, the same conditions as apply when changing from one brand of the tyre another, or replacing wheels with smaller/larger sizes. Here is their list of the insurers and their requirements. All but a few state you don’t need to tell them - as long as you’re just replacing tyres, not wheels: the exceptions are 2-3 obscure small companies.
ABI Declaration on Notification of fitting winter tyres
And BTW I’m with the OP re the retirement thing i.e. when I retired my whole financial outlook changed: every £100 of discretionary spending is £100 less in my pension fund. I can’t make it up from earnings any more. On previous cars I might spend £1K on a set of winter wheels and tyres, then sell them on for ~£250 when I changed the car. In the retirement context, these sums would represent perhaps the biggest single item of discretionary spending in the whole year.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Tue 28-10-25 23:01; edited 4 times in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| LaForet wrote: |
| @Ham How about getting a set of snow/cold/wet-biased all-season tyres for the winter, and then alternating them with the summers? |
I can't see any reason why you'd go for all-seasons in that situation. What's your logic? I mean, why would you not, if you were running two sets of wheels, just go for full winters in the winter? |
The logic is you’re running two sets of tyres (not wheels) in order to use the tread left in the existing, almost-new summers. i.e. Summers in summer and all-seasons in winter. But only until the summer tyres are consumed. Then you replace with all-seasons throughout the year. What this does is utilise the 15-20,000 miles of tread left in the summer tyres, by using them the next few summers until they’re done.
I’ve done this, and tyres on their own were far easier to store and manage than tyres+wheels. Although I did have to be more careful about stacking them as they can deform more easily. On change-overs, I could also fit the tyres in my car when I couldn’t fit wheels+tyres, and didn’t have to organise for them to be collected and returned, which adds to the cost and hassle. I know that regularly removing and refitting tyres risks damage, but this is only going to be until they’re run down. After that, the OPs vehicle will be on all-seasons permanently.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Tue 28-10-25 9:32; edited 3 times in total
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@LaForet, very useful, thanks! (looking at the approved combos) It appears that there are 17 and 18 inch wheel combos available, could be worth looking into.
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You know it makes sense.
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@Ham, I found that buying second hand alloys in a smaller size but correct fitment for my car to be more cost effective, allowing a saving on the winter tyres as they were in a more sensible size with a more sensible sidewall.
Sure, the package probably cost the same as getting winters in the silly 22 inches that the original wheels demanded, but as others have said,
- my summers have lasted way longer as not used in winter
- I don't have to pay anyone to swap the tyres as I can change the wheels myself
Also, as others have said, winters don't really help on ice, when chains are needed. Mercifully, I have never really had to deal with sheet ice for any distance as generally, where we go is ploughed, rather than compacted and re-frozen.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Be warned that putting non std wheels on will probably invalidate your insurance
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
My biggest challenge is keeping the turkey frozen
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Unless French customs take it off you of course
@Harry Flashman, while what you suggest makes sense, just a reminder to anyone doing this to let your insurance company know. It counts as a modification.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Yes, the insurers document I read covering this was clear about the parallel issue of fitting non-certified wheels. For my model of car, this was 7J or 7.5J only for winter tyres. My original rear 8J wheels weren’t certified to take winter tyres or chains. If you think insurer loss adjusters don’t check this when an accident claim comes in, think again - we had one such member on our owners forum and this is precisely what he would check. If he found a non-certified wheel size on the car then he’d reject the claim.
Hence my suggesting earlier that you should always look at your owners manual or ask your garage service department about (a) whether your spec’ of car can even take chains. And if you plan to change wheel size, (b) confirm what are the certified combinations of wheel and tyre sizes.
Edit: as below, my previous car had uprated brakes compared to the regular version. These could not take most 3rd-party wheels, which simply would not fit, even though the pitch circle diameter and offset etc matched.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Tue 28-10-25 13:14; edited 4 times in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Ham wrote: |
| @LaForet, very useful, thanks! (looking at the approved combos) It appears that there are 17 and 18 inch wheel combos available, could be worth looking into. |
You'll need to assess whether there's clearance to the existing brake specification. Not all given options will fit over all of the brake sizes used in vehicle range.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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On a slight tangent, I'll mention that when getting an alternate set of rims+winter tyres for your 4x4, you should get FIVE.
If you're really lucky, you end up with the winter tyres having the same overall circumference as the summer tyres (or slightly less), which means you can leave the winter wheel as the spare all year - a spare winter tyre being essential on snow, whereas a winter tyre will be ok in the summer. It's probably wise to rotate the spare winter tyre each year, to keep the tread wear consistent on all 5 tyres.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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True, but a quick eyeball suggests that the tyre cost drops to £160 for Michelin crossclimate, £130 for a goodyear on 18" suggesting that it might be worth the investment in time. Of course, storage then gets to be fun but I have some ideas about that.
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| Crosbie wrote: |
On a slight tangent, I'll mention that when getting an alternate set of rims+winter tyres for your 4x4, you should get FIVE.
