After (cough) years of driving to the slopes (ok, 33) I find myself behind the wheel of a GBFO 4x4, for and because I'm into unnatural practices and caravan towing these days. I hate the size of the thing (Merc GLE) but I have to admit it does what it does rather well (That is, sit on the road and guzzle fuel while going where it wants to go, no matter what's hanging off the back).
But, I'm unsure what to do about chains etc. My inclination is to go with one, probably two, sets of snowsocks, and avoid chains. But I've never driven a 4x4 through the mountains, so think it would be prudent to hear what others do.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Ham, winter tyres. Then the chains become almost redundant.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Winter or All Season tyres and a pair of snow socks for the front wheels. You are unlikely to use them, but they will be there if you do.
Agree, winter "rated" tyres (all season type are convenient and work well) as primary mitigation for mountain in winter season. That's if you don't fancy inspecting various part of the road margins, or inadvertently ending up inside someone else's house
Its the stopping and going down what's gonna get ya, if you've not experienced this type of vehicle in snowy and generally steeper gradient environment. The kinetic mass if it gets away from normal control.
Chains will give superior steep decline braking and control if you really need something in addition to decent tyres.
Socks will be unlikely to give much over a decent winter rated tyre in all reasonable reality.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
As already said
Winter or All Season tyres
Standard tyres and you are just in a big sledge
Most of the time you will get to your destination and back on clear roads.
As you have been going for years you will know this but there may be some mewby along that thinks 4x4 on standard tyres will be fine.
We have had chains for a few cars and only one set was ever used and that was in Scotland to get to work.
+1 the above. Socks are pointless if you have full winter tyres, or snow-biased all-seasons. If money is no object, then front-fitting (front of the driven wheels, not the front wheels), chains are pretty easy to fit (e.g. Spike Spyder).
In the long run, I wish I’d bought the more expensive Spike Spiders sooner: they fit a wider range of tyre sizes than conventional chains, so are more likely to fit any replacement car.
Worth saying that even with full winter tyres and AWD, there may be times when you still need chains. In my case, I’ve had to fit chains more in order to get up a short run - like a steep icy slope in the resort, or out of an underground car park, rather than a long run of deep snow.
Don’t get me wrong about socks: they’re great if you have regular summer tyres and perhaps only take the car once a year into the mountains, where £hundreds spent on winter tyres is hard to justify. They effectively turn your summer tyres into reasonable (‘though not the best) winters. The problem still remains that summers+socks are still problematic in transitional conditions i.e. where you have alternating tarmac/snow/tarmac road surfaces. Although better than chains, which you can’t easily keep putting on, removing, then re-fitting.
If you’re close to having to replace your tyres anyway, then especially for a 4x4, it makes more sense to fit all-seasons. They’ll be far better than summers in cold wet UK winter roads anyway, with the snow capability being icing on the cake. They should be standard ex-factory, in my opinion.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Michelin Easy Grips are a good compromise for a 4x4. More effective than socks, cheaper than chains they are also reasonably flexible across a range of wheel sizes. Having said that I have only once had to use them in the last 30 years driving various 4x4s to the Alps once or twice a year.
After all it is free
After all it is free
On a Tignes social group someone has posted a pic of a poster saying the Law of The Mountains will be enforced this year. So if you don’t have 3pmsf tyres you must have chains even with M&S tyres. It also advises against snow socks.
How strictly this will be enforced is another matter. May be scope for setting up a market stall for chains just above Bourg!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
I'm very well aware that the Laws of Motion can't be monkeyed with, and the extra weight will translate into extra momentum requiring extra care. But, with drive/clever electronics to all four corners, some of the instability is countered.
Winter tyres simply aren't going to happen any time soon, no tyre has less than about 6mm tread, I can't afford the associated cost, certainly not for one xmas ski trip a year, which is all I'm likely to be doing for the foreseeable, I'm aware of how much better they would be. I've had more sets of chains than I care to think about, quite a lot on RWD too ...
Quote:
In the long run, I wish I’d bought the more expensive Spike Spiders sooner: they fit a wider range of tyre sizes than conventional chains, so are more likely to fit any replacement car.
I like the spike spiders, too, along with Konig K-Summit, but you are forgetting the One Rule of Snowchain - Whatever you think when you buy them, they will NEVER fit your next car.
