 Poster: A snowHead
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@LaForet, The problem being that many all season and winter tyres are rotational, so if carrying a single spare there is a 50-50 chance it's going to be for the wrong side. Few people outside of rallying carry two spares, one for each side.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I live in Germany. It is, to all intents and purposes, a legal requirement to switch to winter tyres (not exactly - but this isn't a legal discussion). When I first came here I balked at the cost and when I bought my latest car I was even more upset as the Summer and Winter wheels/tyres are different sizes ... so I had to fork out for another set of wheels as well as tyres.
However, having now got used to it, I'd never go back to all season or only summer tyres. As the tyres are only being used for their intended purpose they are WAY better at it and, as you're spreading the wear across two sets, they last longer so, in the end, you're not really paying much more.
Last, but definitely not least, proper winter tyres are an absolute hoot; I drove to Zermatt and crossed from Italy to Switzerland via one of the mountain passes in an absolute blizzard. The road was covered in at least 4-5cm of new snow. On Summer tyres or all seasons I'd have been going nowhere. In a 4wd sports car with Michelin Pilot Alpin tyres I had a complete blast and got to play Colin McRae Rally for real.
I would say that, with proper winter tyres and 4WD, you're never going to need chains ... which is a good thing as they won't fit on my car anyway !
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Hi jacking this thread.
Winter wheels and tyres for sale.
I have a full set of winter tyres already balanced and on alloy wheels.
Been used for two trips to the French alps.
Eurowinter 235/55/R19 105V
Been using them on our 2016 landrover discovery sport.
No idea how to add photos but PM me and I can then send some.
Collection from Worthing, West Sussex.
£600.00 will throw in a set of snow chains never used.
Staying on the subject. Having driven on the above. The difference is amazing. You wouldn’t even know you are driving in snow. While everyone else is mucking about with socks or chains you just drive past them.
Never needed the chains, hence they are brand new.
New car forces sale, but I’ve already bought a new set for the new Range Rover.
Unfortunately I needed 21” or 22” rims.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Near here they are £200+ per year, including tyre changes and you'd have to buy the tyres there to get it that low, otherwise more like £400
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I’ve only started driving to the Alps again in the last few years, with all-season tyres which I have found to be amazing even in deep snow.
Years ago I mistakenly thought I’d be fine in a 4WD drive car with summer tyres and carrying chains. Never again! The problem is that chains are only any use on a pretty much snowed over road, anything less and your speed is severely restricted and all the winter/all-season shod cars are going mad behind you! If you don’t put the chains on then even in a tiny amount of snow and the grip is none existent. And contrary to what people might think, controlling a sliding 4WD can be harder than a 2WD.
Sorry but not sure if the tyre size concerned has been discussed but I’ve just checked and you can get all-seasons in 235/55 19 (a Mercedes GLC size) for about £560 for 4, that’s Goodyear Vector 4Seasons, from Halfords (15% off for 4)
I’m nearing the hallowed position you are in, retirement in a year or two, so I can imagine the restrictions on financing big things like a full set of tyres. (It may be I realise it’s not such a hallowed position once I’ve made the jump!)
A couple of options to consider would be interest free credit, some tyre places offer it or how about the good old interest free credit card and pay off over the next few months. Obviously easy for me to say when I’m still working and and can stand the odd extra outgoing per month, I might think differently in 18 months!!
Anyway, just my few thoughts on the matter. Who knows, you could be driving back home in 2 and a bit months time having not seen a flake of snow!!
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| Judwin wrote: |
| @LaForet, The problem being that many all season and winter tyres are rotational, so if carrying a single spare there is a 50-50 chance it's going to be for the wrong side. Few people outside of rallying carry two spares, one for each side. |
Tyres can be (a) Directional (what you’ve called rotational) and/or (b) Asymmetric (in terms of the tread pattern and/or tread belts).
If you’re carrying a spare tyre then if it’s directional and
- symmetric: there’s no problem. You just remove the damaged tyre from any wheel and fit the spare, making sure the direction of rotation is correct, then refit the combination.
- asymmetric: then it only fits on one side of the vehicle. So you’d have to carry a spare left and right.
If you have a spare wheel+tyre and it’s
- directional: then it only fits on one side of the vehicle. If you put the left side on the right the tyre read will be facing backwards, and vice-versa. Whether it’s symmetric or not is secondary.
