Advice about instructor courses in France

A snowHead

Hi all, I'd appreciate some team advice, please.

My son is taking a year out pre-university next year (Sept 2026 onwards) and it's always been his dream to do his instructor course early in the season, then stay on to teach until Easter. I am, obviously, not in the slightest bit jealous Very Happy

We're lucky enough that we can lend him the money, with the plan that he'll pay it back to us over the season when he starts work.

Has anyone got any recommendations? He'd like to be in France as he can speak French (though this isn't a deal-breaker), and get minimum BASI Level 2.

All advice gratefully received Smile

A snowHead

@Murphyd, Does he have (or can get) an EU passport?

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Huge can of worms. I'd say make him do the research on viable options and pitch it to you like a business plan with adequate attention on proving the numbers can pay you back.

Why? Because not all courses deliver jobs and secure work (plus little issue if he is UK passport of EU working entitlement).

I'd heartily recommend going to do a season but I'd look at a way that didn't involve spending a lot of money upfront. A regular job with an outfit willing to go through the visa hassle would probably be a lot better financially and in terms of his own time on snow.

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As stated, France is a problem, but Switzerland may be an option. I've taught here on and off since 2011 when I first did my BASI L1; the qualification itself (and the higher levels) is not officially recognised, but nor is any Swiss one until you get right up to the Patent (equiv of BASI 4, Carte Pro etc.) so the majority of working instructors in ski schools are essentially viewed as trainees. But it will affect the rate of pay, such that a BASI L2 should be getting something like chf30 per hour, possibly more, whereas a lot of the Swiss beginner instructors will be less qualified and less well paid. Which also means that they won't always be stuck teaching novice kids groups, for example Very Happy

If he wants to stick with his French, then there's at least two operators in Verbier, I suggest you search for others.

Warren Smith has a great reputation going back years https://www.warrensmith-skiacademy.com/ski-instructor-training/
I don't know anything about the other one I found https://easkiandsnowboard.com/resorts/switzerland bu they also offer course in Zermatt and Saas Fee, which although predominantly German speaking are also in Valais which is an officially bilingual canton, so hid French would not be completely useless.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Thanks @Dave & @rjs

I'm not imagining he'll pay all the money back; as long as he makes an effort & gets somewhere close to paying us, I'm happy to write some off towards him gaining a qualification he can use in the future.

He has a UK passport, which I know limits his options.

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@chaletbeuroc - thank you, that's really helpful.

I'll definitely start him looking at Swiss courses. I'll also start the process of applying for an Irish passport for him through my grandad....

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

As ever with doing a season in the mountains nowadays, the real problem is accommodation - at least he's giving himself plenty of time to find some.

After all it is free

@Murphyd, I notice that the Warren Smith one is now doing the Irish qualification (IASA) rather than BASI, it's not clear what system the other one is doing. This is not necessarily significant unless he's thinking of pursuing a career and going all the way through to the top level.

It's generally considered, as far as I can tell, that the ISIA is not as thorough, or as difficult, if you prefer, at least at the lower levels, as BASI, but I only have experience of the latter. As per a recent thread, it's certainly true that BASI instructors are generally respected as being competent by their Swiss colleagues. No idea if they have a view of IASA

But you should establish with any provider exactly what course/qualification they're offering, and whether that has any significant effect on future employment or progression.

Oh, and don't get the Irish system, IASI, mixed up with the governing body the ISIA, which confusingly is also used to refer to the international qualification that's granted at BASI L3 or equivalent.

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If you compare his current skiing to the BASI Level 1 & 2 standards videos, where does he stand? If he is good enough to pass level 1 and 2, or doesn't need much work to pass L2, an alternative is to do the L1 in a dome now and do the L2 this season (there are some L2 courses in the late season). This will make him more employable if he's already L2 qualified. Obviously if he's a long way from passing L2 then this wouldn't work.

If he passed his L2 this season he can then at least train from late November to Jan for L3 wherever there are courses and work in Italy for either Interski or other similar providers who will take on Brits on a British passport. He can then either mix that up with training by traveling back and forth to the training base for his L3 or just stay in the resort and work for said provider for the season. If he works for Interski his accommodation will be paid for so that brings down the final bill.

If he is open to this idea, just make sure he gets a visa for his training so he doesn't use up the 90 days for when he teaches in Italy.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

@Murphyd[/b], my view is pretty similar to @garricw. How good is your son?

He's massively limited by the UK passport, realistically Aosta valley is his only real option in Europe, others are out there but more tricky.

Have you/he considered Canada or Japan? Working holiday visas are available for both countries and should be considered.

