 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi, I ski offpiste quite regularly, thankfully, I've never needed to call the emergency services so far.
I'm normally useless at knowing what part of the mountain I am on or what the name of the area or nearest piste or lift is.
What is the best way to relay my position to the emergency services?
Open Google maps & get coordinates?
What3words?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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What3words is regional so it won't be of much use outside the UK.
The area I ski has an SOS app (Bavaria (DE), Tirol (AT), South Tyrol (IT)) which automatically sends your coordinates to Mountain Rescue when you hit the button. It only works in those regions though, but other areas might have something similar?
On an iPhone, the compass app is the fastest default app to get coordinates. Maybe Android has something similar.
Would services not be able to locate you using your phone anyway? Or is it just that it takes longer?
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Mon 22-09-25 12:48; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'd be wary of what3words unless you're fluent in whatever local language it would use in your chosen location, and indeed if you know what language the person at the other end would be expecting.
There are a number of free apps available though that can automatically include your gps coordinates in a message and can be tailored to the country of your choice. The REGA app, for example, is used across Switzerland and can be used to raise the alarm with a single button push, then they'll call you if needed. Yes, that one is country-specific, but there are lots of others that can be set to the relevant emergency number wherever you find yourself.
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| Scarlet wrote: |
On an iPhone, the compass app is the fastest default app to get coordinates. Maybe Android has something similar.
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There's no standard app built-in, although some manufactures may include one by default. But there are plentt of simple oes around - I've always had one calle GPS Essentials installed on all my Android phones, I'm sure there are tones of others.
| Scarlet wrote: |
Would services not be able to locate you using your phone anyway? Or is it just that it takes longer? |
From your cell location? No, not very accurately, and not very quickly, and possibly only the police could do so anyway.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| Quote: |
Would services not be able to locate you using your phone anyway? Or is it just that it takes longer? |
From your cell location? No, not very accurately, and not very quickly, and possibly only the police could do so anyway. |
Gotcha. Though if there is some difficulty locating the party, the police will be getting involved anyway, at least round here it's not that unusual.
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OS locate is a good free app.
Can set it to the grid system of country you are in, then send cordinates via SMS if required
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I sometimes ski in Switzerland, so I just added the Rega app. Slightly different features to the Tirol version, but still looks easy to use. I particularly like their “add contacts” feature – I wish more services would make it that easy.
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@tangowaggon, may I ask how you are navigating off piste?
Anyway I use gps status to get lat-long wgs84 coordinates for location as a fun exercise as it gives the accuracy of the measurement as well as the visible constellation.
As@Chaletbeauroc, points out what3words comes in a variety of languages, choosing the one for the country you are in may be a good idea.
The biggest problem I can see is using a mobile phone. There are many places without mobile phone signals for example the grande Sassiere north of val d’Isère
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I haven't had to use it, but in France a guide recommended an app called SOS EU ALP [correction, this should be EchoSOS - thanks Scarlet] that can give your GPS coordinates to the call centre when you make an emergency call (and tells you the position if you need to give it to someone else).
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Mon 22-09-25 14:09; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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They don't generally use cell location as far as I'm aware.
PhoneFind and SARLOC both have the rescue team sending you an SMS message, which you click on, which opens a web page on your phone, where your browser reads your location from the phone & I think sends it back. That obviously relies on your phone's location services, and data coverage so it can pull the web site up. In UK that's not a massive issue these days as mostly you'll have data if you have signal.
Of course if you have an app (eh the SARLOC app) which reads your location... you don't need data, just SMS, and an ability to use the App.
But I think they'd use PhoneFind in preference anyway, if available, as it takes victim-error out of the loop.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Shakira wrote: |
| I haven't had to use it, but in France a guide recommended an app called SOS EU ALP that can give your GPS coordinates to the call centre when you make an emergency call (and tells you the position if you need to give it to someone else). |
Interesting, that's the Euregio one mentioned a couple of times above. It does indeed give coordinates, but I don't believe the emergency call feature will work in France, and the Bavarian/Tirolean rescue services won't be coming out that far! There are probably less confusing options if you're not in the serviced area.
