 Poster: A snowHead
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Lights Out and Away We Go! Wishing everybody a great season and hoping the snow-gods will be kind to us 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The official countdown to winter fun is on!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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4 months to go - I plan to be on the slopes on 3 January and then for the rest of that month.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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This pic taken a week ago at the top of Mossette between Avoriaz and Les Crossets.
Been back in the UK a full week after a fab week hiking in Morzine/Avoriaz/Les Gets.
https://ibb.co/RpCGYjFv
Now looking forward to Winter.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Evening guys - our soon to be 18Y old is about to book a pre-Christmas boys trip to Avoriaz (18-24 December).
The published opening date for Avoriaz is 12 December ... he's keen to stay in Morzine as he knows it very well / they have found a reasonably-priced apartment. For some reason there's not many accommodation options for those dates in Avoriaz.
2 questions for me (assuming that Morzine won't be opening until just before Christmas) - does the Prodains bubble open as soon as Avoriaz opens and, if yes, would line A also open then? What about SM / Zore / Proclou?
Not the end of the world if the bus service doesn't start until Morzine is open as they can share the taxi cost to Prodains.
Thanks.
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Perfect, thanks @shep
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Mayor of Morzine say's the Morzine/Avoriaz gondola idea's back on the table - https://welove2ski.com/high-speed-gondola-could-finally-link-morzine-to-avoriaz
I wouldn't recommend anyone holds their breath on this one though (and the other plan that was mooted, replacing/extending the Super-Morzine along the ridge to a top station that has runs down into the Lindarets bowl one way/Avoriaz the other would still make more sense) 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Re. the article, I don't see how the operator will take on let's call it 60M euros of debt without having the commune guarantee their returns (so the commune would still end up paying for it, and a mountain of interest, in the end). It would have to be some kind of Public Private Partnership (remember what good value they turned out to be for the uk tax payer for example...  ).
The lift systems in France are Commune property, they are regarded as public transport. Private companies bid for a ten-year contract to operate the infrastructure, there's no way this lift could be self-financing in that time-frame. Les Gets might be prepared to chip in a bit in so far as the lift would help their commune too, but what's in it for the other 11 communes (across two countries)? No way they would let Morzine's operator siphon off the vast amounts of money required from the shared PdS lift-pass pot to make this investment profitable. And the sales of local Avoriaz or Morzine only passes do not generate much money.
The reason the ex-mayor was booted out when he tried to force it through was that Morzine's population of 3,000 would have ended up (at 2019 prices) being six-times as indebted per capita than the national-average Communal debt. At current figures every man woman and child in Morzine would take on an extra 20,000 euro Communal debt to build this lift!
Operationally it wouldn't fix the problem either. Instead of queueing for a navette to Prodains, most guests would have to queue for a navette to the centre of Morzine (because there's nowhere to park). And having got on a navette, why not just stay on it up to Prodains and take one lift instead of two? Because here's the other big problem, at the current bottom-station in Prodains (which would become the mid-station) everyone would have to get off the lift from Morzine, and queue again to get back on the second stage up to Avoriaz!  Yes the existing lift can't be re-engineered to run straight-through the mid-station. So you have a bottle-neck where you're competing with skiers who have skied down from Avoriaz, plus the bus coach and car arrivals parking in Prodains, to get back on the lift half-way up... 
So we'll see, there's a lot of politics to play out before anything happens. Personally I'd go for a big new télécabine from a new massive car-park somewhere between Montriond and Morzine, straight to the ridge above Avoriaz; but the Morzine commerçants will never allow that to happen for fear of losing trade....
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| shep wrote: |
Re. the article, I don't see how the operator will take on let's call it 60M euros of debt without having the commune guarantee their returns (so the commune would still end up paying for it, and a mountain of interest, in the end). It would have to be some kind of Public Private Partnership (remember what good value they turned out to be for the uk tax payer for example... ).
The lift systems in France are Commune property, they are regarded as public transport. Private companies bid for a ten-year contract to operate the infrastructure, there's no way this lift could be self-financing in that time-frame. Les Gets might be prepared to chip in a bit in so far as the lift would help their commune too, but what's in it for the other 11 communes (across two countries)? No way they would let Morzine's operator siphon off the vast amounts of money required from the shared PdS lift-pass pot to make this investment profitable. And the sales of local Avoriaz or Morzine only passes do not generate much money.
