The same people tell me I'm a criminal for using email on my phone outside the UK. Whatever.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Has anyone else here who is fortunate enough to own a second home ever had a friend who did some decorating or similar in return for a "free" holiday?
I'd bet it has happened, even amongst our righteous membership!
How about somebody just doing a job as a favour?
I've got a carpenter friend who came to stay with us in Switz' and helped me build a really lovely fence.
Isn't that unpaid work?
Exploitation?
Should I go and self report to the police?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@rungsp, I've definitely had to consider this sort of thing, for example last season just getting my niece and her husband to help out doing changeovers so we can get out skiing earlier. I apply the 'man on the Clapham omnibus' approach, as in 'would a reasonable person feel that they were doing work for me and getting payment in kind?' They were here for a week, spent perhaps three or four hours in total helping me out. I concluded that the answer to the above question was no.
But I do know people in Switzerland who have been reported, had the police round to check, when they've been using foreign workers, thankfully all above board, declared, all good. It happens.
In this case I'm pretty sure that most people would say yes, they are actually employing this person. It would only take one phone call for the word to come tumbling down around them. It's absolutely not a risk I would be prepared to take.
No idea of the penalties, but the worker would be kicked out in double-quick time and probably barred from reentry, the 'employer' probably facing some hefty fines, and more importantly screwing up their future chances of cooperation with police or neighbours, opening themselves up to renewed scrutiny from time to time. It's why, for example, I never exceed the customs allowance coming back over the border with my weekly shopping. Given that I live just 200m from the border post I would make myself a target if I were ever found to be abusing it. Squeaky clean, me. I might get stopped two or three times a year, and I think they've only ever done more than a cursory look one time, where they did actually take a few things out of shopping bags. I don't want that to be happening every time, so...
Edit: I do recognise that I've become Swissified after 25 years here, but it's more about recognising that Swiss neighbours will report you if you're doing anything dodgy, even if they're outwardly friendly.
A dont think this offer is like the film "Chalet Girl". No no no. Not a mention of resort. I would avoid unless you and your mrs can handle yourselves and situations as they present.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@boarder2020, possibly. But, as a lawyer, I'm a bit funny about complying with the law, you'll just have to forgive my quirkiness in this respect.
After all it is free
After all it is free
@Chaletbeauroc, frankly I'd be horrified to stay in someone's house for free and not do something in return - a nice meal out is usually the standard. I'm sure your relatives were more than happy to help out for a few hours and still thought they got the better end of the deal. I don't really see how that's much different to the nixmap situation though!
@KSH, I'm pretty sure a good lawyer could get them off Assuming there's no paper trail it would be difficult to prove it was work or even volunteering. "I'm a philanthropist that likes to offer my chalet to couples to experience a ski season - if they happen to want to cook a few meals and help tidy to say thanks who am I to stop them, I certainly am not paying them" the volunteer isn't going to say otherwise either! I would agree it's a grey area, but I doubt the authorities are too interested - Its not like a business that's using them to make money, there's no entrapment/slavery (i.e. taking away passport), and no money is passing hands.
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@boarder2020,
Quote:
Assuming there's no paper trail it would be difficult to prove it was work or even volunteering. "I'm a philanthropist that likes to offer my chalet to couples to experience a ski season - if they happen to want to cook a few meals and help tidy to say thanks who am I to stop them, I certainly am not paying them" the volunteer isn't going to say otherwise either! I would agree it's a grey area, but I doubt the authorities are too interested - Its not like a business that's using them to make money, there's no entrapment/slavery (i.e. taking away passport), and no money is passing hands.
Rubbish argument in legal terms, I'm afraid. But if it floats your boat, so be it.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@KSH, I have a foreign friend that wants to live here so I offer them to move into my house in exchange for cooking all my meals for me and keeping the place tidy. It's just a verbal agreement, there is no contract or paperwork. Technically probably illegal. Good luck proving it. "Nah we are just friends living together, occasionally we help each other out with stuff as housemates do". Besides as I said I doubt any authorities are going to care. We have cases of people trafficking, modern day slavery, businesses illegally employing people etc. You really think they have the resources and desire to investigate some happily consenting adults doing something in a grey area.