At L1 and L2, I really think it makes no difference if he does BASI or IASI. I've done IASI, @garricw has done BASI. It really won't make any difference to his work prospects, they're both part of ISIA after all. I actually think they make virtually no difference full stop.

I'd recommend your son does his L1 asap if he's up to it, try and gain some experience for the next 6 months at your local dry slope/indoor slope, and then maybe look in to a L2 during the summer next year. IASI run these through Warren Smith on the glacier in Cervinia in the summer.

Then you've got a L2 qualification and teaching experience and it'll be much easier to find work next season. It'll also cost considerably less than a gap course. This does rely on your son being at a good standard already.

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I was in the same spot as your son last year so hopefully my experience might be of some help. With a UK passport your options when it comes to getting work after your course can be rather limited. From my research the best options for the whole package were either the UK or Japan, and I went with the latter as I have always had a fascination with the culture there (although the culture in the resorts is definitely more... Australian) and the consistent and quality snow you get out there.

I went with one of the firms (not EA, avoid for various reasons) that does the whole package (visa support, training, certification and guaranteed job). Was it expensive? Yes. Was it worth it? Absolutely. The support and level of training we received throughout the process was incredibly helpful, and there was so many things I definitely would have stumbled with on my own. I have made a bunch of lifelong friends from the group I was apart of and the fact that you get to stick with everyone through your training and exams, on to your job and days off was awesome. I decided to go for NZSIA Level 1 & 2, and I'm really happy I decided to pick the latter too (it was optional). I was not an experienced skiier, as I had about 3 weeks on real snow in the alps (2 of them without any instruction) and some trips to hemel, so I was definitely struggling on the confidence side of things when I first arrived.

For Level 1 we had 2 weeks of training, although only just over a week of that was actually skiing, as when we arrived the mountain looked very... green, and definitely incompatible with skiing. This was obviously frustrating, and definitely worrying because I had to get some practice in on the snow, and there is no snowmaking in Niseko. However, this anxiety was pretty short lived, as during the last week of November the taps turned on, and stayed on for pretty much an entire month (we had the deepest December in 68 years). Our instructors were all NZSIA examiners, which was great because learning from someone who conducts the exams themselves is definitely rewarding because they have the deepest knowledge of the specification. The first few days were tough, because trying to teach skiing in a gravel car park is definitely an experience, but the instructors were really good at making the most of it and we really focused on the teaching side of things which allowed us to really focus on and dial in the technical side of the exam when we got onto the snow. I really improved and the exam went great, and in the end the thing I struggled on most was actually doing the wedge/snowplough demonstration (who would have known how technical the wedge can get Laughing

). I thought NZSIA was great, and the online e-learning resources were really helpful and clear.

After the Level 1 we were quickly onboarded to our ski school, and it was mostly a great experience. Wages were low (it is Japan at the end of the day) but rent and food was ridiculously cheap, and we lived in blocks of staff accommodation along with a lot of the lifties and resort staff, which was really cool because there was a lot of opportunity to socialise and make new friends and find cool people to ski with. Work was super busy during the peak season (you could pretty much work every day if you wanted the cash) but there was always opportunities to take time off and go chase some powder. I wasn't really there to make money, so I found myself scheduling days off for most powder days (although in Niseko pretty much every day is a powder day so I would pick days with over 30cm) and we definitely had the opportunity to do that, and I definitely don't regret it. I progressed really quickly, and really got deep into the off-piste side of things, and pretty much fell in love with it right away. Work got quieter in March, but that just meant more time to ski so I definitely wasn't complaining. While a lot of the lessons were teaching never-evers, I actually had a decent amount of higher level stuff, and even had the opportunity to go powder skiing in the gates during a couple of lessons

Towards the end of March the people who opted for Level 1 mostly went home, and the bunch of us who decided to stay for Level 2 handed in our instructor badges and begun 3 weeks of full day training for Level 2. This was seriously tough compared to Level 1, and there were times during those 3 weeks where I decided I hated skiing, but that was pretty short lived because I found myself instantly falling in love with it again as soon as I managed to crack each one of the things that was holding me back. We had the same level of instruction for Level 2, with our trainer being an examiner, and my skiing massively improved throughout those weeks. I almost wish we could have taken Level 2 earlier in the season like some of the other course structures you can find, because of how much I learned during it, but looking back having constant back to back training and exams would have been really tough. I worked really hard and passed my Level 2, which I'm really happy about and definitely don't regret because I'm actually heading back to Niseko in 5 weeks for another winter out there (if you actually want your son to go to uni a season can be dangerous Laughing

)

While you can probably manage to arrange everything yourself, there is definitely some value in these instructor courses, and I would go back and do it again in a heartbeat, even with everything I experienced during it. He should definitely do that ski season (it was the best 6 months of my life) even if it involves trekking a bit further than the alps and ending up 6000 miles away. Obviously you also have to consider it might not always be like this, my group had a great experience but I met other people out there on other instructor courses who definitely didn't have as great of a time, and definitely heard some horror stories, so really do your research.