My last winters were Pirelli Winter Sottozero S3 which are directional and symmetric. So I could carry a spare tyre, and it would fit any wheel. But it’s useful to point out the distinction, as it would indeed be a problem if you had one asymmetric spare tyre.
That said, my previous tyes were Pirelli Winter Sottozero Serie-2 and these were not directional but were asymmetric. However, they did not come in left and right versions. When I checked with Pirelli, they said that it didn’t matter: the tyres could be fitted on any wheel, facing either way.
There are directional asymmetric tyres that come in left and right versions, but I’ve only come across these as high-performance, supercar summer tyres, or track racing tyres.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Tue 28-10-25 22:27; edited 2 times in total
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@LaForet, Agreed, but...
- directional and symmetric: there’s no problem. You just remove the damaged tyre from any wheel and fit the spare, then refit the combination.
I think you're saying replace the punctured tyre with the spare tyre using the same rim? If you are, then that's not something many of us would want to be doing at the side of the road. Getting a tyre off a rim isn't a trivial task without the correct equipment
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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No it isn’t, I’d agree. That’s not what I was suggesting.
What I was saying is that if you have winter tyres on, then you need to be aware that it can be hard to get a replacement tyre locally once the ski season has started in earnest. Because the tyre retailers stock-up for the start of the winter, when the demand is greatest, and then run the stocks down in the new year.
So what some owners might consider is buying a spare tyre to take along with them, to deal with this. There have been posts from members who have written off their winter tyre in France, en route to the Alps, and had to wait a day or two for the appropriate replacement to be delivered to the retailer. In that event, the cost of a spare tyre was a lot less than two extra nights accommodation. Plus losing a couple of days of the holiday waiting for a tyre to be shipped.
But of course, it’s an expensive option given the tyre may never be used.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Tue 28-10-25 21:58; edited 5 times in total
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[quote="Blackblade.
Last, but definitely not least, proper winter tyres are an absolute hoot; I drove to Zermatt and crossed from Italy to Switzerland via one of the mountain passes in an absolute blizzard. The road was covered in at least 4-5cm of new snow. On Summer tyres or all seasons I'd have been going nowhere. In a 4wd sports car with Michelin Pilot Alpin tyres I had a complete blast and got to play Colin McRae Rally for real.
Were they studded? We drove from Gothenburg to Geilo in Norway in rwd Saab on proper, studded winter tyres. They were a bit noisy but ok on the motorway up to Oslo but when we hit lying snow on A roads just north of Oslo they came into their own and transformed the drive from what would have been a struggle into, as you say, a hoot.
I’ve not done anything more than a few hours on company events on a track / skid pan but found it an absolute joy to gently drift round long bends and kick right out on the hairpins. I’m not sure my wife and kids appreciated it as much as me but it was a truly memorable journey. 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@LaForet, Ok. Personally, I'd put the spare tyre on a spare rim and keep it as a fully functioning spare that can be swapped in 10 mins at the side of the road if required. There is a 50-50 chance that it'll be fitted for the correct side, although obviously sods law says it wont be. If you're unfortunate, and it's the wrong side put it on anyway and drive to the closest tyre place and get them to swap it round on the rim. Might cost you £50/E50 for the swap and a balance, but quicker than waiting days for a replacement.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Here is the Association of British Insurers (ABI)
Commitment on Winter Tyres declaration.
This lists the main UK car insurers and their policy as regards notification of fitting of winter tyres. Most do not require notification, as you will see. The exceptions are e-Car, Southern Rock and Swiftcover. Some have the caveat that the tyre size has to be one that’s certified by the car manufacturer.
Note however, that you may need to notify them if you change wheels, as well as tyres. This is in line with their general policy around changing wheels. As I noted, some insurers regard fitting non-manufacturer-certified wheel+tyre combinations as invalidating cover.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Tue 28-10-25 23:24; edited 3 times in total
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| japes1275 wrote: |
I’ve only started driving to the Alps again in the last few years, with all-season tyres which I have found to be amazing even in deep snow.
Years ago I mistakenly thought I’d be fine in a 4WD drive car with summer tyres and carrying chains. Never again! The problem is that chains are only any use on a pretty much snowed over road, anything less and your speed is severely restricted and all the winter/all-season shod cars are going mad behind you! If you don’t put the chains on then even in a tiny amount of snow and the grip is none existent. And contrary to what people might think, controlling a sliding 4WD can be harder than a 2WD.