Again I suspect most of the naysayers are a bit jealous and would happily turn a blind eye when it suits them (i.e. paying cash to a tradesman for a better price knowing he's doing it off the books)
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@boarder2020, repeating your arguments and 'suspicions' doesn't make them any more valid or legally relevant.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Well, it seems to me there is a spectrum of potential scenarios here. Ranging from a benign, safe and genuinely balanced arrangement to one of illegal employment with no liability cover and exploitation. Only a candidate will be able to determine the real terms and conditions that will be in place.
One obvious question from a candidate will be to ask for a couple of contact details of former employees (or whatever you want to call them). So they can effectively get a reference for the reality of the situation. Those posting might reasonably not want to give this information out on a forum, but should expect to give it to candidates.
Others would include getting a statement from the OP about the exact local, legal status of anyone they take on. Plus what third-party liability insurance they have for someone who is neither a guest, nor a client. And so on. If the OP has been doing this for a while, none of these potential clarifications should come as a surprise. If candidates get push-back or bland/vague answers, then they should be very wary.
As a Swiss rental property owner, I have had to take out extra 3rd-party liability insurance to cover rental clients i.e. anyone using the place who is not a relative or friend. My regular insurance simply doesn’t cover this category of resident, such as a paying client or unpaid house-sitter. This sort of detail is the sort of thing a candidate would need to get clarity on.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
There's a difference between staying with a friend and helping out over a week or so and doing it over a season IMO
Quote:
there's no entrapment/slavery
That we're aware of
I am still amazed that someone hasn't spilt the beans on this, it's either a genuinely good deal so no-one is inclined to or the NDA/penalties for doing so are so harsh no-one dares risk it
Or they're dead in a cellar
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I say it every year ( and i hope it continues for just a few more years........ ), because as soon as I'm able, I'll be interested.
Good luck @nixmap,
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Boris wrote:
Or they're dead in a cellar
He must have a decent sized cellar as hasn’t this been going for a few years? Thats how many couples?
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
If you take your child's nanny abroad with you on holiday then they technically need a work permit in many if not most jurisdictions. Nobody cares. This job is much lower profile; nobody will ever notice. The associated risk of consequences if indeed Nixmap were not to be following all the rules must be judged as very low.
O(n the grounds that they will be there for more than 90 days, applicants must have permits, or be Irish; difficult to see how it can be done without some sort of involvement of authorities.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Thu 9-10-25 12:18; edited 1 time in total
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
We don't know that he finds someone every year I don't think
I googled Nixmap and Meiringen and there are several threads indicating that is the resort, but I didn't see anything from Nixmap confirming it. I skied there once (not my choice), and it was spring conditions, but it was pretty uninspiring, poor snow, nothing remotely steep. Went to Engelberg for the following 2 days and the skiing couldn't have been more different, great slopes, great snow. Free accommodation wouldn't be enough to lure me back to Meiringen
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Interesting thoughts on insurance/liability.
I assume the owners have a lovely, crackling fire. What happens if the 'guests' burn the house down by accident especially midweek when the owners are not there?
There's a difference between staying with a friend and helping out over a week or so and doing it over a season IMO
Quote:
there's no entrapment/slavery
That we're aware of
I am still amazed that someone hasn't spilt the beans on this, it's either a genuinely good deal so no-one is inclined to or the NDA/penalties for doing so are so harsh no-one dares risk it
Or they're dead in a cellar
I thought Rick loves the powder alluded to have done it?
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@rickboden, Unless it were to raise more questions relating to the employment or otherwise (and I don't see why it would) then that example probably would not cause any issues. I have a relatively standard, though quite expensive, Swiss house insurance policy, nothing special, which includes all liability type stuff, for paying guests, long-term tenants or anyone else, so it's not like the exact status of any house guest making a claim would need to be be declared or established.
No, the only way an something like that might become an issue is if by its nature an accident was obviously work related, or if the victim or their insurers wanted to insist that it was - could make a difference in the case of long-term disability, for example. The only examples I could think of would be if you had someone fall off your roof while replacing tiles or similar. Not very likely, of course, although I guess it could have significant consequences if it came to pass.
On the grounds that they will be there for more than 90 days, applicants must have permits, or be Irish; difficult to see how it can be done without some sort of involvement of authorities.
I presume your Irish reference is alluding to their EU status? But you're mistaken - they are also limited to 90 days without a permit.
The only difference is that they have the right to a B permit, either working or not, without having to jump through hoops regarding a job vacancy not able to be filled locally, but they still have to apply for the permit to stay more than three months, which includes a need to prove financial means, to have full (Swiss) health and accident insurance, a proper address, etc. etc.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Does anyone still believe that this is a real offer and not simply a fishing exercise?