If you're really lucky, you end up with the winter tyres having the same overall circumference as the summer tyres (or slightly less), which means you can leave the winter wheel as the spare all year - a spare winter tyre being essential on snow, whereas a winter tyre will be ok in the summer. It's probably wise to rotate the spare winter tyre each year, to keep the tread wear consistent on all 5 tyres. |
Spacesaver only here, which would probably work on the smaller setup just as well as the bigger (ie, not very well at all).
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Im a farmer, I HATE spending money unnecessarily, but the small cost of all seasons over normal tyres or even buying a second set is much smaller than having a small bump because you couldn't stop and hit something, then add in the hassle factor.
We use a 4wd double cab pick up that came with M&S tyres once they got down to half worn after 25 000 miles i swapped to cross climate and sold the others on E bay , they are better on icy slopes up from where we havecstayed for the last few holidays, on the M&S I had to use the 4wd to get up last winter on the cross climates went up easily, that was on a slope i slipped over on the ice having gone down to get the wife some croissants
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@LaForet, Not just wheel sizes for insurance. When I was checking to see if all season tyres where covered, it was made clear that even changing from alloys to steel was a mod and would invalidate the insurance.
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@Ham, I'd perhaps be more worried about customs finding my turkey. No meat products allowed into EU from UK,
https://www.douane.gouv.fr/sites/default/files/2021-03/10/travellers-what-kinds-of-food-and-plants-can-you-bring-with-you.pdf
@Harry Flashman,
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as others have said, winters don't really help on ice, when chains are needed
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In my experience (19 years of living near or in the Alps, albeit living at only 1,000m) winters help rather a lot on ice and chains do very little (they have nothing to cut into, obvs). Our last property was up a 20% hill and winters got us up and down all winter. I've never owned chains.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Crosbie wrote: |
I'm just imagining coming down from a ski resort like that, with 3 winter tyres or chained summer tyres, and an un chained spacesaver, on a snow covered mountain road.
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I'm not - that would be a recovery job. One of the limited benefits of owning a Merc is that breakdown across Europe is as simple as pressing a button.
Oh boy, another Brexit Bonus 
| robs1 wrote: |
Im a farmer, I HATE spending money unnecessarily, but the small cost of all seasons over normal tyres or even buying a second set is much smaller than having a small bump because you couldn't stop and hit something, then add in the hassle factor.
We use a 4wd double cab pick up that came with M&S tyres once they got down to half worn after 25 000 miles i swapped to cross climate and sold the others on E bay , they are better on icy slopes up from where we havecstayed for the last few holidays, on the M&S I had to use the 4wd to get up last winter on the cross climates went up easily, that was on a slope i slipped over on the ice having gone down to get the wife some croissants |
Dare I guess that as a farmer you have no issues with storage?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Obviously I don't condone it, but if using Le Shuttle, I would be amazed if anyone checked your car for a turkey.
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You know it makes sense.
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Off topic but yes, entering Switzerland they can be diligent about the relatively modest allowance for meat for personal use. This is mainly to deter people from bulk buying across the border. You can run foul of this if you’re in a multi-vehicle group where one car is carrying the provisions for a much larger group. The official Swiss 'QuickZoll' app gives you all the details of what the allowances are. For example, the meat allowance is 1kg/day per person.
Also bear in mind you may get checked driving back into the EU from Switzerland. Whilst it's probably unlikely you are bringing Swiss wine or cheese in volumes big enough to cause a problem, it might be the case. So worth knowing what the EU import allowances are for entering France. Ignorance is generally no defence.
We've been checked in both directions. Asked about alcohol going into France from CH, and my new SLR camera and lenses going into CH from France.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Tue 28-10-25 15:19; edited 2 times in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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OT still, but I'm still quite proud of what I managed last year. The apartment did not have an oven (!! Shock horror !! But seems to be increasingly common). I bought an air fryer ( ninja double stack) took it with and turned out a full Christmas dinner for 7, including turkey (jointed, obv), roasties, stuffing (two types) on it. Achievement unlocked!
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Poster: A snowHead
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I'm always careful about the tax-free limits, given that I'm only a couple of hundred metres from the border post so would become an obvious easy target if I were ever caught taking the wee wee.
In practice I'm probably stopped only once or twice a year, doing at least one trip over for a weekly shop in Chatel and sometimes others for various reasons. Probably only twice in the eight years here have they done anything more than a quick question and a look in through the windows, and only once can I recall them actually going through the shopping to check. Meat is, as mentioned, the big deal, so in recent years we'd even resorted to buying a frozen turkey in the Swiss Lidl rather than taking the risk.
Worth noting that the duty payable on meat if you have more than the 1kg per person is a massive chf17 per kilo, and that's assuming that you declared it, otherwise there will be a fine on top of that as well.