Sorry but not sure if the tyre size concerned has been discussed but I’ve just checked and you can get all-seasons in 235/55 19 (a Mercedes GLC size) for about £560 for 4, that’s Goodyear Vector 4Seasons, from Halfords (15% off for 4)
I’m nearing the hallowed position you are in, retirement in a year or two, so I can imagine the restrictions on financing big things like a full set of tyres. (It may be I realise it’s not such a hallowed position once I’ve made the jump!)
A couple of options to consider would be interest free credit, some tyre places offer it or how about the good old interest free credit card and pay off over the next few months. Obviously easy for me to say when I’m still working and and can stand the odd extra outgoing per month, I might think differently in 18 months!!
Anyway, just my few thoughts on the matter. Who knows, you could be driving back home in 2 and a bit months time having not seen a flake of snow!! |
Just FTR, the GLE version of the same tyre from Halfords, with discounts, is £825 for 4 (yes, pretty much 50% more expensive).... It is interesting as I had seen those but discounted them as Halfords weren't showing them with 3PMSF, but they are.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Weathercam, I doubt your postie gives a monkey's if said Kangoo gets dented or smashed up either
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Weathercam, isn’t a postie in SC required to have suitable tyres by law from November to March? Haut Alpes is one of the départments where they’re compulsory in all communes isn’t it?
Also, practice makes perfect. For those of us who only see snow in the road every few years, we’re not going to be as good at it as a SC postie!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Boris wrote: |
| @Blackblade, I believe there are a lot of tyre hotels there where you can store your summer tyres. Not having space at home is a consideration for many in UK |
Most garages here will offer this as a service ... for a nominal fee. So, yes, you're right.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| rickboden wrote: |
Were they studded? We drove from Gothenburg to Geilo in Norway in rwd Saab on proper, studded winter tyres. They were a bit noisy but ok on the motorway up to Oslo but when we hit lying snow on A roads just north of Oslo they came into their own and transformed the drive from what would have been a struggle into, as you say, a hoot.
I’ve not done anything more than a few hours on company events on a track / skid pan but found it an absolute joy to gently drift round long bends and kick right out on the hairpins. I’m not sure my wife and kids appreciated it as much as me but it was a truly memorable journey. |
No, they weren't studded ... but, full disclosure, I'm a lifelong petrolhead (two wheel and four) and have done a lot of circuit driving including skid pan training. So, I was doing the full throw it in sideways and power it out ... there was no one else stupid enough to be out on the road ! The Pilot Alpin 5s are really superb tyres and the grip they gave was really astonishing considering the conditions.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Weathercam wrote: |
I'm pretty sure my local postie doesn't get all concerned like 90% of the posters here are at the onset of Winter and just makes do with her Renault Kangoo and whatever tyres are supplied for the season, and she manages pretty damn well 
Do think some of you are over thinking this, but then it wouldn't be SH's  |
Well, that's really just another vote for snow tyres, isn't it?
Anyways up, it's been an interesting and illuminating discussion, and I've made a decision. Allowing that snow tyres would be the best option, I've abandoned the 4 socks idea and bought a set of decent self tensioning chains for £150, I may add a set of socks for the front, especially if I can get them for the going rate of £40 on eBay. If I need them, I will obviously have to deploy a load more faff and caution driving than I would with snow tyres, but thousands manage the drive without falling off the mountain without the slightest idea of the risk they run, as long as I continue with the mantra of "Don't be a knob" while driving I will likely survive intact. There's no way I'm going to be going back to skiing more than once a year (my wife can't ski any more) so I feel that's a proportionate response. Apologies in advance if you are stuck behind me coming off the mountain, chill out and enjoy the ride.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Blackblade wrote: |
| Weathercam wrote: |
I'm pretty sure my local postie doesn't get all concerned like 90% of the posters here are at the onset of Winter and just makes do with her Renault Kangoo and whatever tyres are supplied for the season, and she manages pretty damn well
Do think some of you are over thinking this, but then it wouldn't be SH's |
Some key points that people forget ...
