 Poster: A snowHead
|
Hope this is the right section of the forum, please redirect me if not.
I am due to be heading to Les Saisies at 1650m via Megeve either Friday/Saturday this week, looks like there will be snow to low levels
I have never actually driven up a mountain in snow before but I am generally a confident driver and have driven through the French, Swiss and Italian alps for hours so I am familiar with mountain driving (albeit on summer).
I drive a AWD BMW X3 which I am fitting with all season tyres that perform well in snow:
https://www.halfords.com/tyres/audi/continental-allseasoncontact-255%2F45-r20-105w-xl-4338275.html
I will also pick up some snow chains.
Think I will be ok with that set up? Any tips? Should I just wait until they clear the roads or will I be ok to head up in falling snow?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| Astontech wrote: |
I will also pick up some snow chains |
Take a head torch, marigolds (chains are mucky) as gloves , cardboard to kneel on and a plastic bin to throw the used muddy wet chains into.
And practice putting them on in benign surroundings if you can.
Fail to prepare……
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
If you've never used snowchains before I'd recommend getting a set of snow socks rather than chains, considerably easier to fit.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Thanks both!
Are socks as effective as chains?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
Personally I find them more effective, slightly less grippy on the contact part, but they cover the entire tyre.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
Take it steady. You'll probably not need chains but be prepared to use them (so practice putting them on in the dark at home). Decent tyres make the difference unless it's ridiculous. We came down without chains on all seasons last year in about 2 ft of snow. Was fine. Reckon we'd have needed them going up for the bits out of the hairpins though
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Depends, different tools for different jobs. But given reports chains will always get you there whereas socks maybe not. But whichever you choose careful that cheap ones of either ilk may not be the way to go either.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
As well as all the good advice above make sure you've got plenty of food, drinks and fuel in case you get stuck for hours in traffic.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
And also think about where the car will stay during the trip. If outside, my tip is to clear any snow off the car each morning at breakfast and maybe again before bed or around dinner, if it's gonna dump all week. If diesel then tank up close to resort.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
If you have a snow/ice drive setting then use it. Try and stay of the brakes. Gently gently touchy feely on all pedals. Look well ahead, anticipate well in advance.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
@Astontech, probably stating the obvious - but check what type(s) of chains are compatible with your wheels. Modern SUVs will often only take chains on narrower wheels than the ones supplied as standard and/or front-fitting chains. Also check which wheels you should fit the chains to (should be in your manual).
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
To clarify Andy’s point, if diesel make sure that you approach the Alps with a significantly empty tank and fill up there. Diesel sold in the Alps has a different recipe from that sold at low altitude to prevent it from freezing. TBH £150 on covered parking may well be worth every penny!
Just take it steady. Remember you want two sets of chains for your AWD. The tortoise beats the hare.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Get decent screenwash as well, undiluted stuff might be required at the moment, it was here (Highlands) last week.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Time your drive in and out of resort to coincide with quiet periods, when there is good light. If possible good weather too. There can be nothing worse than sitting in a queue on a steep icy snowed road trying to make progress because a bus cannot pass another bus on a tight u bend or because of an avalanche.
Everybody and their dog drives up on Friday and Saturday, and leaves after the last lift on Sunday. Gets busy and dangerous if you are not a confident driver.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
Take a collapsible snow shovel with metal blade. Depending on the depth of snow when you come to leave it can take a couple hours to dig the car out.
Put low temperature screen wash in the wash bottle. It is worth searching for-30 stuff.
To me the biggest problem driving in snow, especially at night is visibility. Front fog lamps are better than headlights.
Normal sensible driving is even more important in snow or icy conditions. Leave a good gap to the car in front. If the conditions going uphill look tricky wait until you see the vehicles ahead have cleared them before going yourself. Use low gear on descents. Smooth steady progress is better than stop start. Switch off traction control.
Have warm clothing readily available - just in case.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
Wow… thank you so much everyone. A lot to take on board.
I think I’d prefer socks to chains.
Any thoughts on these?
https://amzn.eu/d/2Kffo65
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Just to clarify, winter diesel is sold throughout France by law in the winter months. Specialist filling stations rather than supermarkets in the alpes may sell class F diesel that waxes at a lower temperature but I’ve never seen it.
Problems with diesel waxing are more likely to occur in Italy where winter diesel is only mandated in the mountainous areas.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
@Astontech, it does look VERY snowy and I wouldn't be surprised if chains or socks were compulsory on Saturday. You and your car sound very capable but you are at the mercy of others and compulsory chainage is designed to reduce the number of ill-prepared numpties blocking the road for everybody else.