I'm much more interested to hear if anyone has actually used them on a big 4x4, than what would be better. I used to drive through the night , and head off early back to the channel crossing so couldn't tolerate any delay - these days I break the journey and make it part of the trip, arriving during the day on the Saturday and stopping somewhere on the return so having to wait a while for the heaviest snow to clear isn't the end of the world. Against that, going over xmas means heading for >2000 and - for example - that last bit up to Val Thorens can be a right bug. ger.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
I appreciate the difficulty of the cost of tyre replacement for a once-a-year trip. So if this isn’t an option for you, then I’d go for socks and chains. Not socks alone. I’m looking at this for a relative and looking at the various reviews, the Goodyears get a very bad rating, while the other main brands like autosocks seem to fare much better. K&K snow socks seems to come out as the best in various reviews.
As for chains, you’re going to have to decide based on a similar cost/benefit/risk equation. Cheap, thin chains of the sort supplied by car rental companies seem to have a tendency to snap. This has happened to a relative of mine simply driving a regular RWD saloon down a snowy mountain. I’ve used mid-priced ones and they were a real pain to fit but were OK. I’ve now had the same set of Spike Spyders on my last two cars and can attest to how easy they are to fit. You decide.
I assume you’ve checked that your vehicle spec can even take chains? Quite a few SUVs and AWD models with lower profile tyres can’t. Yes, you can buy chains to match any tyre size, but you need the inside gap to be big enough for them to rotate safely, especially if they get a bit loose. My Jeep Grand Cherokee, for example, perversely couldn’t take conventional chains, because Stellantis UK fit low-profile wheels as standard on their Jeeps, rather than more practical sizes. The Owners Manual will usually have a table showing wheel and tyre sizes and snow chain compatibility, or ask a dealer service dept. My car comes in 7J, 7.5J and 8J wheels specs, but my 8J can’t take chains. If the car is 2nd hand check the previous owner hasn’t done a practical>flashy wheel switch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@LaForet, if I do go for chains, as you say, I wouldn't waste time with any of the cheaper ones, even if they fitted. The Konig K-Summits I have (From a Merc E) are excellent at fitting vehicles that would otherwise struggle, £415 for the GLE . I probably ought to try selling some of my old ones to fund the new, but there are none I've not used, so unlikely to fetch much and shipping would not be cheap.
Still like to hear from real world examples of experienced mountain drivers that have actually tried socks, rather than avoided them on principle.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Mee too, on behalf of my relative. Especially the K&K ones which seem to get the best reviews e.g. here*.
[*Caveat: this is sponsored by K&K although the reviewers claim independence (ummm) and these are on top of what I think are all-season 3PSF rated tyres.]
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Sat 25-10-25 22:35; edited 1 time in total
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@Ham, I used socks on a high power RWD BMW in the bad uk winter of 2010, they kept me fully mobile! They do work incredibly well but they were a faff to get on with low arch clearance.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@damanpunk, on one notable occasion (95 or so?) I was in a fully laden RWD Omega, about 1m of snow, blizzard falling and -10 or so. That experience DEFINED faff. Actually I failed. After trying for about an hour I could no longer feel anything let alone my fingers, there was a motor repairers nearby that had a hydraulic lift, up it went, on the chains went in a second and we were off. The best 10€ I have ever spent.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Not for the OP but anyone new to the subject: some chain sets first have to be adjusted to the specific circumference of your particular tyre size. This may involve you using pliers or similar to extend or shorten selected links in an equal way around their circumference. For my Spike Spiders, this took me about 20 minutes per chain set, so 40 minutes in all. And this was in a warm garage with a spare wheel flat on the ground, to check I’d got it right. Not something you’d want to do up a mountain, in the dark, cold and snow.
Even if your chains self-adjust, it’s a really good idea anyway to do a test fitting before your trip. Of course, easier said than done if you’re busy. But it also lets you replace the chains properly in their container, so that they’re separated and oriented for easier fitting. As my relative was kneeling in the snow last trip, trying vainly to fit their chains, I remarked that in my own snow chain bag I also carried a carpet square and some old gloves. It didn’t seem to be appreciated.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@chocksaway,
Quote:
On a Tignes social group someone has posted a pic of a poster saying the Law of The Mountains will be enforced this year.