Allowances were changed and simplified last year, overall value of goods reduced to chf150 per person, but specific limits on some other goods, like cheese and fish, removed, so worth checking here https://www.bazg.admin.ch/bazg/en/home/information-individuals/travel-and-purchases--allowances-and-duty-free-limit/importation-into-switzerland/duty-free-allowances--foodstuffs--alcohol-and-tobacco.html
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Ham wrote: |
It's relevant that we go the Christmas week, which tends not to be that bad. . |
Tignes was basically closed one day last Christmas, there was so much snow. There’s nothing special about the week of the anniversary of the birth of Our Lord that keeps the snow away you know. Between the PIPAU and PSB in Tignes in early December there’s often a day lost to snow.
Anyway, final value fees have been abolished on eBay. They do charge the buyer a fee, 7% up to £20, 4% beyond and 2% over £300, so they’re not strictly truthful. But anyway they’re smaller than they used to be.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Ham wrote: |
| Crosbie wrote: |
I'm just imagining coming down from a ski resort like that, with 3 winter tyres or chained summer tyres, and an un chained spacesaver, on a snow covered mountain road.
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I'm not - that would be a recovery job. One of the limited benefits of owning a Merc is that breakdown across Europe is as simple as pressing a button.
Oh boy, another Brexit Bonus
| robs1 wrote: |
Im a farmer, I HATE spending money unnecessarily, but the small cost of all seasons over normal tyres or even buying a second set is much smaller than having a small bump because you couldn't stop and hit something, then add in the hassle factor.
We use a 4wd double cab pick up that came with M&S tyres once they got down to half worn after 25 000 miles i swapped to cross climate and sold the others on E bay , they are better on icy slopes up from where we havecstayed for the last few holidays, on the M&S I had to use the 4wd to get up last winter on the cross climates went up easily, that was on a slope i slipped over on the ice having gone down to get the wife some croissants |
Dare I guess that as a farmer you have no issues with storage? |
Yes plenty of room. But I run all season all year round , they are really good on wet roads at this time of the year, regardless of the grip going forward stopping a heavy lump of metal is the problem , driving sensibly especially going downhill is just as important
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@James the Last, yep - we were in AdH and were lucky we arrived early on the Saturday, cars were struggling later in the day and chains were being mandated
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| James the Last wrote: |
| Ham wrote: |
It's relevant that we go the Christmas week, which tends not to be that bad. . |
Tignes was basically closed one day last Christmas, there was so much snow. There’s nothing special about the week of the anniversary of the birth of Our Lord that keeps the snow away you know. Between the PIPAU and PSB in Tignes in early December there’s often a day lost to snow.
Anyway, final value fees have been abolished on eBay. They do charge the buyer a fee, 7% up to £20, 4% beyond and 2% over £300, so they’re not strictly truthful. But anyway they’re smaller than they used to be. |
Yeah, we we there - at least at Les Menuires, thankful we didn't have to get up to VT*. We were early enough I got up the mountain without chains on summer tyres without any drama. Didn't 'arf have to do some digging at the end, there being next to no indoor parking in Les Menuires. Thing about the xmas week, even if you do get a dump its unlikely to be on top of hard pack.
Good to hear about eBay fees - I assume it must be in reaction to the ascendance of FB Marketplace. I may even try to sell some stuff.
*There is something to be said for being slightly lower, had it been our choice we would have been in VT then and ValClaret (not leLac) this year.
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| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
...even resorted to buying a frozen turkey in the Swiss Lidl rather than taking the risk.
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I certainly would if I could, but there is no sign that they stock them, at least not that I can find online? Certainly not any French supermarket - unless maybe pas-de-calais? We've been christmassing on skis since our daughter was 3 (grandchildren now 3,4.5,7) , we've no intention of stopping now, but capon doesn't quite cut the moutarde.
ETA https://www.argel.fr/dinde-sebastien-de-kerdour seems to be the only option I can find
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@Ham, I suspect it’s down to Vinted - sell your clothes for nearly free. It started with just clothes, then expanded. Vinted have also gone beyond second hand clothes.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Back to tyres and chains: bear in mind re winter tyres that perversely, later in the winter, it can be hard to get a replacement if needed. Retailers stock-up with winters ahead of the change-over in late autumn. Then run down their stocks over the winter. This can especially be an issue en route, in non-Alpine areas. If money was no object, you'd carry a spare winter tyre just in case. I did this for one vehicle but I'm not sure that it's very cost-effective. Of course, like chains, having gone to the expense I never needed it. In contrast, all-seasons tend to be stocked year-'round.
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On that point, all seasons are a nuisance as they will only replace them in pairs. Worse if you’ve an AWD as you should only replace tyres four at a time, whatever type they are.
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FAQ
a contributor on here reported their grandparents having the uncooked turkey and accompanying meat confiscated when entering Switzerland. Busted for seasonal meat rustling quite amusing though.
, twenty minutes later after getting everything out of the back of the pick up we were allowed to go. The Swiss are such a miserable bunch