1. 4wd doesn't help under braking
2. Momentum is your friend; most people go too slowly in slippery conditions as they're scared (probably rightly) of losing control but being over cautious and braking WILL cause you to lose control
3. Winter tyres and 4wd allows you to, almost always, get the car moving in the direction you want ... if you've maintained momentum
4. Don't be scared of sliding ... you will slide ... but unless it's on sheet ice you still have some traction to direct the vehicle where you want it
5. Practice !!!
Most people who drive in snow regularly end up dealing with it without much problem ... but it's kind of like skiing in that you need to curb your natural instincts to do it and learn some new ones. Don't brake, do accelerate, get the feeling of always keeping the wheels where you want them irrespective of the attitude of the vehicle (essentially drive the slide). |
Some excellent points - could I add before "1" - try to do everything smoothly and gently? and add to "2" - however you slow down (and, gentle braking in a straight line isn't that bad) try to corner under gentle power, especially on RWD, which helps transfer weight to the steering end, don't brake IN a corner if you can possibly help it (actually, that's whether in snow or not)
ETA - yes, FWD power on a corner can help too, but if you overcook it, you're into understeer which is a whole different realm of pain, especially if you aren't used to dealing with it.
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| rickboden wrote: |
| We drove from Gothenburg to Geilo in Norway in rwd Saab on proper, studded winter tyres. |
That's a neat trick. Saab never produced a rwd car! I had four fwd ones and they were mighty fine vehicles.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| DJL wrote: |
| rickboden wrote: |
| We drove from Gothenburg to Geilo in Norway in rwd Saab on proper, studded winter tyres. |
That's a neat trick. Saab never produced a rwd car! I had four fwd ones and they were mighty fine vehicles. |
Dad had a couple of Saabs which coped very well with snowy County Durham winters in the late 70s and early 80s. I think one of them even had heated seats.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Often the best strategy is to admit defeat in advance, and be aware of potential issues and thereby not attempt to...
A - drive the last 200m to home up a 17% hill and leave the truck
B - be aware that new arrivals have probably blocked the route
C - stay off the roads on a Saturday if snowing heavily
D - if snowing heavily park up and wait but again be aware of where snowplough might deposit snow
G - try and suss potential black ice forecasts
F - Finally if you rely on Haldex make sure it's working !!!!!!!!!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| DJL wrote: |
| rickboden wrote: |
| We drove from Gothenburg to Geilo in Norway in rwd Saab on proper, studded winter tyres. |
That's a neat trick. Saab never produced a rwd car! I had four fwd ones and they were mighty fine vehicles. |
I was thinking the same.
Saab in rally competition of course bringing the advanced driving of one Erik Carlsson as exponent of front wheel driven high performance motoring.
Additionally, the real Stig as in Blomqvist the "epicentre" of ultra high performing front wheel drive Saab competition, subsequently 4wd too with the Audi Quattro development program. Absolute master of vehicle dynamics in competitive motorsport
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If you are unfortunate enough to find yourself on a slope with wet ice you are stuffed whatever tyres you have on.
I have only experienced it once. 
There are a lot of drivers that head for the Alps that have virtually no experience of driving in the conditions they may encounter.
We are in Scotland and the last time I drove a lot in snow was 2010/11. We have had odd days since but most of the time I have avoided much driving.
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You know it makes sense.
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And from thinking about 4WD, in a "Gentlemen, that reminds me moment".....
Back in the 80's - 87 i think it must have been - I managed to wangle an invite to the jamboree day out arranged by the largest fleet dealers at the time*, who also were the owners of HR Owen. Which meant that they had pretty much all the exotica you can think of, alongside the Mondeos and vivas. Jag, Lotus, you name it. The setup was at the country pile of the owner, sign your name on a piece of paper and get handed the keys for any car you wanted for half an hour, to drive around the local country roads. Mostly without anyone else in the car, with the exception of one car, which you had to have someone from the company in the passenger seat. I put my name down for that - the Colt Starion Turbo Homologation special. That was the rally 4WD version of what was then the (or at least, among the) fastest accelerating cars on the planet, and was my first experience of 4WD, it was extreme fun.
All was going smoothly until lunch, which was served with wine. If you can imagine the carnage on the road afterwards, you have a truly perverted imagination. That was the first and last time they used that format.....
*No, I wasn't a major company fleet manager like all the rest of the attendees
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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@ski3, Fascinating article, thanks. I'm glad I kept the story reasonably anonymous, as it appears the owner is still around. I suspect the car's presence there might have been out of his personal collection, it didn't make much sense at the time, either.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Ham wrote: |
| @ski3, Fascinating article, thanks. I'm glad I kept the story reasonably anonymous, as it appears the owner is still around. I suspect the car's presence there might have been out of his personal collection, it didn't make much sense at the time, either. |
Gerald "Guinness share trade crook" Ronson?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I couldn't POSSIBLY comment 
Unless of course you could find another owner of H R Owen at the time, there is a high probability you're right, though.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I was driving real careful out of snowy Tignes last year, in a 2WD winter tyred Berlingo, and a 4x4 gently crashed into the back of me (as I gently came to a halt at a stop junction). The embarassed driver had evidently not mentally switched from dry tarmac to slippery snow mode.