What makes you think socks not sufficient? (question, not criticism)
Not for the OP but anyone new to the subject: some chain sets first have to be adjusted to the specific circumference of your particular tyre size. This may involve you using pliers or similar to extend or shorten selected links in an equal way around their circumference. For my Spike Spiders, this took me about 20 minutes per chain set, so 40 minutes in all. And this was in a warm garage with a spare wheel flat on the ground, to check I’d got it right. Not something you’d want to do up a mountain, in the dark, cold and snow.
Even if your chains self-adjust, it’s a really good idea anyway to do a test fitting before your trip. Of course, easier said than done if you’re busy. But it also lets you replace the chains properly in their container, so that they’re separated and oriented for easier fitting. As my relative was kneeling in the snow last trip, trying vainly to fit their chains, I remarked that in my own snow chain bag I also carried a carpet square and some old gloves. It didn’t seem to be appreciated.
This. Anyone who fails to fit their tyres before they need them in anger will struggle. It will be dark, it will be wet and it will be effing cold. FWIW, I always have a head torch and kneeling mat in the car like this https://www.amazon.co.uk/Portwest-KP05BKR-Kneeling-Regular-Black/dp/B00OHJSES0?tag=amz07b-21 and make sure I have at least two black bin bags, one to kneel on, the other to put the chains in when you take them off.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
The low profile tyre thing on modern SUVs is a pain. We have a 'performance' SUV, but even with air suspension, the stupid 21 inch low profile tyres a) give crap ride quality, b) puncture if you go anywhere off-road and c) mean winter tyres in the right size cost millions of pounds.
I bought some cheap, bashed up smaller alloys from a lower spec model off eBay and shod them with winter tyres: and these live on the car from October to April. I have had 3 winters and six alpine trips out of the front tyres, and the rears are still fine (Audi Q7 which likes eating front tyres due to having a ship anchor of an engine mounted above the front wheels).
I detest snow chains and snow socks (because I am lazy and do'nt like getting out of the car to fit them in the snow) and so have always bought proper winter tyres, which have always served me well with zero hassle, in some pretty awful conditions. Modern awd systems really are very good at trying to help, with torque vectoring, hill descent control etc. But then,I very rarely see truly awful conditions.
That said, you still need to adapt your driving. I see plenty who do not coming a cropper in the mountains - often another Brit in another shiny big SUV.
The avoidance of winter tyres reminds me of my housemate in 2014, who didn't bother putting winters on (or buying chains for) his Audi A4 awd estate, as "4x4, innit!". He got stuck in the entrance to the Ardent car park in the PdS on a busy, snowy day, and had to be towed out of a ditch. He caused a massive traffic jam all the way down the valley. The gendarmes threw the book at him.
I'd gone in earlier in my Defender on proper, narrow winters, with zero issues. Although that Land Rover was generally a pain in the mountains, frankly, apart from its ability to park on giant piles of ploughed snow in otherwise full car parks. And it looked cool. Apart from that, its rubbish hestung and woeful reliability meant that I sold it to another masochist on my return to the UK.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Sun 26-10-25 6:42; edited 1 time in total
I had to winch a GR Yaris out of a ditch a couple months ago. The driver insisted he didn't need chains on a snowy road, because it was 4wd. Im sat there in a troopy with all the tyres chained up and he wouldn't listen to me. Less than a minute later.........
It made some interesting noises getting dragged up a bank sideways.
I work on mountain roads all winter, and see plenty of whoopsies happening most days, and spend a lot of time fitting chains for people or pulling them out of ditches. Most AWD vehicles really aren't that great in snow, especially the ones with dumb big wheels. Snow tyres definitely help, but once it gets a bit icy then it's time for chains. Once you put chains on one end of a 4wd or AWD, then it basically becomes a 2wd.
my advice is just fit chains if you need them. With a bit of practice, even the cheap ones take less than two minutes per wheel. A whole lot of potential drama just goes away then. It's really not that scary, or difficult. The key to success is to untangle them first, and get them nicely laid out on the ground before sticking them on the wheel. And make sure they actually fit.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:
my advice is just fit chains if you need them. With a bit of practice, even the cheap ones take less than two minutes per wheel.
This. And don't leave it too late. SO much hassle is caused by people who do.
@hang11, I'm not going to argue that chains are best, and I'm not concerned about fitting non easy-on ones, but I don't think there are cheap options for stoopid big wheels with limited clearance. Plus, given the electronic smarts, there might well be an argument that socks on 4 wheels is better than chains on 2, as long as you don't try to argue with physics.
