 Poster: A snowHead
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| Origen wrote: |
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| You would need to double check there won't be visa issues if you arrive via Geneva Airport. |
There might well be, if the visa provides you can only arrive in France. Although Gva has a "French side" it's complicated. I hosted some people with Zimbabwe passports and arranged for a "attestation d'acceuil" from the local mairie. I could only do that because I had a local residence. The party arrived on an international flight (from London) and went through to the "French" part of the airport but their baggage was in international arrivals and somebody with right of entry into Switzerland had to go and get it all. Travelling (with my car and two rental cars) was complicated too as couldn't enter Switzerland. It was all a bit of a nightmare, really.
And the OP has already said they'll be flying into Paris. |
Aha, we're on a similar wavelength there. I posted before seeing your reply.
I would have thought you would collect baggage prior to leaving through the French side, pretty sure that's what I have done previously, but it seems like there could be all sorts of difficulties if the visa won't allow entry to Switzerland. 
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Mon 20-10-25 14:07; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
| If Geneva, which is mostly on Swiss territory and the main exit is via Swiss border control & customs, so does that mean you have to go to the far end of the airport to get to the French Border & Customs to get the visa validated first?? |
I don`t know where the issue with Geneva came from. We arrive in Paris and then we`re free to fly to any country in the Schengen area, but so far I don't understand if this makes sense. It was mentioned above that food prices in Italy or in Austria are roughly the same, while accommodation is cheaper in France.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Evod wrote: |
| Quote: |
| If Geneva, which is mostly on Swiss territory and the main exit is via Swiss border control & customs, so does that mean you have to go to the far end of the airport to get to the French Border & Customs to get the visa validated first?? |
I don`t know where the issue with Geneva came from. We arrive in Paris and then we`re free to fly to any country in the Schengen area, but so far I don't understand if this makes sense. It was mentioned above that food prices in Italy or in Austria are roughly the same, while accommodation is cheaper in France. |
OK, it's clear now, you're arriving into Paris, getting a Schengen visa there which allows onward travel to any Schengen country including Switzerland, Austria or Italy 
Geneva was first choice as it seems closer, but an extra 15 mins in the air could get you anywhere in the Alps. Flights to other cities might even be cheaper?? Have you booked the Geneva flights?
I wouldn't say that like for like any of those countries is cheaper than the other. You do get smaller shoebox apartments in France that may appear cheaper, but you wouldn't necessarily want to spend a romantic week in one. Eating out in resort and on the mountain is usually better quality and cheaper in Italy. Austria has some great integrated public transport options which might save money on transfers.
So you need to calculate the cost overall, from when you leave Paris, so the flight, the transfers, the accommodation, the lift pass, the equipment hire, the food options. I suspect the costs would vary more by resort than by country per se.
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I hope I haven't confused things further, we could certainly suggest options all over the Alps, but if you want a simple answer, you can't get better than @admin's advice here, focusing your search on Les Houches in the Chamonix Valley, there'll be buses to Chamonix from Geneva and a good local bus service connecting Les Houches into Chamonix for evenings out:
| admin wrote: |
Chamonix!
- It is in France.
- It is a big enough town in itself to have good options (restaurants and bars/clubs) for a birthday night out.
- While it is generally renowned for it's extreme skiing and broken up ski area, one of those areas (is it Les Houches?) is more beginner friendly.
- As beginners, you won't cover so much terrain that one area (such as Les Houches) gets boring, so you can probably get a way with a local lift pass, which is cheaper.
- I'd expect there to be lots of instructors available around there that week.
I'd say, base yourself in Les Houches for most convenient access to the slopes there, and jump in a cab to Chamonix town proper for the Birthday.
That said, I also agree with most of the advice above too 
Welcome to snowHeads @Evod
PS. as it's your first time, it's definitely worth doing an intro session (or two) in one of the indoor snow slopes, the week before.