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GPS coordinates are the way to go. I've noticed several times last season that I was going out of phone signal during tours and off-piste activity. I'm going to get a Garmin inReach for this season.
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You know it makes sense.
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@Scarlet, that's because I got the wrong app - oops! I must have that one from St Anton last year. The one recommended to me in France is EchoSOS.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Shakira, That would make sense!
I looked up EchoSOS in the app store and there are two versions – one with a red icon and one with a white icon. Anyone know the difference or which one to download? They seem to both be linked to the same provider https://echosos.com/en/ which says it works worldwide. The icon on the website is also red, so it's probably that one, but I wonder what the other is for?
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Scarlet, no idea, but I have the red one.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| tangowaggon wrote: |
Hi, I ski offpiste quite regularly, thankfully, I've never needed to call the emergency services so far.
I'm normally useless at knowing what part of the mountain I am on or what the name of the area or nearest piste or lift is.
What is the best way to relay my position to the emergency services?
Open Google maps & get coordinates?
What3words? |
The obvious one is - you leave that to your guide. I mean it's not like you're skiing off piste without having a scooby where you are on the mountain without a guide as that's just reckless to say the least...
And when discussing this with the guide we've used lots in the past he's anti What3Words. Not because it's 'bad' in itself, just the fact you're either going to be speaking 3 English words to a French person who's likey to miss hear them and write them down incorrectly, or you'll be miss-pronouncing French words to a French person who will write down what you've actually said. Either way you've just sent people tearing off to completely the wrong location.
Ideally use grid co-ordinates (less open to missunderstanding as only 10 different words) or failing that your last known position (chair you used/piste you turned off of/etc) and idea of where you went/how far - but again you face the language barrier/chance of missunderstandings.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Is using a PLB not a thing in Europe?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@hang11, yes of course, but what good is that when you're in the back country and trying to call out a rescue service to pick up the mate with a broken back and heavy bleeding from a punctured lung who's going nowhere without a spinal board and rotor blades?
At best, someone will turn up on skis or a skidoo about 20 minutes later, and they'll whip out their phone and make the call that you could have made. At worst, you hit the button and nothing happens because you forgot to pay your subscription, or the receiving authority decides it's likely yet another false positive.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
OS locate is a good free app.
Can set it to the grid system of country you are in, then send cordinates via SMS if required |
I'm pretty sure OS has/is terminating it.
Pulling Coordinates from google maps is pretty straight forward and can be pasted into an SMS etc
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| hang11 wrote: |
| Is using a PLB not a thing in Europe? |
No.
Used at sea, yes, globally, but not at all common for backcountry skiing. Would it work? Well probably, but would need to be routed through several agencies to get to the one you need, might take a lot longer than other methods and they'd still have no idea what was needed unless/until they managed to contact you.
I dare say it has its uses, but the vast majority of 'backcountry' in Europe is covered by mobile phone networks, and emergency calls can be made on any network so do not rely on you having a signal with ay specific operator.
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And on more recent phones, emergency calls will fall back to using satellite coverage.
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| Mjit wrote: |
| tangowaggon wrote: |
Hi, I ski offpiste quite regularly, thankfully, I've never needed to call the emergency services so far.
I'm normally useless at knowing what part of the mountain I am on or what the name of the area or nearest piste or lift is.
What is the best way to relay my position to the emergency services?
Open Google maps & get coordinates?
What3words? |
The obvious one is - you leave that to your guide. I mean it's not like you're skiing off piste without having a scooby where you are on the mountain without a guide as that's just reckless to say the least...
And when discussing this with the guide we've used lots in the past he's anti What3Words. Not because it's 'bad' in itself, just the fact you're either going to be speaking 3 English words to a French person who's likey to miss hear them and write them down incorrectly, or you'll be miss-pronouncing French words to a French person who will write down what you've actually said. Either way you've just sent people tearing off to completely the wrong location.
Ideally use grid co-ordinates (less open to missunderstanding as only 10 different words) or failing that your last known position (chair you used/piste you turned off of/etc) and idea of where you went/how far - but again you face the language barrier/chance of missunderstandings. |
What if it's your guide that is missing?
What3words seems to be out & I understand why.