Do you have any experience of cars shod in the two different ways? Even if it isn't statistically valid, do you have any impression that one is any different from the other?
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I've often taken a 4x4 to the mountains over the last 30 years.
Snow/winter tyres are a must - not a nice to have. I never went with all-season, but a winter set, and a summer set. These days our 4x4 is only used rarely (for towing & snow), so the winters stay on all year.
You still have to drive carefully. Winter tyres don't transform the roads into dry summer tarmac (although transfer minibus drivers seem to think otherwise).
You only need chains for steep, snow covered gradients, e.g. >13%. So, short ramps to/from car parks can be hairy otherwise.
Stretches of ice? Studded tyres?
After all it is free
After all it is free
@Ham, Socks are never going to be as good as chains once it gets to deep snow and icy. They don't last either. Maybe if it's once or twice a year and you are talking about a bit of fresh snow on a road that's not steep then yeh it's gonna work. Guess it depends on what you actually need to do with them. Even with chains, something like a diamond pattern easy fit chain is never going to be as good as a 16mm V Bar icebreaker chain - which you would only really get on a proper 4wd with lots of clearance.
I dunno about the UK, but there are definitely cheap options for low clearance vehicles - Veriga and pewag do a 7mm clearance chain, and there's the SCC ones that are for about 6mm clearance. They all work pretty good, are easy to fit and not too expensive. I would think if you are struggling to get a chain on with even less clearance than that, then you're probably going to get bellied out and stuck pretty quickly anyway, regardless of chains.
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I'm a bit puzzled as to why so many people seem to buy incapable cars?
Quote:
We have a 'performance' SUV, but even with air suspension, the stupid 21 inch low profile tyres a) give crap ride quality, b) puncture if you go anywhere off-road and c) mean winter tyres in the right size cost millions of pounds.
Quote:
stoopid big wheels with limited clearance
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Origen wrote:
I'm a bit puzzled as to why so many people seem to buy incapable cars?
Quote:
We have a 'performance' SUV, but even with air suspension, the stupid 21 inch low profile tyres a) give crap ride quality, b) puncture if you go anywhere off-road and c) mean winter tyres in the right size cost millions of pounds.
Quote:
stoopid big wheels with limited clearance
Well, given that one of the "people" you quote is me, I shall answer directly, rather than with some slightly sneery comment.
We need a seven seater for various reasons. And I like cars, so I wanted one that was fast, a nice place to be in terms of interior, and half nice to drive for the vast majority of time that I do not use it in a muddy field or on a snowy road.
The flip side of such machines is that manufacturers fit them with big brakes (necessary) and even bigger wheels (fashion). Remove the enormous wheels with rubber band profile tyres, fit some smaller alloys and tyres with an OK sidewall, and you get something capable of carrying lots of stuff, lots of people, and going (within reason) pretty much anywhere I am going to need to take it, and towing anything I am going to need to tow.
The whole SUV thing is unnecessary, in some ways. A powerful estate car with decent tyres would be fine, but they don't do estate cars with seven seats anymore (and the old ones with rear facing seats in the boot probably wouldn't treat the rear occupants that well in a crash).
Now, is there anything else that I can help you with?
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
In contrast I drive a big specced up 4wd with all the toys on it as a necessity for work, and 90% of the time I'm using it off road in low range in some challenging conditions, where it works great.
Last week I had to do a 1,000km road trip in it. I'm still taking painkillers for my back and my shoulders are so painful from hauling it round twisty roads at speed for 13 hours
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
We’ve also got a fast SUV and on a set of Michelin PA5 it is genuinely incredible how sure footed it is in winter, even on 295 rear tyres. I’d take the practicality the rest of the year over the minor inconveniences. Doesn’t stop me wanting to chop it in for an M3 tourer though!
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Agreed! But on the long motorway drive to the Alps, the room/comfort of our car, all the electronics driver aids (radar cruise dintrol and kane keeping are amazing fatugue reducers), plus its relaxed nature at a cruise on wet weather capable winter tyres is great.
I've done the same trip (and a season) in an old Defender before, so I know what suits the Alps better for me. And it isn't the old Land Rover with its "proper" 4x4 and diff locks etc., that's for sure.
We have a set of chains. Never needed to use them.