Lots of good advice in this thread. You say "Friday or Saturday" but what will determine your timing?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Take a collapsible snow shovel with metal blade. Depending on the depth of snow when you come to leave it can take a couple hours to dig the car out.
Put low temperature screen wash in the wash bottle. It is worth searching for-30 stuff.
To me the biggest problem driving in snow, especially at night is visibility. Front fog lamps are better than headlights.
Normal sensible driving is even more important in snow or icy conditions. Leave a good gap to the car in front. If the conditions going uphill look tricky wait until you see the vehicles ahead have cleared them before going yourself. Use low gear on descents. Smooth steady progress is better than stop start. Switch off traction control.
Have warm clothing readily available - just in case.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Coming through Megeve there are no very steep or difficult roads. But one of my visitors had to put his chains on coming up the quite steep climb out of Sallanches to Megeve. He made that decision when the huge lorry in front of him, stopped in the traffic, started sliding slowly down towards him. He was glad he'd left plenty of room - that's amongst the most important bits of advice. Stay well behind the vehicle in front.
That's very unusual - I drove up that hill loads of times and never had to put chains on before Notre Dame de Bellecombe. But conditions do look exceptional (albeit fab for your holiday - they really need more snow!). 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Snow Socks
I’ve just bought a set of K&K Pro snow socks. There have been a number of video test reviews of different socks recently, and these seem to come out ahead on most of them. They’re made in the USA and the company is now selling them in the UK and Europe via Amazon. For our vehicle, the budget version (white tread) was £85 and the ‘Pro’ version (which is the one in all the reviews, and has a black tread) was £157. The K&K website has a sizing guide. The pack includes the socks; a pair of gloves; a wet bag for each sock; and a carrier bag.* The caveat is that these are for a car with summer tyres on, not all-seasons/winters (we're taking someone else's car this year, and I haven't been able to persuade them to swap to all-seasons, given the cost). So I see the socks as basically turning the summer tyres into snow-capable ones.
*[Just a tip: the Amazon K&K product page has size names that don’t exactly correspond to the size names on the K&K website (e.g. Amazon ‘XL’ is the same as K&K ‘XLarge - Pro’). The Amazon page also jumbles-up the budget and ‘Pro’ versions on the order page, so check the price. I contacted K&K and they confirmed the right one to order for our wheel size, and said they’d be sorting this out asap.]
Chains
I still think that chains will work on icy slopes when socks won't.
Advice to do a trial fitting is very important and some chain sets require you to adjust the links to fit your specific tyre circumference. On mine, this took 20 minutes per chain, on a spare wheel laid flat on the ground, in warm and bright conditions at home. This isn't something you want to be doing up a mountain road in the dark, cold and snow. Even if the chains are self-tightening, a test run of fitting is useful in showing you how they should fit, and gives you the opportunity to store them separated by a plastic sheet or similar, to avoid 'chain spaghetti' when you take them out again.
For your X3 xDrive (or any SUV, people-carrier or GT type model) check that your fitted wheels can even take chains. Most BMW 'M' variants (e.g. X3M or X3 in M Performance variant) have wider wheels which can't take conventional chains. I had to get front (of the wheel) fitting Spike Spiders for my M Performance car. Similarly, my little Peugeot 208 GT low-profile wheels and tyres can’t take chains for the same reason. Bear in mind that just because a chain set says it fits your tyre size, it doesn't mean that it'll fit your wheel setup. There may simply not be enough space left between the inside of the tyre and the wheel arch/suspension for the chains to rotate safely. The Owners Manual should have a detailed listing or ask your BMW Service Department.
BMW Washer Fluid
Be careful about mixing BMW with non-BMW washer concentrate. Mixing can lead to 'gunging' of the washer system and washer motor, and this can be very expensive to rectify. I use the 5 litre BMW winter concentrate, available from any BMW spares dept or online via Amazon. AS this is more concentrated than Halford and garage equivalents, the cost difference once diluted is only about £10 for a year's supply. This isn't a BMW scam to get you to buy their stuff - there's a genuine issue with mixing, and for the sake of a tenner it seems worth using the right stuff. Be aware that BMW will also use this if they service the car, so if it has non-BMW stuff in it this can be an issue, as th Owners Manual highlights only to use the BMW stuff.
BMW Snow/Sand/Gravel TRACTION Mode IMPORTANT
On my xDrive BMW, there's a special button marked with an icon of a car-with-wriggly-lines. This does various things, but in essence, you press it for 3 seconds when going onto snow/gravel/sand and you should see 'TRACTION' appear on the instrument panel. You can do this when the vehicle is in motion - it doesn't have to be stationary. When you're back on solid tarmac, you press it again and 'TRACTION' should disappear from the display. It gets reset when you turn the engine off but it's important to turn it off once you're back on solid tarmac. You can easily try it out ahead of needing to use it, but I'd recommend to do it in light traffic, on a straight road, at under 40 mph. Give yourself the space to turn TRACTION on, drive for a short distance, and then turn it off again, without any junctions or roundabouts.