Here's a little video recap of my season, pretty much in chronological order:

http://youtube.com/v/5kgZF4MBN08

There are better and cheaper ways to do a season than instructor course and then teaching. In fact if you actually want to spend your time skiing instructor is one of the worst jobs (yes you will be "on snow" but you will likely be teaching beginners - or even worse picking up crying kids as a glorified nanny - rather than skiing how and what you want. Unless he plans to make a long term career out of teaching why bother doing training to be an instructor? If he plans to be an instructor long term then why bother doing a university course

I get in instructor course is just the done thing for gap year kids. Middle class parent like telling their friends their kid is a ski instructor and there is the justification "they will come out with a qualification". Believe me the seasonaires working in bars won't be jealous Laughing

You know it makes sense.

Last November I did a first aid course in Kaprun with a bunch of youngsters who were doing the BASI L1 in November before flying out to Japan to teach for the season, quite similar to what @1nf did, except they did their BASI L1.

I was astounded at the price these kids (more likely their parents) were paying. @Murphyd if your son is at the L1 standard already, really do think about it from a financial perspective.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

Just looked at level 1/2 courses in France. £7.5k for 6 weeks or £10k for 10 weeks, including food and accommodation.
Obviously not cheap, but when you factor in the amount of instruction you're getting and that everything is taken care of, I don't think it's unreasonable.
Theses courses don't have jobs attached, so you'd get a lot of skiing done.

A snowHead

You'll get lots of info about how you could do it cheaper, and whether your child NEEDS an instructor course, which is all valid, but if you're looking for a package (accomodation, training, work experience, exams, general hand holding) and some structure to a season then these courses do have a place. The post-brexit situation is inevitably more complicated but I did a nov-feb course with https://www.peakleaders.com/gap-course-resorts/verbier/ and ended up teaching in verbier (french speaking) for 4 seasons and having the time of my life. They seem to have lots of info re passports/permits on their site.......

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I think gap courses offer lots of (typically) high quality instruction, where you are part of a like-minded group for an extended period of time on snow. In my book that's a good thing, if you can afford the cost. The social side, especially if you are in shared accommodation, will be more or less important, depending on your preferences. If you come out with a L1 or L2 qualification at the end of the process that's also a good thing in my book, as it indicates an understanding of how skiing works and the ability to ski with some precision, not to especially high standards but better than most recreational skiers. But I think it's a mistake to assume that qualification will immediately translate in to a reasonable earning potential in which some or all of the costs of the training and assessment will be paid back in short order. That wasn't the case before Brexit, and it's more difficult for UK passport holders since Brexit.

As @boarder2020 said, there are other ways of spending a chunk of cash and having an enjoyable winter season, so perhaps the key question is whether your son thinks he will enjoy teaching and learning to teach. That's critical to any intentions your son might have to use the qualification as the majority of his experience, if he can find a ski school that will employ a newly qualified UK passport holder, as the majority of people he'll be teaching will be kids and beginners. That's not to say that the gap course doesn't have other benefits such as lots of high quality coaching, the discipline of being out in all weathers and snow conditions, the camaraderie of working with your fellow candidates, etc, etc. But ultimately, an enjoyment of teaching will be necessary.

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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@boarder2020 maybe it was a unique situation but a lot of the time it is just whizzing around on the mountain guiding people around. Some people where just not interested in any level of instruction, and just wanted me to take them or their family on slopes of their skill level and then point them to the best restaurants, and usually they would invite me a long too. I quite enjoyed these lessons because they were a lot less work, even though it can be really frustrating when you want to help someone improve but they don't want to hear it, but at the end of the day they are just paying for a friend to ski with that day, and not an instructor. Those lessons always tip really well too for some reason. It's definitely not just picking kids up on the bunny slope all day, even as a level 1.

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You can almost say the same about uni degrees too. Not too few students finished but hated the work!

Many 17 year olds simply don’t know what they like or dislike, as they’ve been told to do this and that up to that point.

So instead of relying on the “structure” and “handholding” of the gap year course, might it not be better to let them loose and start learning to figure themselves out?