It gets you familiar with the kit and the sense of sliding and even just a 2hr session, a few days before hand, will speed up learning when you get there. |
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Mon 20-10-25 14:35; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Layne wrote: |
@Evod, welcome to SH's.
My take is that you pandering too much. No way I'd be schlepping to a city for a birthday night out in the middle of a ski holiday.
Les Saisies and Megeve should be fine - that week will be fairly quiet everywhere and snow will be decent. |
It's hard to disagree. If your girlfriend prefers a city break birthday I would book a separate trip. It's crackers to travel to a ski resort then travel for hours to a night out in the middle of the holiday, only to travel back to the ski resort and then travel back to the airport a couple of days later .
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[quote="luigi"]
| Quote: |
| I hope I haven't confused things further, we could certainly suggest options all over the Alps, but if you want a simple answer, you can't get better than @admin's advice here: |
I think I've confused it more with my multiple conditions.
I've put off the birthday issue until I'll find a way to celebrate without leaving the resort.
So I was initially considering France because we're flying there. I'm not against other countries, but Austria and Italy are out because:
- the flight from Paris to Austria (not Vienna, which is far away from resorts) is expensive
- the cost of accommodation in Italy (for example, in Alta Badia) starts at several thousand euros per week.
Thanks to SH, my request was reduced to two conditions:
1. Inexpensive (so not Chamonix)
2. With plenty of easy slopes for my sister and girlfriend
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Corvara/Alta Badia is probably the nicest ski resort in Italy, but that also makes it one of the most expensive to stay in!
The local tourist office has accommodation that isn't on the usual booking sites.
https://www.altabadia.org/en/accommodations-alta-badia/hotels-bed-and-breakfast-apartments
There are other options nearby like La Villa which is often cheaper.
I found this in Alba di Canazei for your dates: https://www.booking.com/Share-5epOdNV
Not far from the lift that goes up the quiet Ciampac beginners area. Might be a bit tricky getting transfers to there though.
@admin suggested staying in Les Houches, not Chamonix town. Have you looked there?
This is available for your dates: https://www.booking.com/Share-BqIn2V
EDIT: to add correct link for Les Houches
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Mon 20-10-25 16:20; edited 3 times in total
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Chamonix need not be expensive - it all depends what you do. Drinking in bars is expensive in most places, but buying stuff in a supermarket to drink in your apartment is not.
Les Saisies will be generally cheaper than Chamonix but harder to get to. Though train from Paris to Albertville, then bus, is a good option. The only proper hotel is, in my view, stupidly expensive - 2K euros that week for a double, bed and breakfast only. In Chamonix there are hostels (probably not what you're looking for) and a range of self-catering accommodation. Hotels are also always an expensive option for singles, as rooms cost what they cost regardless of whether one or two people are in them, and proper single rooms are hard to find.
Snow quality probably more reliable in Saisies than in Les Houches, where the "bottom" is quite low. But early January shouldn't be too risky for snow. Find out, wherever you go, where the ski school meets - it won't be possible for beginners to use a chairlift or a drag lift to get there.
This is important because the most important factor for your sister and girl friend might be the quality of the instruction they get. This can make or break a holiday and they're unlikely to much enjoy schlepping round in ski boots, carrying skis. And you can't carry three pairs of skis! You need accommodation within really easy reach of the ski school meeting place (avoiding busses if at all possible) and, if your budget is tight, where you can get back to fix yourself an inexpensive lunch.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
| The local tourist office has accommodation that isn't on the usual booking sites. |
Yeah, thanks!
I`m also checking on their website, but how to get there...