Grid coordinates seem to be an international standard.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| ousekjarr wrote: |
@hang11, yes of course, but what good is that when you're in the back country and trying to call out a rescue service to pick up the mate with a broken back and heavy bleeding from a punctured lung who's going nowhere without a spinal board and rotor blades?
At best, someone will turn up on skis or a skidoo about 20 minutes later, and they'll whip out their phone and make the call that you could have made. At worst, you hit the button and nothing happens because you forgot to pay your subscription, or the receiving authority decides it's likely yet another false positive. |
Wow. Good to know.
Where I am it’s the preferred way to get help. I always carry one along with an inreach for non emergency comms. I was under the impression it was a worldwide standard for rescue response. The ease of use of a plb along with the being able to trust that there will be an immediate response is exactly what you want when you’re injured or freaking out. Much easier to push a button than unlock a phone and find a number.
Hit the button and a heli gets dispatched immediately with paramedics and flies in on the signal. If it’s in an alpine environment an avi response plam kicks in and another heli will pick up a crew from the nearest ski field including a dog team and get to the location of the beacon.
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| ousekjarr wrote: |
| And on more recent phones, emergency calls will fall back to using satellite coverage. |
I recently attended my annual CPR training As health professionals we were advised to use 112 instead of 999 particularly if using a mobile phone to make the call, or if looking after a casualty collapsed in the street or similar, as it gives a more precise location to the call handler. I'm not about to try calling it, but I was told it gives a location on the hone screen along with a code to give to the call handler which would translate to GPS coordinates.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@hang11, if you're in the middle of a remote glacier in Svalbard then they may very well send a chopper, but if you're within 2 miles of a ski resort they're more likely to get someone from there to help. The major problem with a PLB is the one-way nature of it, that it can mean anything from "I'm lost and exhausted and have twisted my ankle and lost a ski, but have pitched a tent and have food for 24 hours, please come and get me when you can" to "I'm hanging by my fingernails over a crevasse and need help NOW"
Which is why a phone is more immediate and also more useful as that previously unknown priority can be changed quickly to be very urgent, and the situation could be made very clear - "I'm down a crevasse, so not visible from the surface", or "I was carried into a forest by an avalanche and I've heard and felt two more since then"
And also why those with a PLB might be tempted not to use it until it's too late, as in the first case it could trigger a bill for €25K that isn't necessary and which your insurance could therefore refuse to cover, while in the second case they definitely would, if they could just reach it, which they probably couldn't. The ideal would be something which is automatically triggered by a collision or by a sudden change in pulse, blood pressure or whatever, but there are just too many ways that these could generate a false alarm. Strangely enough, that's what car manufacturers are also finding with their collision detection software which calls the emergency services if it detects an impact big enough to trigger an airbag - it has no way to know whether you then got out and walked away wondering why the airbag went off, or are dead at the bottom of a cliff.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Mon 22-09-25 20:04; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
he major problem with a PLB is the one-way nature of it,
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This is why an InReach or (even better) sat phone is the best option because it allows two way communication along with co-ordinates.
People talking about mobile phones using satellites need to be aware that the coverage is pretty variable depending on continent etc - I'm in Canada and some of the geostationary satellites are a long way south which isn't ideal if you are in a valley pointing E-W.
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You know it makes sense.
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@ousekjarr, different use case where I am. Very little cellphone reception outside of major population centres, helicopter call outs aren’t charged for, so the expectation is that the beacon should be activated at the earliest time if there’s an incident where rescue and evacuation may be needed. Use the inreach for non urgent comms - ie gonna be home a couple days late.
I carry a PLB for all back country travel and even at work (in the mountains) outside of ski season or operational hours. That will get an accurate location that rescuers can track. They are pretty much standard issue.
Good to know it won’t do me much good in Europe. Japan is the same.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@sweaman22, how exactly do you think that an InReach or sat phone works?
They use the same technology and likely the same signal strength as a mobile phone.
