 Poster: A snowHead
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| Sarge McSarge wrote: |
@Jack_nice,
Your scenario 3 is a pipe dream. The world is pretty much at 1.5 C already and speed of increase is higher than forecast.
Scenario 2 is likely to be the only hope but due to the concerted efforts or the fossil fuel industry scenario 1 is where the world is heading.
A sad and scary future for the younger generations and all of those who failed to do anything will go down is history as the planet killers. |
The younger generation are doing a good enough job themselves without my input. See the aftermath of events like Glastonbury.
They are the recycling disposable generation.
I suspect the carbon footprint for the first 18 years of life from 1966-1985 (my era) versus 2006-2025 is significantly and statistically different.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I think the really high resorts don't have good terrain.
Way to rocky and steep. But yeah there are probably some good spots for a resort. So maby this could happen
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Jack_nice,
I think each of your scenarios for each level of global warming is wildly optimistic for the survival of skiing. Just look at how the last 30 years in ski resorts has pushed skiing 'up the mountain', for want of a better phrase, (assuming you have knowledge of skiing that far back) when back in the 90s global warming wasn't considered a thing outside (then) extreme futurologists.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Kenzie wrote: |
@Jack_nice,
I think each of your scenarios for each level of global warming is wildly optimistic for the survival of skiing. Just look at how the last 30 years in ski resorts has pushed skiing 'up the mountain', for want of a better phrase, (assuming you have knowledge of skiing that far back) when back in the 90s global warming wasn't considered a thing outside (then) extreme futurologists. |
I did my first season in 93/94, based in Ellmau, Austria
Snow and skiing from the end of November through to the third week of March when the links between resorts started melting
Crystal were then moving my end of March / beginning of April guests to places like Obergurgl
A week later it absolutely chucked it down and we had powder down to 1,000m in April
Similar trend the past 3-4 seasons
N of 1 but that's been my experience in the Alps
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Mike Pow, Have been skiing from Munich since 85. We've had seasons with no snow until late Jan, and seasons where it dumped in November. Seasons where the snow was almost gone beginning of April and seasons where it has lasted till May. Proves nothing. What does prove it is the way the glaciers are behaving. They are great big averaging engines, and the average is unquestionably pointing down.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Steilhang wrote: |
| @Mike Pow, Have been skiing from Munich since 85. We've had seasons with no snow until late Jan, and seasons where it dumped in November. Seasons where the snow was almost gone beginning of April and seasons where it has lasted till May. Proves nothing. What does prove it is the way the glaciers are behaving. They are great big averaging engines, and the average is unquestionably pointing down. |
Or up in terms of altitude for consistent, dependable snow cover
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Ski seasons are undeniably shrinking at lower altitudes in the alps. Resorts under 1500m have seen major reductions in snow reliability and season length. While higher altitude resorts (above 2000m) are still faring better, even they’re experiencing more rain events, and the glaciers are retreating at an alarming rate.
According to the European Environment Agency (EEA, 2022), Alpine glaciers have lost about 60% of their volume since 1850, with the most rapid losses occurring in the past two decades.
A 2023 study in Nature Climate Change confirms that the snow season has shortened by 38 days on average across European mountains since 1960, especially below 2000m.
MeteoSwiss has also reported a sharp increase in winter rain events up to 3000m, with 2023 seeing record-breaking December rainfall as warm spells pushed freezing levels well above traditional snow zones (MeteoSwiss report, 2023).
Anecdotally, I’ve heard that January and February rain events are also becoming more common in Hokkaido, which was almost unheard of a decade ago. Though I’d defer to @Mike Pow, on what he’s seen firsthand over the years in Japan.
It’s hard to be optimistic, but it reinforces the need to enjoy it while we can
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Wed 2-07-25 11:59; edited 1 time in total
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Of course skiing may simply become unfashionable. For example, when was the last time you saw a windsurfer?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| BobinCH wrote: |
Anecdotally, I’ve heard that January and February rain events are also becoming more common in Hokkaido, which was almost unheard of a decade ago. Though I’d defer to @Mike Pow, on what he’s seen firsthand over the years in Japan.
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There's always at least warm day and rain event in January and February each season
At least in my experience between 2006-2024
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Gaschney in the Vosges will not reopen next winter, despite a "good" season (they opened for 9 days !). "It's the end of the road for skiing" says the mayor. It's neighbour, Tanet, closed last winter. Small resorts certainly but one by one the lights are going out over lift served skiing in Europe. St Pierre de Chartreuse sold its chairlift a few weeks ago and the cable car is shuttered for good.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I wonder how much the summer season is a bigger swing factor than the quality of the winter season, due to the high marginal profitability of a bit of extra revenue?
Last week, Chamonix town centre was absolutely heaving - busier than any peak winter day. Every restaurant in Argentiere was full. I must have been passed by over 50 e-bikes on the hiking trail where I'd normally be surprised to see more than 5. The hiking trails are a conga line of tour-du-mont blanc backpackers. Hosting the world climbing champs draws in a huge crowd.
Looking at how other resorts like Morzine have developed their summer activities, I can see a future even if the skiing becomes more variable.
Was Gascheny another resort kept alive by subsidies or were 3 lifts and 300m of vert commercially viable standalone?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Report towns like Chamonix, Zermatt and the Dolomites have always been busier in the summer. Skiing was the additional attraction to get them through winter and make use of the railway.
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@Peter S, nuance being summer day trippers, that PIMA ... idiots all of them
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You know it makes sense.
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@under a new name, my perception is that the last 10-15 years in Chamonix has seen a major shift from day trippers to longer stays. UTMB week must be over 20,000 guests at what used to be the tail end of summer with low bookings. Climbing champs, jazz festival, the various other trail running events etc all attract people for a few days.
Have you seen a big shift in rental apartment demand over the long term?
Summer in Argentiere used to be dead- now our apartment car park is almost like February half term week.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| snowdave wrote: |
Was Gascheny another resort kept alive by subsidies or were 3 lifts and 300m of vert commercially viable standalone? |
Resorts with drag lifts can work financially as they can be run by volunteers (at least in France) with very low costs - flip a switch and fire up the lifts when there is snow. Where resorts go wrong is when the put in complex infrastructure like St Pierre de Chartreuse with very big annual costs. A few bad winters and you are toast. Everyone told St Pierre that buying a six man chair was a bad idea back in 2006, was it? but they passed a lot of the costs onto the public purse so it made sense for them.
In the case of Gasheny the mayor wants to refocus on what is marketable and sustainable long term without the distraction of a few days skiing each winter which can still be done over the hill at la Bresse.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
Warming is limited to around 1.5 °C or less.
AI optimizes snowmaking, lift energy, and sustainability.
Resorts use solar, hydro, and battery systems to run entirely off renewaables. |
This scenario is already out of date: 1.5C increase is almost already here, even policy makers accept that 2C would be a good result. Resorts already use renewables for lifts, but what is required is for countries to be using them at scale* and resorts already use 'AI' (i.e.computer technology) to optimise snowmaking/lifts/snow grooming etc
* Currently on holiday on Paxos in Greece where they have abundant sunshine and unbelievably few solar panels. There have been four power cuts this week, presumably due to the drain on the grid caused by aircon as temperatures hit 40C. I find it incredible that they aren't producing and storing electricity from PV on a massive scale (although apparently renewables represent 57% of their power generation). [We have solar at home and feed back more to the grid than we take out, including charging an EV and that's from UK levels of sunshine]
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FAQ