Housing in Les Houches is more expensive. Food and the rest even more so. And as I understand it, this is one of the expensive resorts
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Since you are flying to Paris may I make a further suggestion. From CDG get a train to Bourg st Maurice and the funicular up to Les Arcs followed by the navette to Vallandry or the bus directly from BsM station directly to Vallandry which meets all your criteria minus the requirement to wear little black dresses or any other dresses for that matter. Arc 1800 will be a good second choice. There is actually quite a bit of easy skiing near the resort and the last (and only time) I drank in the hotel Golf they had a pianoist playing. The Arpette, up the hill and Follie Douce have DJs belting out musak at much higher volumes in early evening.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Mon 20-10-25 15:24; edited 1 time in total
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| Quote: |
| This is important because the most important factor for your sister and girl friend might be the quality of the instruction they get. |
Oh yeah. Sure!
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You know it makes sense.
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| Evod wrote: |
So I was initially considering France because we're flying there. I'm not against other countries, but Austria and Italy are out because:
- the flight from Paris to Austria (not Vienna, which is far away from resorts) is expensive
- the cost of accommodation in Italy (for example, in Alta Badia) starts at several thousand euros per week.
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Now that is nonsense. I've stayed in lovely guesthouses and family hotels in Austria and Italy and never got near the several thousand euros per week.
FWIW I agree that if you are flying into Paris you should probably look at somewhere readily accessible via train from there like e.g. Moutiers or BSM and surrounding resorts. I guess the Maurienne via e.g. Modane might find you some more budget friendly options. To be honest given what you will be spending on travel for 3, given reluctance to rent a car, a few Eur100 either way on accommodation seems fairly insignificant.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| under a new name wrote: |
or, stay at the Folie Douce hotel in Chamonix, adjacent to beginners slopes, easy to go straight up Brevent-Flegere, glamourous entertainment every evening and no shortage of LBDs?
https://en.lafoliedoucehotels.com/ |
Another vote for this. The beginners' slope is right outside the door. The Folie has a lot of fun stuff on, and a wide price range of accommodation, depending on your preferences.
Skiing is as expensive as you want it to be - but the Chamonix valley is definitely one of the places where it is _possible_ to make it relatively cheap. I'm not sure how you've concluded that Les Houches is expensive - it really isn't.
If your partner wants to dress up, then book for dinner at the Albert Premier's Michelin-starred restaurant in Cham. Or the Jeu de Paume in Lavancher.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I think the OP might not know where best to look to find accommodation costs - and of course some of the best value places for that week will already be booked.
@Evod, as for getting to Les Saisies on public transport I've already answered that one - train to Albertville, then easy and convenient bus which will take you right outside the tourist office in Les Saisies. But LS is not the place for a sophisticated night out. Or a sophisticated anything else. It's mostly a French family resort - and you won't find English anything near as widely spoken as it is in Chamonix! If you want really cheap - go to Flaine where there is a UCPA Centre, you and your GF can have your own twin room and sister in a dorm. All-in. Your ski gear, lessons, ski pass, full (good quality) board and a potential party crew around you.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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And flying in and out of Paris easily solves the birthday celebrations, as per my suggestion of going there for it afterwards (or before!).
Les Arcs is simple by train from Paris. In January there will likely be a direct one all the way to Bourg. Stay in 1800 for easy access to the forest skiing in Peisey-Vallandry and huge range of other easy blue pistes. 1800 has lots going on in the evenings.
Edenarc has a spa on site, not sure about any of the others, possibly Golf, mentioned upthread.
Define inexpensive for us to help further. What's your budget? (We're all friendly here, there's no judgement about money, we help however we can just to get people out on the slopes).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
Now that is nonsense. To be honest given what you will be spending on travel for 3, given reluctance to rent a car, a few Eur100 either way on accommodation seems fairly insignificant. |
Now that is nonsense too! They're in Paris. A train to Bourg St Maurice from CDG is €56 per head each way. So that's €336 for three. And then you're in Les Arcs courtesy of the funicular.
Alternatively, hire a car at CDG. £300ish for a decent sized car. Then Via Michelin says 8 hours' drive, €132 (in a Clio, as I can't be bothered to change the car) each way. So that's twice the price of the train.