Accessories
As mentioned, we also carry a folding shovel; an extending snow brush; a carpet square to kneel on; head torch; and warning flare. We found a snow brush invaluable last year when trying to clear away thick snow covering the car roof: using anything else threatens to leave scratches and/or get gloves sodden. But it doesn't need to be anything complicated: a simple nylon brush on the end of an expandable handle is all you need.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Thu 8-01-26 13:29; edited 29 times in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I once made the mistake of running out of food on a Saturday when it was snowing a bit. I drove down to Praz-sur-Arly then on the way back the local police were making people put chains on at the roundabout where the D218B turns off up to Notre Dame de Bellecombe then Les Saisies. There were still cars all over the road for the first two bends putting on chains.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You can prepare for the drive brilliantly, but you cannot prepare for people who do not. That is the greatest risk when driving in busy periods. Are you taking a dog?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Origen wrote: |
@Astontech, it does look VERY snowy and I wouldn't be surprised if chains or socks were compulsory on Saturday. You and your car sound very capable but you are at the mercy of others and compulsory chainage is designed to reduce the number of ill-prepared numpties blocking the road for everybody else.
Lots of good advice in this thread. You say "Friday or Saturday" but what will determine your timing? |
my timing is determined by the weather. I’m hoping for a break on the snow to make the ascent.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Bigtipper wrote: |
| You can prepare for the drive brilliantly, but you cannot prepare for people who do not. That is the greatest risk when driving in busy periods. Are you taking a dog? |
the dog is staying at home!
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
@Astontech, Don't over-stress about it, you'll be fine. With 3PSMF-marked tyres and awd you will have no problems whatsoever, unless you were to be particularly clumsy with the controls, and even then your advanced traction control and ABS will save you from most things.
Snow socks? No, I seriously would not bother. If conditions are bad enough for you to be unable to drive as you are then you would need proper chains. I've said before that in 20+ years of living in and around the mountains with proper winter tyres and awd I have never needed to fit chains, which is not to say you should not bother with them, but snowsocks will not give the level of grip that you would be looking for if your 3psmf tyres could not cope on their own. We're really talking only about sheet ice, and in practice if you get that in any quantity the road will be shut due to all the other improperly-equipped idiots who've already slid off into each other.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| Astontech wrote: |
| my timing is determined by the weather. I’m hoping for a break on the snow to make the ascent. |
I would suggest that trying to avoid the bulk of other people arriving is more important than the weather itself. The road will get regularly plowed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I have drven to the French Alps a number of times and have encountered heavy snow on the road up from the valley. I also drive a BMW with X-Drive and have all season tyres. I do carry a set of chains as well but have never had to use them. Take it steady and you should be fine.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
The important thing to remember is that all wheel drive cars give you more traction in the snow when accelerating and turning, but no additional traction when braking.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| lower wrote: |
| The important thing to remember is that all wheel drive cars give you more traction in the snow when accelerating and turning, but no additional traction when braking. |
The fact is though that the modern TCS as used on 4wd systems like BMW's x-drive relies on individual braking of any given wheel, so while the total braking grip is not increased, the ability to stop safely and under control is much enhanced. Yes, many modern 2wd cars will have this as well, but it's kinda inherent in the 4wd ones.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| lower wrote: |
| The important thing to remember is that all wheel drive cars give you more traction in the snow when accelerating and turning, but no additional traction when braking. |
The fact is though that the modern TCS as used on 4wd systems like BMW's x-drive relies on individual braking of any given wheel, so while the total braking grip is not increased, the ability to stop safely and under control is much enhanced. Yes, many modern 2wd cars will have this as well, but it's kinda inherent in the 4wd ones. |
My point was to remind people that 4wd drive makes people think they've got much more traction all round because they can start, stop and steer when 2wd cars struggle. That usually translates into the assumption that braking is enhanced by 4wd as well, which it isn't. In fact 4wd cars braking performance is often worse than 2wd cars because they are generally heavier. The only real advantage that 4wd cars have under braking compared to 2wd is under engine braking, and the fact that decent 4wd cars are often fitted with All Season tyres as standard.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Wed 7-01-26 13:46; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Aside from all this tech-talk about wheels, it's important to realise that if the police have decided that you must put chains on, they will not have time for a discussion about how much traction you've got, or what good reviews your tyres have. Personally, I always put chains on at the first sign of loss of traction (which I could tell by sound, with my window open, before I felt it) because I could put them on very quickly (and without stupid rubber gloves which make the job ten times harder) and could then relax. I didn't have 4WD - I think police road blocks vary in the view they'll take of 4WD/AWD variations. A small kids beach spade is good for clearing snow from round the wheels. Make sure you're confident with the chains/socks if you're likely to have to put them on.