The reason the ex-mayor was booted out when he tried to force it through was that Morzine's population of 3,000 would have ended up (at 2019 prices) being six-times as indebted per capita than the national-average Communal debt. At current figures every man woman and child in Morzine would take on an extra 20,000 euro Communal debt to build this lift!
Operationally it wouldn't fix the problem either. Instead of queueing for a navette to Prodains, most guests would have to queue for a navette to the centre of Morzine (because there's nowhere to park). And having got on a navette, why not just stay on it up to Prodains and take one lift instead of two? Because here's the other big problem, at the current bottom-station in Prodains (which would become the mid-station) everyone would have to get off the lift from Morzine, and queue again to get back on the second stage up to Avoriaz! Yes the existing lift can't be re-engineered to run straight-through the mid-station. So you have a bottle-neck where you're competing with skiers who have skied down from Avoriaz, plus the bus coach and car arrivals parking in Prodains, to get back on the lift half-way up...
So we'll see, there's a lot of politics to play out before anything happens. Personally I'd go for a big new télécabine from a new massive car-park somewhere between Montriond and Morzine, straight to the ridge above Avoriaz; but the Morzine commerçants will never allow that to happen for fear of losing trade.... |
Agree 100% @shep ... the existing infrastructure / system may not be ideal or perfect or bulletproof but it does work. And such a development would only realistically benefit the winter trade whose importance to Les Gets, Montriond and Morzine will continue to diminish (albeit gradually).
Frankly, I don't want Morzine turning into a massive car park / base station for a ski lift, nevermind having more unnecessary pylons scouring the landscape.
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My daughter and her BF have just landed a chalet hosting gig with Treeline Chalets in Morzine 
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You know it makes sense.
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Hi all,
Hope you don't mind me asking here (seems a more appropriate place than the Piste forum).
My party of 4 snowboarder are looking at a trip to Pds for the first time this coming January, and at the moment are keen on Avoriaz as it seems to be the most central of the Pds villages, however would be keen to get some real life experience on if its even possible to use the lift system to its fullest from say Les Gets, and be able to board back to base from another area, or if its a bus only situation like in Chamonix? The piste map is a little tricker to interpret than say Les Arcs/LaPlagne.
Thanks!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| ukoldschool wrote: |
Hi all,
Hope you don't mind me asking here (seems a more appropriate place than the Piste forum).
My party of 4 snowboarder are looking at a trip to Pds for the first time this coming January, and at the moment are keen on Avoriaz as it seems to be the most central of the Pds villages, however would be keen to get some real life experience on if its even possible to use the lift system to its fullest from say Les Gets, and be able to board back to base from another area, or if its a bus only situation like in Chamonix? The piste map is a little tricker to interpret than say Les Arcs/LaPlagne.
Thanks! |
Are you asking about staying in Les Gets as an alternative? If so, think of the Morzine/Les Gets sector as being a separate area. If you're staying in Morzine, you can go either way, e.g. to the Morzine/Les Gets area, or to Avoriaz and beyond area. The reality is that, if you're staying in Les Gets, you'll have to either walk across Morzine (from the bottom of the Pleney lift to the Super Morzine lift), or get the bus from the bottom of the Pleney to the Prodains lift to access Avoriaz etc from there. If you're staying in Avoriaz, you can obviously do that in reverse, and have a day or two over that side, for example. The problem is that if you're based in Les Gets, you're probably unlikely to do that much and therefore will be limited to the Morzine/Les Gets sector in reality.
If I've read that incorrectly, apologies. Ultimately, if you stay in Avoriaz there's loads to go at and you won't need to go to Les Gets, but it's obviously possible for a day out, as above. Personally, I'd base myself in Morzine, rather Les Gets, if you were wanting to stay in either of those, but I prefer to stay in Avoriaz these days, even if it means rarely going to the Les Gets side, as access to the main bulk of the area is so easy from there.
That's for when I take our kids away though, so if you're looking for more nightlife, then Morzine has more of that clearly, but I've put the above based on access to the ski area.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| ukoldschool wrote: |
Hi all,
Hope you don't mind me asking here (seems a more appropriate place than the Piste forum).