What about a Sunweb holiday to Valfrejus. They've a complete beginner and an uncertain skier in the group so they don't need miles of piste, nor the lift pass prices to match. Sunweb can do a holiday in Valfrejus for £200 per head (two on the sofa bed, one in the hall, pay a smidgen more for more comfort), including lift passes (worth £198 per head) as well as a self-catering apartment. The nursery slopes are at 2,222 metres, so higher than Tignes.
So there's a ski holiday for three for under £1,000. (Just add kit, food and booze. And I'm sure the Carrefour in Valfrejus will be much cheaper than the one in Les Arcs. The beer in bars certainly will be!) ESF private lessons are €45 per hour, ski hire £50 for a week. You might find the LBD doesn't get much use, but it's early January, it will be freeeeeezing, and all ski resorts will be on the quiet side. Take the gal to Paris!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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A shot in the dark…
The OP kept coming back to say he found accommodation outside of France equally if not more expensive. It can be that he isn’t looking at the right place. But can it also be because he’s looking at one of the quietest week of the ski season? So the “normal rule” of accommodation doesn’t apply?
I’ve generally ski during non-holiday period because I don’t like crowded slopes. In doing so, I found accommodation prices vary vastly from the “usual”. Many lodging run all kind of special deals to fill their rooms during that dead period right after New year.
So rather than asking where it’s the cheapest “usually”, perhaps start by making a list of suitable resorts with beginner friendly terrain? Then pricing the exact dates, transport/lodging/etc all in. Make a decision and be done with.
Oh, edit the first post and strike out the birthday part, now that the requirement has been simplified to just an inexpensive beginner friendly resort.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Evod, Think your creating a recipe for disaster . . . Budget permitting you could
1 - Book a decent Chalet in Montgenevre, France for the week (easy quick access via Turin Airport) REALLY easy skiing / slopes accessible / ski schools good / general eating out decent / conditions usually consistent
2 - Then for the Birthday night out book a Taxi and jump over the border to Sauze D'Oulx, Italy (30mins) having reserved a table at the Restaurant Ciao Pais and pre-booking the skidoo ride up (and back). Either stay overnight for a romantic soiree or skidoo back into town for the lively wine bars / boogie venues
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| James the Last wrote: |
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
Now that is nonsense. To be honest given what you will be spending on travel for 3, given reluctance to rent a car, a few Eur100 either way on accommodation seems fairly insignificant. |
Now that is nonsense too! They're in Paris. A train to Bourg St Maurice from CDG is €56 per head each way. So that's €336 for three. And then you're in Les Arcs courtesy of the funicular.
Alternatively, hire a car at CDG. £300ish for a decent sized car. Then Via Michelin says 8 hours' drive, €132 (in a Clio, as I can't be bothered to change the car) each way. So that's twice the price of the train.
What about a Sunweb holiday to Valfrejus. They've a complete beginner and an uncertain skier in the group so they don't need miles of piste, nor the lift pass prices to match. Sunweb can do a holiday in Valfrejus for £200 per head (two on the sofa bed, one in the hall, pay a smidgen more for more comfort), including lift passes (worth £198 per head) as well as a self-catering apartment. The nursery slopes are at 2,222 metres, so higher than Tignes.
So there's a ski holiday for three for under £1,000. (Just add kit, food and booze. And I'm sure the Carrefour in Valfrejus will be much cheaper than the one in Les Arcs. The beer in bars certainly will be!) ESF private lessons are €45 per hour, ski hire £50 for a week. You might find the LBD doesn't get much use, but it's early January, it will be freeeeeezing, and all ski resorts will be on the quiet side. Take the gal to Paris! |
That train to BSM is very decent price, could be the cheapest way from Paris to the mountains for them.
The Sunweb deals in the S Alps/Maurienne are unbelievable outside of peak weeks. I guess you can get a train from Paris down to Modane for similar to BSM??
https://www.sunweb.co.uk/
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Do any / all of you speak any mainstream European language? If so that should target your destination.