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much on Sun 26-10-25 10:31; edited 1 time in total
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Quote:
The whole SUV thing is unnecessary, in some ways. A powerful estate car with decent tyres would be fine, but they don't do estate cars with seven seats anymore (and the old ones with rear facing seats in the boot probably wouldn't treat the rear occupants that well in a crash).
But why don't they do 7 seater estate cars as they are very practical for lots of people? I had a 7 seater (not SUV) and always felt uncomfortable about the safety of the back seats, because of not being able to get out, and the thought that quite a minor rear-end shunt could make it hard to open the back door. But those seats were front-facing. I would have thought rear facing seats were in general safer than front facing - isn't that why babies must be in rear facing seats?
I suppose the "whole SUV thing" is down to fashion, and will change in time, as fashion does.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Origen wrote:
I'm a bit puzzled as to why so many people seem to buy incapable cars?
Quote:
We have a 'performance' SUV, but even with air suspension, the stupid 21 inch low profile tyres a) give crap ride quality, b) puncture if you go anywhere off-road and c) mean winter tyres in the right size cost millions of pounds.
Quote:
stoopid big wheels with limited clearance
And as another I will answer, too.
I actively dislike the fashion for GBFO 4x4 for the school run etc, as they seem to be used in metropolitan areas. I think that they are dangerous gas guzzling beasts.
But.
A few years ago (v early covid) my wife and I decided to take the plunge into caravaning, something we had been considering for some time, and we enjoy it. My car was a capable tow car, but when we changed the van for one that better suited our use with grandchildren, I found myself towing ~100% of car weight (recommended max is 85%). While that was within the technical towing capability it led to a very unpleasant experience, with a lot of tail wagging dog. So for comfort and safety I changed to a big 4x4, which has proved to be a very effective choice. We have another small car that gets used as a run around, and I'm much more likely to be found on a bike than the car.
The genre of car ("Luxury" large SUV, Q7, GLE, Range Rover) is VERY capable, the control electronics are actually awesome, but (a) the fashion choices of wheels make for limited choice when it comes to snow chains and (b) You can't argue with physics, but the control systems go a long way to hide the limitations from the average driver, who will then come a cropper when physics takes over.
Quote:
Socks are never going to be as good as chains once it gets to deep snow and icy. They don't last either. Maybe if it's once or twice a year and you are talking about a bit of fresh snow on a road that's not steep then yeh it's gonna work. Guess it depends on what you actually need to do with them.
What I need to do is get up and down to a 2,000m resort once a year at Christmas time. Safely. That's it. I live in London and I can't imagine circumstances when I need to take the car out in snow and ice. Getting out of a mountain car park can be fun I know, but I'll take my chances with finding carpets and stuff if the 4x4 doesn't cut the mustard.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I don't think the 'fashion' aspect of them will change anytime soon unless it's due to government meddling, the trend for a long time has been cars getting larger. Although day to day I drive a more compact car, I can see the appeal for most people with extra cabin space, luggage space etc.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
More a philosophical point than anything. I’ve had a 4x4 of some type for over 40 years (started with the old Suzuki 410 - great vehicle that I used to enter off-road trials in). I can just about justify ownership compared to my suburban neighbours. 3 years ago I was trying to find an (ideally PHEV) replacement for my aging Discovery Sport. I was warned off the new PHEV Disco Sport by the salesman because of its limited electric range and subsequent limited 4x4 range. The best I could come up with was the Rav 4. It was fitted with low profile allow wheels and tyres. I asked if it could be fitted with steel wheels and deeper rubber as it would frequently used in mud and (hopefully) snow. After much scratching of heads and discussions with HQ, I was told it would be impossible and I may not get insurance for the vehicle even if it was. Whilst I was not totally convinced by what I was told, it was enough to put me off the purchase. Not just Toyota of course but by and large SUVs are promoted for their ability beyond standard tarmac, but come with footwear that is totally unsuitable. Of course we all know that most of the SUVs that are sold these days will stay on their suburban drives like any other car come snow, but not to have steel wheel options seems amazingly short-sighted. When the original Freelander came out I purchased one and asked for a steel wheel option. The dealer agreed to supply. When I picked it up it came with the original alloys, but with a set of steels and appropriate rubber parked in the boot as a freebie. Clearly these days the number of folk in the U.K. who will ever deploy snowchains is very small, but putting full-fat snow chains on alloys risks immediate superficial damage.
For the record, I ended up with a normally aspirated Subaru as an interim measure, which does have alloys, but at least it has deep rubber.