The OP has been posting the same offer since probably before I joined the forum (in 2009).
Every year it is the same offer that is always ridiculously scant on detail. Every response from nixmap on his threads is deliberately vague or ambiguous.
No one, even under an anonymous username, has ever posted as much as an acknowledgment that they had taken up the offer. Never mind offer opinion on it.
I can’t believe this is a genuine offer.
After all it is free
After all it is free
dode wrote:
Does anyone still believe that this is a real offer and not simply a fishing exercise?
I still don’t see why it really matters.
But on the face of it, he’s offering a position with some attractive parts. He’s not that I can see encouraging anyone to break the law. People are free to reply ir not and ultimately take it up or not as they please.
We’re all grown ups here , unless the age verification is not working
Last edited by After all it is free on Thu 9-10-25 14:01; edited 1 time in total
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
It's an interesting offer that's being made. If it's as it's described, it actually seems like a really good deal for the right person that has the time available, legalities of the situation aside.
If it's just a troll post or some kind of scam it seems unlikely it would not have been discovered so far. If someone genuinely applied for the job only to find out it didn't exist or the people who owned the chalet were horrible, or maybe no chalet at all, then surely they would have posted here. There could be no NDA signed if there wasn't even a job available.
I can definitely believe there are rich swiss owners of chalets who only use them at the weekend and want it all prepared for their arrival, but surely they would employ professional chefs, cleaners etc not just random people from a skiing forum.
It's a mystery and I'm not sure what to believe, but if it's as advertised it seems like a great deal to me. I would love to have had this opportunity when I was younger but it's not convenient for me now and I'm sure they wouldn't be impressed by my low standard of cooking either
Good luck to anyone who does apply though, I hope they have a fantastic time and can find someway of letting the forum know how it really was, assuming their body doesn't end up in some swiss cellar !
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@rambotion, I believe the 2 resorts are Klosters and Gstaad, but it may have changed again. She may not see the need to provide further details to people who are just rubber necking.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Chaletbeauroc wrote:
James the Last wrote:
On the grounds that they will be there for more than 90 days, applicants must have permits, or be Irish; difficult to see how it can be done without some sort of involvement of authorities.
I presume your Irish reference is alluding to their EU status? But you're mistaken - they are also limited to 90 days without a permit.
Yes but... it's getting into Schengen that's the challenge for us Brits; nobody would ever know if an EU passport-holder had spent more than 90 days in Switzerland as the Swiss don't have border controls. Or I guess you could do what the wealthy do and go by PJ and avoid passport control. Or what the poor do and use a rubber dinghy.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
KSH wrote:
@boarder2020, repeating your arguments and 'suspicions' doesn't make them any more valid or legally relevant.
I guess that's why your a lawyer and im skiing everyday in winter
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
boarder2020 wrote:
KSH wrote:
@boarder2020, repeating your arguments and 'suspicions' doesn't make them any more valid or legally relevant.
I guess that's why your a lawyer and im skiing everyday in winter
Until the day you need a lawyer.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
James the Last wrote:
Or I guess you could do what the wealthy do and go by PJ and avoid passport control.
Is there no passport control for PJs?! I'd have thought any unregistered jet moving about in Europe was likely to find itself on the wrong end of an airforce pretty quickly.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
The exchanges which have been described as very negative name calling have often been simply asking for clarification of the legal and other points raised. Any such requests are invariably met by hostility. Getting ready for arrivals on a Friday evening and clearing up after them on Monday morning is many hours if pretty hard work (I've done it) . Plus some full time work on school holiday weeks. I'd expect a good rate of pay for those hours. The pay is just accommodation and it appears there are now two chalets to be looked after. Petrol and travel time between the two? Ski pass for both locations? Swiss legal situation (e.g incase of being incapacitated by a road accident, or being skied into by one of the guests? This is a ski forum and all these and related issues are entirely legitimate topics of queries and conversation for anyone who is interested. Just stonewalling everybody is not in the spirit of the forum. If I were working at least three very long days a week I'd expect to be able to do more than just keep a roof over my head. Chalet workers get their keep, ski costs and beer money. And employment rights. I reckon that's a better, and much more transparent, deal.