Have you spoken to any travel agent about a package that suits you and destinations they recommended?
There are so many options from CDG that you should consider everywhere in Europe.
For example the cost of a week in Val d’Isere will be 3x the same week in a lesser known French resort such as Val Cenis. You are beginners so it really doesn’t matter where you go as long as it’s reasonably high so there is snow. Aim for somewhere above 1500m.
If I absolutely had to generalise I would say Switzerland is the most expensive place to ski followed by the expensive French resorts than the expensive Italian resorts after which the many multitudes of less expensive French Italian and Austrian resorts will give you hugely better value for your money.
For your first ski trip, you should be looking at somewhere relatively small and with a very low number of Black runs and lots of blue runs. The well-known major resorts which are incredibly popular are very expensive because they provide a plethora of experiences and amazing Skiing but this isn’t what you need in reality as beginners because you will never get to Ski the red and black runs anyhow in your first week.
I really think it would be worthwhile talking to some travel agents. Even though you are not travelling from the UK, it would appear that you speak good English so I recommend you ask some British travel agents by using an online inquiry form where they would recommend you to go to. Based on that, you should be able to find something that links you directly from Paris.
It is also worth bearing in mind that European public transport is far superior to many countries and you can get to a lot of places quite easily by train which is not only relaxing but for greener than flying.
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@rickboden, he’s on a budget, a travel agent - assuming they even still exist as this isn’t the 1980s - will add to that.
It would be good to have an idea of the budget for this trip?
We also don’t know how well OP skis.
Trains are available to Valfrejus too (plus bus ride). Similar cost.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Speaking the language wouldn't inform my ski destination. Sometimes I have to use a little French, never any German, for skiing (14 years owning a flat in Austria). The occasional use of Google translate for flat related matters works fine.
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| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| Speaking the language wouldn't inform my ski destination. Sometimes I have to use a little French, never any German, for skiing (14 years owning a flat in Austria). The occasional use of Google translate for flat related matters works fine. |
Jawohl, mein herr! 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@luigi, Frau..
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@holidayloverxx, I would absolutely hate not knowing the language of my second home.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| James the Last wrote: |
@rickboden, he’s on a budget, a travel agent - assuming they even still exist as this isn’t the 1980s - will add to that.
It would be good to have an idea of the budget for this trip?
We also don’t know how well OP skis.
Trains are available to Valfrejus too (plus bus ride). Similar cost. |
There a lot of British travel agents James for example Ski Solutions or Ski line both of whom I’ve used successfully in the past to find all sorts of different price accommodation. They take their commission out of the listed rates rather than charge extra on top. If you’re looking for something specific or you just don’t know what you’re looking for they can be really helpful. I still recommend that the OP contacts one.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| Speaking the language wouldn't inform my ski destination. Sometimes I have to use a little French, never any German, for skiing (14 years owning a flat in Austria). The occasional use of Google translate for flat related matters works fine. |
Each to their own. It would impact my decision if I was considering saving costs by using public transport and staying somewhere relatively cheap. It’s obviously their first time skiing and it sounds like it might be their first time in Europe so a little familiarity with the language goes a long way to help make it feel more comfortable.
We still need more information from the OP regarding budget, et cetera
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| KSH wrote: |
| @holidayloverxx, I would absolutely hate not knowing the language of my second home. |
everybody I mix with is English! I do "restaurant" German but usually get responses in English
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| rickboden wrote: |
| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| Speaking the language wouldn't inform my ski destination. Sometimes I have to use a little French, never any German, for skiing (14 years owning a flat in Austria). The occasional use of Google translate for flat related matters works fine. |
Each to their own. It would impact my decision if I was considering saving costs by using public transport and staying somewhere relatively cheap. |
You really need to use google translate more
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| James the Last wrote: |
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
Now that is nonsense. To be honest given what you will be spending on travel for 3, given reluctance to rent a car, a few Eur100 either way on accommodation seems fairly insignificant. |
Now that is nonsense too! They're in Paris. A train to Bourg St Maurice from CDG is €56 per head each way. So that's €336 for three. And then you're in Les Arcs courtesy of the funicular.