See https://support.apple.com/en-gb/101573
Apple use Globalstar, which is a mesh of LEO satellites which are not geostationary. InReach uses Iridium, which is a mesh of LEO satellites which are not geostationary. Apple also offer the ability for service providers to sell you general satellite access using StarLink, e.g. T-Mobile, Vodafone, etc. Android phones have similar options.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@sweaman22, I would disagree with it being the best option. Response time for inreach SOS is about 12 minutes on average by the time it gets a satellite. The signal can be blocked easier by terrain. A PLB has a more powerful transmission. The inreach also transmits its location when the sos is activated, a PLB transmits constantly, so a heli will pick that signal up and follow it in.
I use both. Good to have the inreach as a backup but if I was needing help ASAP it would be the PLB I hit first. Obviously based on this thread where you are makes a difference to how you do it, but for me in Aoteora that’s pretty much standard practice .
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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An InReach has a much bigger antenna than a mobile phone and size matters.... my point was that GlobalStar coverage LEO is not global - although it's considerably better than when I last looked so things are improving.
I think it's very location dependant and either option is going to be better than nothing. Local SAR recommendations always mention InReach and not a PLB. My understanding is that if SAR don't know anything (i.e beacon - no communication) then they have to assemble a full team (which can take a while) where as if they know the nature of the issue they can respond faster. However faster is still going to be hours not minutes unless you're so close to civilization it likely doesn't matter.
Personal example. I broke and dislocated my shoulder backcountry skiing at -20C in January in the Canadian rockies at 4pm. Too late for a helicopter (almost all Canadian helicopters a Visual Flight Rules only so can't take off in the dark or fog.. ) but we had an InReach. They sent a rescue sled up the nearest forest service road whilst I slowly walked out to there for ~4 hours. The SAR team said it was good we had communication as otherwise we'd have had to spend the night....
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Don't forget that Garmin Inreach is illegal in some countries. PLBs are also illegal in Japan (and no doubt other nations). Iphone style emergency satellite alerts are also restricted to specific nations. Last time I looked Japan was exuded.
However I know of a fellow snowhead who used the iphone emergency satellite system in the UK where there was no cell coverage to initiate a rescue and it all worked as advertised.
I have the EchoSOS app installed although I can't vouch for it's effectiveness.
Generally it's the case of understanding what will work and is legal in the place you are exploring.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I've had an InReach for a number of years, (as I often ski-tour on my own) and find it a tad irksome to pay the monthly subscription for when I'm nowhere near the mountains, even though you can buy six months but it all works out pretty well the same, and for instance, when not using it in the mountains in the Summer*.
I'll be using it in Brazil soon when we do some 25km+ downwinder kitesurfing along the coast, should S**t happen.
As I've said before, once you have it you're loathed to stop the subscription, I thought I'd misplaced mine and was all ready to buy another one until I remembered I'd loaned it to a *friend who leads a party of French of "vinatge" hikers in the Summer months and it was a good security backup as I know he's technically illiterate and would have trouble initiating an emergency call, along with the rest of the group, so vital minutes could be saved !!!
So out of interest who else apart from @hang11, who I know has one, uses one?
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| Weathercam wrote: |
| I've had an InReach for a number of years, (as I often ski-tour on my own) and find it a tad irksome to pay the monthly subscription ... |
It's the monthly subs which puts me off, otherwise I'd have one in my standard kit. I'd be much happier if there was (say) a charge of something like a grand for the device, then a very large cost per use... because I don't intend to ever use the thing, and If I was to use it, money would not be the issue. Where I've been well out of communications - back country Alaska for example - I've used sat phones, which you could rent for a period etc.
An In-Reach rental service could be a business, I suppose... but I can see why that's not really going to work. A phone is much more useful, if you're taking costs in that way.
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Inreach is great, it’s sfa in terms of subs - $25 a month (2 pints) hardly worth noticing compared to helis, new boots, split boards etc etc, but mines cost is covered by work anyway - health and safety obligations. Great to have in the pocket for emergency comms, I have a Fenix watch too, which works well with it.
The tracking is good - use it for patrol on control routes to follow them in low viz, good to see where they are and good to be able to estimate how long they will be until they are finished and terrain can be opened. Much better to have passive tracking than be hassling and micro managing on radio calls.
And I’m lucky to be in a country that can’t charge for an emergency call out. Cost is never a consideration for hitting the button. In reality I would have to have a leg hanging off or something before I used it, and I think most people would.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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FAQ
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