My party of 4 snowboarder are looking at a trip to Pds for the first time this coming January, and at the moment are keen on Avoriaz as it seems to be the most central of the Pds villages, however would be keen to get some real life experience on if its even possible to use the lift system to its fullest from say Les Gets, and be able to board back to base from another area, or if its a bus only situation like in Chamonix? The piste map is a little tricker to interpret than say Les Arcs/LaPlagne.
Thanks! |
There are more qualified PDS experts than me on these forums but I cant tell you that Avoriaz is the more central location.
Les Gets is the base to avoid as it only links to Morzine and then have to walk (or get the little "train") to the super morzine lift to get up to Avoriaz.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| shep wrote: |
| Re. the article, I don't see how the operator will take on let's call it 60M euros of debt... |
Can't help thinking if bus capacity is the issue how many new buses/bus driver salaries could you pay for with €60M...?
(Although no, that doesn't help with people who seem to be afraid of taking a bus if the can see snow)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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PDS is basically two non linked areas. Morzine/Les Gets and Avoriaz/Montriond/Chatel/Swiss side. There is also StJean d'Aulps and Abondance as stand alones.
Avoriaz looks central but really is the SW corner of the second area with decent links to both Chatel and the Swiss side and its own area.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I meant central in the, links to all the resorts, as opposed it the geographical sense.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Avoriaz only links to the skiing area of Morzine/Les Gets by a bus ride from Prodains or Ardent of gondola from Super Morzine and a walk across town.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| ukoldschool wrote: |
Hi all,
Hope you don't mind me asking here (seems a more appropriate place than the Piste forum).
My party of 4 snowboarder are looking at a trip to Pds for the first time this coming January, and at the moment are keen on Avoriaz as it seems to be the most central of the Pds villages, however would be keen to get some real life experience on if its even possible to use the lift system to its fullest from say Les Gets, and be able to board back to base from another area, or if its a bus only situation like in Chamonix? The piste map is a little tricker to interpret than say Les Arcs/LaPlagne.
Thanks! |
I would definitely stay in Morzine based on your OP.
Why?
Granted, Les Gets is a lovely village particularly at night - excellent bars and restaurants and a welcoming, cosmopolitan vibe.
Morzine is much bigger but the centre has still managed to maintain its charm - there are great bars / restaurants for a younger age group too ... the Bec Jaune brewery, Colibri and O'Chalet to name but a few. Plenty of hotels and SC options to choose from (Avoriaz only has 2 hotels of note).
At that time of year, I would be slightly wary about what the snow in Les Gets / Morzine would be like - you might get lucky as we did in the last 2 seasons (early January 2023 was poor and on the back of the December washout) but both towns are low ... basing yourselves in Morzine will allow you to enjoy what the town has to offer at night but, more importantly, will give you good access to Avoriaz and the Plaine Dranse and PlJ sectors (best runds and snow in the whole area IMHO) via either the Ardent, Prodains and SM bubbles. In fact, you can't beat Ardent for the most straightforward access to the best of the boarding / snow which is why we've just bought a place in Montriond. You can also download on the Ardent bubble and have a couple of beers at the Happy Hours bar at the bottom before jumping on the navette back to the centre of Morzine.
Please feel free to ask more questions.
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| Mjit wrote: |
| shep wrote: |
| Re. the article, I don't see how the operator will take on let's call it 60M euros of debt... |
Can't help thinking if bus capacity is the issue how many new buses/bus driver salaries could you pay for with €60M...?
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Yes exactly @Mjit. I'd imagine it's enough money to convert the navette fleet to electric, and have enough left over to build a new bog-standard télécabine from the Dereche to Avoriaz - and a car park to go with it.
Or thinking a bit more laterally, what's not being discussed is that the problem is only a high-season problem, i.e. New Year's week, the two Paris half-term weeks, and the UK half-term week (which often coincides with Paris). The rest of the time the navettes and access-lifts run mostly empty. So the 60M would be better spent bribing (oops - I mean lobbying) the UK MPs to stagger half-term (like every other sensible European nation does); and the same for the French MPs to add a third Paris week to their schedule. Problem solved, everyone happy (apart from a few school teachers and people who think skiing is elitist. Oh, and a few people at the Morzine Mairie who are desperate to have their vanity project ).