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To be honest I was factoring in the costs of presumably long haul flights into CDG also and/or local taxis/transfers from rail but can see how you might exclude the former under sunk costs.
I do think the OP might be well advised to do some detailed research both on accessibility and available housing stock - if he's (assuming a he) counting on getting the cheapest possible appt in a French resort they might end up sorely disappointed with space and/or 70s decor. And the mention of several Eur1000 in Alta Badia suggests their tastes are somewhat loftier.
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| rickboden wrote: |
There a lot of British travel agents James for example Ski Solutions or Ski line both of whom I’ve used successfully in the past to find all sorts of different price accommodation.. |
British travel agents. He’s coming from Paris. All the Ski Solutions options for Les Arcs (yes, I haven’t been through every resort they’re offering but LA has featured here often enough to have relevance) include flights and transfers, from the UK, and they’re all hotels I think which is not helping the budget either.
You suggest the services of a travel agent are free. They still have to be paid for by the traveller. OP is on what is suggested to be a tight budget.
It would of course be helpful if OP were to come back here and give an indication of that budget, and indeed some more details about the trip. But I’m sure we’ve confused OP more than enough!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Specialman wrote: |
@Evod, on the ADH to Grenoble point, not sure if there's a direct bus to Grenoble or if you have to go down to Bourg D'Oisans first and then switch over.
Grenoble is a lovely city, we enjoyed our time exploring the forts (accessed via. cable car) and wandering the city for a few hours during Summer. Not experienced it as a dedicated day out though... ours was a stopover on the way to Provence.
ADH is great, especially for beginners, it's a pretty big place and I'm sure there are some good spa days to be had (plus other activities) but it's probably going to be resort-based, as it's stuck on top of a mountain and not easily accessible to other towns (i.e. not in valley floor near other towns). |
On the Grenoble/AdH note - if travelling over the weekend, Ben’s bus do (multiple) journeys which are fairly cheap.
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As to language - my French improved a lot BECAUSE we had a second home. Things like going to the Co-Pro meetings (entirely in French, obviously), listening carefully and comparing what I'd heard against my reading (in English mostly) about how co-pros work in France, made a big difference. And just being immersed in the environment. When in France I generally read undemanding novels in French - often things translated from English, like Joanna Trollope or Harry Potter. Nothing difficult! I quite often encountered people who couldn't speak English. Like a woman who ran a tiny bakery in a beautiful mountain village. We didn't have a very deep or meaningful conversation, but it was an experience I'd have missed. Ditto talking to a carpenter about how I wanted some wood planed - I had to look up some words, then get on with it. Or talking to a man who was pulling mistletoe down from his trees and intended to go down and sell it in Italian markets. I pondered explaining what we do under the mistletoe in England but, remembering about the several uses of the French very "baiser" decided against it.
None of these were life changing or deep and meaningful conversations. But we did have D & M evenings together with our neighbours - wife was a French primary school teacher very interested in language and culture. We spoke a kind of Franglais, and she corrected my French mistakes. She could speak a fair bit of English but because she hated to make mistakes, rarely did! After a few glasses of wine I didn't care. The time we spent with them (they visited us in England and we visited them in Belgium) was very precious. It was all part of the scene. It wasn't just about skiing. Getting to know the people in the shop selling electronic appliances and mending ovens was also good - I picked up a major error the guy had made, in our favour, in an invoice - friends for life after that. He spoke, or admitted to speak, no English at all.
It was a matter of meeting people on neutral ground, in part. Conversations where we were all grappling with a second language (very few people in such a tiny place spoke English well, let alone fluently). It evened up the scales a bit. Having a second home in France changed my life - I now go to excellent and very enjoyable French lessons in the local U3A.
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