Next Saturday is not a particularly busy transfer day. I think if choosing a time to drive up to Les Saisies on Saturday, just from the traffic point of view, I'd want to get up there before mid-day. But the weather might be more of a factor. the road will be ploughed the whole time - until there are so many vehicles strewn around that the ploughs can't get past. 
If you have to put on chains or socks you might have a tatty old jacket handy, rather than get the sleeves of your shiny ski jacket mucky.
I prefer chains to socks but that's because it's what I'm used to. When I once tried to fit socks I found them more of a palaver. Good socks work OK on snowy roads.
Have snacks and plenty of water in the car. And plenty of fuel. There's none up at Les Saisies.
Where in Saisies are you staying?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
@Astontech, I am confident you will be fine. I have a merc estate with all wheel drive and cross-climate all season tires and never had an issue alie had to use chains in heavy snow. It also feels easier to go uphill than downhill which is what you are doing and they will attempt to keep the road clear for access to the village. Just take it easy and out your car in snow mode if you have it or turn off traction control. Lots of tips already on here. Just be mindful about access to your final destination as offer the last few 100m is the hardest up a side road to accommodation.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| Quote: |
they will attempt to keep the road clear for access to the village.
|
they certainly will, but that attempt might include insisting on chains for just about everybody
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
i may be doing a tour around different resort in '27 so have an interest in this thread.
I understood that you have to carry chains in austria, are socks an acceptable alternative or will the police insist on chains? i dont believe the same law for chains applies to france so socks could be an acceptable option?
I am sure some of the experienced drivers to resorts will correct my novice understanding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Origen wrote: |
Aside from all this tech-talk about wheels, it's important to realise that if the police have decided that you must put chains on, they will not have time for a discussion about how much traction you've got, or what good reviews your tyres have. Personally, I always put chains on at the first sign of loss of traction (which I could tell by sound, with my window open, before I felt it) because I could put them on very quickly (and without stupid rubber gloves which make the job ten times harder) and could then relax. I didn't have 4WD - I think police road blocks vary in the view they'll take of 4WD/AWD variations. A small kids beach spade is good for clearing snow from round the wheels. Make sure you're confident with the chains/socks if you're likely to have to put them on.
Next Saturday is not a particularly busy transfer day. I think if choosing a time to drive up to Les Saisies on Saturday, just from the traffic point of view, I'd want to get up there before mid-day. But the weather might be more of a factor. the road will be ploughed the whole time - until there are so many vehicles strewn around that the ploughs can't get past.
If you have to put on chains or socks you might have a tatty old jacket handy, rather than get the sleeves of your shiny ski jacket mucky.
I prefer chains to socks but that's because it's what I'm used to. When I once tried to fit socks I found them more of a palaver. Good socks work OK on snowy roads.
Have snacks and plenty of water in the car. And plenty of fuel. There's none up at Les Saisies.
Where in Saisies are you staying? |
I am staying at Residence Amaya. Good to know there is no fuel up there, thanks!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| MogulMonkey wrote: |
i may be doing a tour around different resort in '27 so have an interest in this thread.
I understood that you have to carry chains in austria, are socks an acceptable alternative or will the police insist on chains? i dont believe the same law for chains applies to france so socks could be an acceptable option?
I am sure some of the experienced drivers to resorts will correct my novice understanding. |
This is the govt's rules on driving in France in the designated mountain areas between 1 Nov and 31 March. You are required to carry chains or have winter of appropriately marles all season tyres - ideally you should have chains if you have winter tyres. @Origen, has suggested aboive that the police can insist that only cars fitted with chains or no cars at all can proceed if the conditions are unsafe - but IMO this would have to be in extreme situations but happy to be corrected.
https://www.service-public.gouv.fr/particuliers/actualites/A14389?lang=fr
Last edited by After all it is free  on Wed 7-01-26 14:47; edited 2 times in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
I guess at Amaya you'll have an allocated parking space, which is good - but perhaps outdoors? If you have room for a decent shovel, might be worth packing it! Or brush up on the French for "May I please borrow your shovel?".
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Leave the final 30km until after 9pm Sat.
Radar forecast says the worst of the storm will have blown thru by then.
The roads will be plowed clear.
Should be able to cruise up the hill, chainless.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