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Have any of the regular PDS crew on here ever skiied Clacier 3000 and is it worth a visit? I am thinking of a trip to Châtel 21st November to sort out a few things and seen that this area is open from early November and only an hour from Châtel by car. I appreciate it’s quite flat.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Ozboy wrote: |
| Have any of the regular PDS crew on here ever skiied Clacier 3000 and is it worth a visit? I am thinking of a trip to Châtel 21st November to sort out a few things and seen that this area is open from early November and only an hour from Châtel by car. I appreciate it’s quite flat. |
Glacier 3000 at les Diablerets? Yes, once, possibly on two days. But a very long time ago, so I dont remember that much. The top part on the actual glacier has a couple of quite long but very flat pistes, no real challenging skiing. I recall one nice long run down to one of the two base lifts and I see a 'new' Itinéraire on the piste map, which may have been what we did, down to one of them and pistes down to the other.
Not on my list of places I'd be dying to go back to, but it's a spectacular view at the top and might be worth it just for that alone. Let me know if you are going and I might tag along if that would be OK.
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@Chaletbeauroc, thats the one at the Diablerets as its the closest skiing available from Chatel in November. I may be with family but will let you know if I am going solo.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Closer than Verbier? Hadn't really thought about it, but google maps tells me it's slightly closer to get to the Verbier base cable-car station at le Châble, although maybe the uplift time would be longer from there.
Is Glacier 3000 part of one of the areas available with the PDS season pass? Doesn't appear to be.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
Closer than Verbier? Hadn't really thought about it, but google maps tells me it's slightly closer to get to the Verbier base cable-car station at le Châble, although maybe the uplift time would be longer from there.
Is Glacier 3000 part of one of the areas available with the PDS season pass? Doesn't appear to be. |
Verbier is not open November but its the same distance on paper.
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@Ozboy, Not sure why I thought it would be, TBH. I'd been looking at early season options recently, including Engelberg which of course opens much earlier, so I guess I must have conflated those dates in my head.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I just purchased a ski season pass for myself and my two children a few minutes ago.
I used some ski cards that I already have. During the booking process, the system took me directly from customization, validation etc direct to payment and did not show any pick-up points. Can I use the ski cards directly at the lifts, or do I need to pick something up in person?
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Poster: A snowHead
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@turms2, If during the booking process you validated each of the card numbers then those passes should work from day 1. Just make sure to have the copy of your receipt with you so you can sort out any problems. I mucked up last year and tried to use an old card on first lift which hadn't been validated. Liftie sorted problems and swapped my old card for a new one with season pass details loaded.
Should also be able to go into your account and cross check the pass against card number.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Timc,
i suppose i validated all of the cards. At least in the receipt i can see all of them
I will definitely have the receipt with my. No question about this. At least the first day
But if i use my own cards, why do i have to upload photos? or maybe the Liftie can check the photos in the system when i go threw the "gates"
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@turms2, Yes photos are to check you see not sharing passes.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@turms2,
Season passes must have photos uploaded for each pass, their system probably already has old photos attached to those cards which you should check and possibly upload new.
On the main lifts lifties tend to stand by the barriers and check photos on their tablets.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Timc, old Photos its not possible since its my first time i buy this season pass.
I suppose the reason is to Check them on the Lifts
I thought the pass has to have a photo already on the one side as the ID
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| turms2 wrote: |
@Timc, old Photos its not possible since its my first time i buy this season pass.
I suppose the reason is to Check them on the Lifts
I thought the pass has to have a photo already on the one side as the ID |
It’s all electronic and the photos are displayed on their screens as you go through the turnstiles. You are good the way you have done it.
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@Ozboy, cool thanks.
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Whilst appreciating it's impossible to predict the future, has anyone been out on the opening weekend before and, if so, what sort of area is typically open? I know it's not guaranteed, so was just wondering in ballpark terms, as I might fancy a short trip to Avoriaz at that time but have never been there this early.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Been out in December starting in Chatel and normally not a problem. Obviously Boone now’s how it will actually play out. But I can the alps will be in bad shape for Christmas if there is no snow in Avoriaz or Châtel PLJ by then.
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@Ozboy, not necessarily, eastern end and especially southern side of alps can have vastly different snow depths by then compared to NW
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FAQ