I guess we collectively only have ourselves to blame.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Origen wrote:
Quote:
The whole SUV thing is unnecessary, in some ways. A powerful estate car with decent tyres would be fine, but they don't do estate cars with seven seats anymore (and the old ones with rear facing seats in the boot probably wouldn't treat the rear occupants that well in a crash).
But why don't they do 7 seater estate cars as they are very practical for lots of people? I had a 7 seater (not SUV) and always felt uncomfortable about the safety of the back seats, because of not being able to get out, and the thought that quite a minor rear-end shunt could make it hard to open the back door. But those seats were front-facing. I would have thought rear facing seats were in general safer than front facing - isn't that why babies must be in rear facing seats?
I suppose the "whole SUV thing" is down to fashion, and will change in time, as fashion does.
I suspect that seven seat estate cars do not exist because rear facing seats in the boot are not safe, and so you need the high roofline of an SUV or MPV body to get a front facing third row in. But when I am driving a load of people plus gear around, the rear seats are great. They aren't much cop for long trips (and aren't needed for them as on those, it is just the immediate family in the car), but they get used as short trip seats, a lot.
Anyway, this wasn't a debate about seats. I responded to your comment about "people" buying unsuitable cars, with a comment that mine is eminently suitable for my needs and wants. Swapping the comedy oversized wheels for something more suitable was an acceptable compromise to get the other benefits of the vehicle.
I'm a bit puzzled as to why so many people seem to buy incapable cars?
The vehicles are generally perfectly capable, but the manufacturers spec them for their target market. In the UK that target market is not primarily (or even secondarily) people who want to drive in snow, so consideration for fitting chains is not taken into account. So they fit them with big wheels to look good on the school run and to give them better ride quality and, arguably, better handling on normal roads.
The buyer, very often, is unaware of this until such time as they decide that their wonderful Chelsea tractor is the perfect vehicle for their ski trip except, oops, chains won't fit.
I had exactly that scenario when I bought my first awd car, a Volvo V70XC, back in 1999 or so, before we lived over here, so we ended up having to buy some much more expensive hub-mounted chain like these https://www.snowchainstore.co.uk/snow-chains-rud-centrax-n-894 TBF they're also much easier to fit, and feel much secure to drive on, than most cheaper chains, so no regrets. After the first season over here (although we weren't yet living in the mountains, just driving there to ski most winter weekends) I shelled out for some smaller wheels with winter tyres that may have actually allowed normal chains to be fitted.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@Ham, The thing on socks was lifted from the advertising stuff on the Loi de Montagne poster, not my words.
Socks can be OK but wear quickly on changeable surfaces and can easily aquaplane.
For me 3pmsf, Awd and a pair of SuperU €39 chains, which will probably never get used - just like the last lot over 11 seasons.
The whole SUV thing is unnecessary, in some ways. A powerful estate car with decent tyres would be fine, but they don't do estate cars with seven seats anymore (and the old ones with rear facing seats in the boot probably wouldn't treat the rear occupants that well in a crash).
But why don't they do 7 seater estate cars as they are very practical for lots of people? I had a 7 seater (not SUV) and always felt uncomfortable about the safety of the back seats, because of not being able to get out, and the thought that quite a minor rear-end shunt could make it hard to open the back door. But those seats were front-facing. I would have thought rear facing seats were in general safer than front facing - isn't that why babies must be in rear facing seats?
I suppose the "whole SUV thing" is down to fashion, and will change in time, as fashion does.
I suspect that seven seat estate cars do not exist because rear facing seats in the boot are not safe, and so you need the high roofline of an SUV or MPV body to get a front facing third row in. But when I am driving a load of people plus gear around, the rear seats are great. They aren't much cop for long trips (and aren't needed for them as on those, it is just the immediate family in the car), but they get used as short trip seats, a lot.
Anyway, this wasn't a debate about seats. I responded to your comment about "people" buying unsuitable cars, with a comment that mine is eminently suitable for my needs and wants. Swapping the comedy oversized wheels for something more suitable was an acceptable compromise to get the other benefits of the vehicle.
I'm not pointing at anyone on this thread, but there's often judgement on the forum about certain vehicle type, that from a socio-economic sneering outlook. Ultimately to stifle intelligent sharing of opinion and practical application.