So, bear in mind: however well equipped you & your car are, there'll be a muppet not so well equipped.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
F - Finally if you rely on Haldex make sure it's working !!!!!!!!!
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I recall your thread on the topic too
Possibly worthwhile to mention, that those with this option on vehicle (most manufacturers are using this unit for what would have been front wheel drive) to drive rear wheels. Tberes a service schedule that needs reasonably concise periodic maintenance, oil change plus filter being the normal routine.
They are a well designed component, with small hydraulic pump, lubrication system, ability to action a multiplate clutch as the key function in providing drive to rear wheels. The clutch has a friction disc set which ultimately "sheds" some material in its operative mode. The oil, filter and interval of change set to cope with that normality and keep reliable operation.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Those comments promoted me to find out more about the GLE 4matic, which I knew isn't haldex, but not much more. Seems that actually it should be better on ice and snow, it's permanent 4wd, and will brake a spinning wheel or two. Still does nothing about the laws of physics, but traction should be helped, especially using the "slippy ground" setting, which can be combined with a downhill speed limiter.
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Last year after a 15 hour day at work and about 60cm of snow over the day, I left work looking forward to a pint and a hot shower. My usual route is over a steep mountain pass which will be closed if snow is settling, due to the usual not fitting chains/not driving to the conditions issues and ensuing drama.
So I get to the pass, big queue of traffic, road is closed for the foreseeable. There is a back road behind this particular range. It’s a mission in summer - 4wd only, and in winter it’s “closed” but as it’s a dirt track, police and highways people can’t legally close it - not within their remit. The road block crew know who the local farmers and ski field workers are, that we are driving capable vehicles with recovery gear, and know what we are doing, so they usually let us through the road block to take our chances on the back road.
So off I drive past the traffic queue, get waved through the closure gate and head up this dirt track with half a metre of new snow on it….
Some clown in the traffic queue, driving a massive dodge ram with big rims and racing slicks, towing an equally massive ski boat, pulled out of the line of traffic and followed me through the road block, but tried to take the main road down the pass.
This is what happened. These photos are from a couple of days later - they couldn’t figure out how to dismantle the wreckage so just dragged it out the way. The moron causes the main highway to be closed for a whole extra day, cutting off all the local ski areas from most customers on the best powder day of the season. Hundreds of thousands in lost income.
There were a lot of locals trying to find out the guys name wanting to go have a chat with him
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Ham wrote: |
| Crosbie wrote: |
I'm just imagining coming down from a ski resort like that, with 3 winter tyres or chained summer tyres, and an un chained spacesaver, on a snow covered mountain road.
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I'm not - that would be a recovery job. One of the limited benefits of owning a Merc is that breakdown across Europe is as simple as pressing a button.
Oh boy, another Brexit Bonus 
| robs1 wrote: |
Im a farmer, I HATE spending money unnecessarily, but the small cost of all seasons over normal tyres or even buying a second set is much smaller than having a small bump because you couldn't stop and hit something, then add in the hassle factor.
We use a 4wd double cab pick up that came with M&S tyres once they got down to half worn after 25 000 miles i swapped to cross climate and sold the others on E bay , they are better on icy slopes up from where we havecstayed for the last few holidays, on the M&S I had to use the 4wd to get up last winter on the cross climates went up easily, that was on a slope i slipped over on the ice having gone down to get the wife some croissants |
Dare I guess that as a farmer you have no issues with storage? |
I think a lot of tyre places will store your spare set of tyres for you for a modest fee
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One of the things I love most about these threads is that everyone posting is apparently some cold weather driving god, and everyone else is a fool.
Come on people. Let's have some truth here about our own screw-ups, eh?
Like the time I attempted to emulate my old Defender's ability to park on giant piles of ploughed snow in otherwise full car parks, in a shiny Range Rover. It went badly, I had to be towed out, and everyone laughed at me. Luckily, I caused no blockage and everyone was very good-natured, treating me like a tourist fool rather than a menace.
Car had snow tyres on. Didn't help.
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FAQ