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

Id get them into a L1 indoors if you can, see if they pass, see what feedback they get and see if they enjoy the course and the 30 hours shadowing, then look at booking a L2 course abroad or a longer training course if they need it!

@rob@rar, exactly that. I'm going to wager that 99% of "graduates" from these courses never teach a lesson afterwards in their lives.

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@1nf, Over my seasons in Canada living in hostels I've probably met around 40 kids on gap year instructor courses. The vast majority of them as bottom of the rung new instructors got given kids and/or complete beginners, while the long term instructors got given/cherry picked the "fun" clients. I can't really blame the companies allowing this to happen, they know 99% of the gap year kids won't be back next season so better to keep the regulars sweet. This was the case for multiple resorts, so not just a one-off thing. Often there wasn't even enough work, some days you'd turn up and get sent away, so for those relying on wages to survive it was better to just take whatever you could get. Most couldn't quite because their ski pass was tied to their job and couldn't afford to buy one.

I've "guided" people around a bit. Even then it's still not the same as having complete freedom. The kind of people taking lessons are typically not that great skiers (and the ones that are probably want to focus on improvement rather than just skiing about - and I suspect wont be given some level 2 18 year old!) and fwiu you can't take them off piste in europe without further qualifications.

As said above if you really love teaching and want to make a career being a ski instructor do the qualifications. If you just want a season on snow skiing a lot there are better (and cheaper) options.

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@boarder2020, I definitely get that, and I do agree that if you were doing it for wages to survive it would be rough. I paid for everything and was able to live off my remote job in software, which meant that if I saw a never-ever lesson in my schedule, I would often choose to pass that lesson off to someone else, and go ski myself that day. I got a lot out of being a ski instructor, like the £100/month rent, and the ski pass for all resorts on the mountain (other staff only got the one resort, and had to pay a huge chunk to get the full pass, and most people working in hospitality didn't get a pass at all). I also think that the training and the exams themselves for the qualifications were worth it on their own, even if you don't plan on a career as a ski instructor, because they completely transformed my skiing and I learned so much which massively improved my personal enjoyment too. Although at the same time, it is a steep investment for a one time thing, and maybe if I wasn't planning on doing seasons for a while just living as a ski bum for a season might have been a better choice. But since I'm going back, it's definitely worth it for me, because my travel out there has been covered for this season, and I get the same cheap rent, and obviously as a returner the lessons are going to be a lot more fun and I'll be getting a lot more VIP stuff with the tips that come along with that too.

When it comes to the "guiding" stuff, it might be different out here, because we are allowed to go "off piste" (we have a great backcountry gate that we are insured to use, and a ton of ungroomed inbounds areas) and a lot of people just want someone to make sure they don't get lost (visibility is regularly terrible and it's definitely daunting sometimes) or just want someone to show them the best spots to get fresh turns throughout the day. We also have a cat skiing operation that lets you go up really early in the morning and get first tracks, which always requires a couple of instructors, and also the same thing but with the gondola opening an hour early.

I do enjoy teaching most of the time but it's definitely not why I work as an instructor, I just do lessons to be able to have the lifestyle out here that lets me ski all the time.

@1nf, sounds like your season was great fun, but not the typical season!

On the point of doing exams to improve, I totally agree with you there, and my own skiing improved through exams too. If my only goal though was to just become a better skier, then I wouldn't do that via exams, I'd just do training weeks, or exam prep weeks that are focussed on improving the top end techniques, and forget about all the central theme/ core skier development type stuff.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

But he has the best part of a year to plan his gap year. Should have it all sorted out before the busy run up to A levels?

A snowHead

@Murphyd,
I'm guessing he is 17.
Ask him if he really wants to become a ski instructor, or if he sees this as a way to do a ski season . If the latter, is he aware of the other ways of being a seasonnaire? Does he want to maximize his quality mountain time?

If you can get him Irish citizenship, and hence an Irish passport then the work opportunities open up for him, especially with UK tour operators, but also locally owned businesses in France, since you specified the country.
Get back to us if he is open to other ways to work a season & we can advise. At least he's thinking ahead - so many people start looking for work around now for the upcoming season when you start looking in the Spring before, latest!

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Going off to be a ski bum for a season for £5k is all very well, but to become a good ski bum lessons will be needed. And also the need to be up and out at 9am. It’s very easy to be there for a whole season and not bother on days when too much was imbibed the night before, or the weather is fractionally inclement.

Lessons are a discipline. It’s a real shame there isn’t a L1 equivalent for people who have no desire to do the actual teaching!

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Well but if you can ski you probably also have no desire to learn to snowplough!

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

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Advice about instructor courses in France

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