We've run a long term VW Touran with 7 good seats, but not realised in general is that putting seven adult in it firstly takes luggage space down significantly and just as importantly (and not often accompanied by awareness) the overall gross vehicle weight is fast approached and more limited for that vehicle type than a larger one.
Quite often when summer camping there's reasonable number of vehicle with roof box, cycle carrier, persons etc that in in likelihood are marginal or exceeding the vehicle specs for safe operation. Nobody points those out as "poverty spec family box" in the fashion thats casually put toward descriptors of something bigger thats far more accomplished at carrying that level of loading.
Met someone with family this summer camping with a Q7 that people may use such casual criticism towards. Chatting to them, its used extensively commercial business towing, and bought because of that ultimate capacity, and operate safely under that use, 340 thousand miles on it too.
Broadly similar in some ways to the OP vehicle in tow capacity etc, for topic relevant contribution.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
The trouble in the UK re mainstream cars is that manufacturers still fit summer tyres when all-seasons would be a far better solution, especially for cold and increasingly wet winter conditions. On top of that, they tart-up regular models with low-profile wheels that admittedly slightly improve warm dry handling, but degrade wet road holding and ride comfort. And for SnowHead owners, these also can’t take snow chains.
So many of us are left with owning a vehicle otherwise entirely suitable for our needs and effective in Alpine conditions, but with wheels and tyres that are just wrong for cold and snow. And wrong even for UK winters.
This isn’t just SUVs or performance AWD models. My little Peugeot 208 GT has - you guessed it - wheels which can’t take conventional snow chains. It’s no different to the next model down, other than it has options that are cheaper bought in the GT form. Then some idiot at Stellantis decided the UK version would get low-profile wheels/tyres that it really doesn’t need.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Sun 26-10-25 22:34; edited 2 times in total
After all it is free
After all it is free
Harry Flashman wrote:
Origen wrote:
Quote:
The whole SUV thing is unnecessary, in some ways. A powerful estate car with decent tyres would be fine, but they don't do estate cars with seven seats anymore (and the old ones with rear facing seats in the boot probably wouldn't treat the rear occupants that well in a crash).
But why don't they do 7 seater estate cars as they are very practical for lots of people? I had a 7 seater (not SUV) and always felt uncomfortable about the safety of the back seats, because of not being able to get out, and the thought that quite a minor rear-end shunt could make it hard to open the back door. But those seats were front-facing. I would have thought rear facing seats were in general safer than front facing - isn't that why babies must be in rear facing seats?
I suppose the "whole SUV thing" is down to fashion, and will change in time, as fashion does.
I suspect that seven seat estate cars do not exist because rear facing seats in the boot are not safe, and so you need the high roofline of an SUV or MPV body to get a front facing third row in. But when I am driving a load of people plus gear around, the rear seats are great. They aren't much cop for long trips (and aren't needed for them as on those, it is just the immediate family in the car), but they get used as short trip seats, a lot.
The Peugeut 504 Familiale had three rows of seats, all facing forwards, there was a similar Citroën CX model too.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Quote:
who will then come a cropper when physics takes over
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
chocksaway wrote:
@Ham, The thing on socks was lifted from the advertising stuff on the Loi de Montagne poster, not my words.
Socks can be OK but wear quickly on changeable surfaces and can easily aquaplane.
For me 3pmsf, Awd and a pair of SuperU €39 chains, which will probably never get used - just like the last lot over 11 seasons.
I thought, that if anything is going to shed some light on whether they are allowed
Quote:
La Loi Montagne, officiellement mise en place depuis le mois de novembre 2021, est une réglementation française destinée à mieux encadrer et à renforcer la sécurité routière dans les régions montagneuses durant l’hiver. Cette loi impose notamment aux automobilistes qui circulent dans certaines zones géographiques de s’équiper de pneus hiver obligatoires ou de dispositifs antidérapants amovibles, comme les chaînes et chaussettes à neige. Cette obligation est en vigueur chaque année, par décret, du 1er novembre au 31 mars.
And there, it says snow socks are sufficient. As to the question of which snow socks are approved, I suspect M. LeFlic will not care too much but I would like to know.
I'm aware that they wouldn't wear well, but they are insurance basically.
It's curious that there seems to be so little real life experience of them, in a community that uses equipment de neige frequently
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
. I probably ought to try selling some of my old ones to fund the new, but there are none I've not used, so unlikely to fetch much and shipping would not be cheap.