.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
rambotion wrote:
We don't know that he finds someone every year I don't think
I googled Nixmap and Meiringen and there are several threads indicating that is the resort, but I didn't see anything from Nixmap confirming it. I skied there once (not my choice), and it was spring conditions, but it was pretty uninspiring, poor snow, nothing remotely steep. Went to Engelberg for the following 2 days and the skiing couldn't have been more different, great slopes, great snow. Free accommodation wouldn't be enough to lure me back to Meiringen
I love Meiringen/Hasliberg, skied there a few times, including one epic powder day, probably on some of those slopes in the video, but real epic, up-to-your-waist, soft fluffy fresh powder. It was raining in the village that morning, some friends weren't going to bother going up. Me and Jude had no hesitation, cracking day. Actually, thinking about the snow, it's possible that it's the best powder I've ever skied. And I've skied some powder.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
rambotion wrote:
I googled Nixmap and Meiringen and there are several threads indicating that is the resort, but I didn't see anything from Nixmap confirming it.
A previous thread indicates that he had two chalets, one in Gstaad, one in Klosters and that the expectation is that the victim is expected to drive the four hours between them on a regular basis. https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=111384#2550776
@Origen, why are you talking about full-time work in school holidays? It's not mentioned in the OP and I'd guess the kids are grown up now.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@Chaletbeauroc, that sounds like a disaster. Snow is good in the west, oh dear there’s free accommodation there, we’ll have to drive over! Snow good in the east? Oh no we’ll have to chase it!
If you finish skiing at 4pm and drive over, and there are two to share the driving, who’ll notice it? You’ll be there before supper.
This is a way of spending the winter that clearly doesn’t appeal to you or to Origen. To be honest, the Nixmaps are better off without somebody who doesn’t want to do the job!
But remind me not to invite Origen to dinner as I probably haven’t got enough insurance to cover the various things that might happen to her - she does sound a tad unlucky.
@Chaletbeauroc, that sounds like a disaster. Snow is good in the west, oh dear there’s free accommodation there, we’ll have to drive over! Snow good in the east? Oh no we’ll have to chase it!
If you finish skiing at 4pm and drive over, and there are two to share the driving, who’ll notice it? You’ll be there before supper.
Once or twice a season, no one would have notice. Do that every other week? I guarantee you will notice!
Some people look at it from the worst case angle. Some look at it at the best case scenario.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Quote:
Once or twice a season, no one would have notice. Do that every other week? I guarantee you will notice!
I don't know the area, but in my experience, typically there's not *that* much difference in places 4 hours apart (assuming similar altitude) to the point where there's a *need* to drive. I guess if conditions really are epic at one, most people would consider a 4 hour drive a small price to pay for a deep powder day.
Ran past a horse riding place today. Actually had a sign up saying they are looking for volunteers to work in exchange for discounted lessons! Probably don't have insurance either, will have to report them
After all it is free
After all it is free
boarder2020 wrote:
Ran past a horse riding place today. Actually had a sign up saying they are looking for volunteers to work in exchange for discounted lessons! Probably don't have insurance either, will have to report them
They probably have insurance!
My Mom used to do lots of volunteer work. Just about every place had her sign a bunch of paperwork! Yes, there’s typically insurance that covers all “workers”, even unpaid ones.
Basically, any place that runs a legit business should have insurance for both customers and workers. So covering volunteers should be included.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@abc, It's quite clear from earlier discussions, with threads going back several years, that this person does not fulfil your statement "runs a legit business should have insurance for both customers and workers. So covering volunteers should be included."
Any paperwork would need for them to be officially registered, which would need for them to have a valid permit, etc. etc. So while they will have insurance for guests of any description, as I do, it would all fall apart if circumstances lead to the truth being discovered.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
boarder2020 wrote:
I don't know the area, but in my experience, typically there's not *that* much difference in places 4 hours apart (assuming similar altitude) to the point where there's a *need* to drive.
Those two areas are effectively a whole mountain range apart, so yeah, conditions could be vastly different between the two.
What would worry me more is that they're being 'required' to drive between them to prepare guest rooms, to organise, to cook, clean, whatever else is required. It's not a matter of choice.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
Assuming there's no paper trail it would be difficult to prove it was work or even volunteering. "I'm a philanthropist that likes to offer my chalet to couples to experience a ski season - if they happen to want to cook a few meals and help tidy to say thanks who am I to stop them, I certainly am not paying them" the volunteer isn't going to say otherwise either! I would agree it's a grey area, but I doubt the authorities are too interested - Its not like a business that's using them to make money, there's no entrapment/slavery (i.e. taking away passport), and no money is passing hands.
