 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Have to say that I've never understood the lackadaisical attitude to closing the safety bar in the US. They're so cautious on all other aspects, probably fearing legal action, but they don't enforce closure of the safety bar ! To me this seems bizarre.
Of course, can't know if falling from the chair was caused by that ... so could be barking up completely the wrong tree.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Blackblade wrote: |
Have to say that I've never understood the lackadaisical attitude to closing the safety bar in the US. They're so cautious on all other aspects, probably fearing legal action, but they don't enforce closure of the safety bar ! To me this seems bizarre.
Of course, can't know if falling from the chair was caused by that ... so could be barking up completely the wrong tree. |
barking up the wrong tree
There's no safety bar. So it's either not ski that part of the mountain, or not at that mountain.
(this is fairly old news, discussed at length on the US ski social media)
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| abc wrote: |
There's no safety bar. So it's either not ski that part of the mountain, or not at that mountain.
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Looking at the article linked by @hamilton it shows a photo of a chairlift with safety bars, but I see it says it's a stock photo, so presumably not the one involved in the incident.
Encountering US chairlifts without a safety bar is certainly a bit of a culture shock for European visitors.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Alastair Pink, the incident had been discussed at various US based ski forums. According to people familiar with the ski resort, there’s no safety bar on that particular lift.
I learned to ski in the US at some small hills in the Midwest. Safety bars are rare as hen’s teeth! On the other hand, the lifts were typically skimming the surface, at most at tree top level. So there’s none of the worries about falling off the chair. Even to this day, I just don’t feel it’s all that big a deal if one use the bar or not unless it’s on a windy day. One of my ski buddy has a fear of height. But even she doesn’t bother with the safety bar unless the chair we’re on are actually off the ground by a good height.
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Now indicated that strong wind gusts led to "deropement" of the lift. Not sure if that means the chair came off the cable, or the cable came off one or more pylons. Easy to see how someone could fall from a chair with no safety bar in that situation
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| Quote: |
| On the other hand, the lifts were typically skimming the surface, at most at tree top level. So there’s none of the worries about falling off the chair |
Definitely nothing to worry about if you only plunge to the ground from tree-top height 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Aren't we all getting older and wiser !?
It is amazing how many chair lifts don't have bars in NA. But somehow kids at Mt. Bohemia, MI are having a blast jumping off chairlifts on purpose !
Guilty as charged - Loveland, CO
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| Cheapski wrote: |
Guilty as charged - Loveland, CO |
I’ll be your cellmate. Crystal Mtn WA.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
| No. Nothing to worry about. I used to do that on purpose |
Fine in all that North American powder @abc, @Scooter in Seattle and @Cheapski...Not so good dropping onto the (relatively) boiler plate Euro snow! 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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It's not the lack of bars per se which are increasingly rare and usually in relatively "minor" ski hills not massively frequented by international tourists but rather the US centric ambivalence or active resistance to "bar down". There is some element of "I don't need no namby pamby safety bar I know how to sit on my butt" element to that as if taking a simple measure to avoid an unlikely but high consequence risk is somehow emasculating.
I've never understood that but then just about anyone outside the US can't understand the US electorate and their preference for becoming a pariah state.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
just about anyone outside the US can't understand the US electorate and their preference for becoming a pariah state. |
Many INSIDE the US can’t understand it either.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| abc wrote: |
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
just about anyone outside the US can't understand the US electorate and their preference for becoming a pariah state. |
Many INSIDE the US can’t understand it either. |
We often disagree. Not this time!
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Poster: A snowHead
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“In 15 of the 50 states, non-use of seat belts is considered a secondary offense, which means that a police officer cannot stop and ticket a driver for the sole offense of not wearing a seat belt.” (wiki)
There is generally a different belief in restraints across the pond, it seems.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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They really restrict you when trying to fire your legally held assault rifle out of the car’s windows.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I guess there's a case for allowing people to take risks if they don't endanger others. Though unrestrained rear-seat passengers really do pose a risk for those in the front.
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I have come across the safety bar "resistance" thing a couple of times. It is just plain weird. Especially in a nation where in general people are polite and accommodating of others. I have never understood why anyone would object to someone on a chairlift wanting to lower the safety bar anyway, in fact I don't understand why anyone would NOT want the safety bar down. That, combined with the rudeness when I insisted, is so out of keeping with what I have generally experienced when visiting the states that it really stands out.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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<shrug> I've never had a problem in using the safety bar in the US when it was a democracy, or in Canada ever. There's a very minor protocol where you grab the thing, look at the other people, and then slowly lower it. I would say that it's like lots of social stuff, you just need to follow protocol and it works great. If you've ever lost your temper with a call centre operator or retail worker or airline check in, you'll probably get this wrong. I find European lift queues much more socially challenging. The chairlift thing is easy and single-shot; with the EU queue you have to have your elbows up all the time.
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+1
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@phil_w I agree European lift queues can be "challenging" with lots of what we would consider rude behaviour. And in general they are much more pleasant and polite in the US. But sorry, there are some on your side of the pond who do indeed dislike the safety bar coming down. no matter how politely you do it. And thank you for your lesson on the "protocol", of course this is a good lesson for me because I would never think it was a good idea to let others on the lift (politely) know that I intend to lower the bar nor would I ever wait until everyone was ready before doing so. Thanks for the education. That must be the reason I have had a somewhat impolite interaction a couple of times.
Not sure what the point would be of losing your temper with a customer service worker, or anyone else for that matter. Besides which it is just plain nasty to let loose on someone at the bottom of the organisation who is just trying to do their job. I don't know why you bring this up or what made you think of it. I can only imagine it is a thing for you.
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@zikomo, +1. I usually start a conversation with customer service with an apology in advance if I sound annoyed or frustrated, but acknowledge it's not their fault.
I don't see the problem with having the safety bar down, but then again, I've never skied in the USA.
Indeed, as I always wear a backpack so sit slightly further forward, I object when people try to lift the bar too early.
Nothing to be gained by lifting it before the safety netting apart from the possibility of falling off.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@zikomo, please don't assume that every time someone posts directly after you, that's its a direct attack on you. It just derails the thread.
What @phil_w, posted comes across as a general comment, relevant to what you'd posted but also to the trend of the discussion generally.
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@adithorp, I would tend to agree. Until I read it properly. It was an attempt to "educate". And the thing about losing your temper with a call centre operator was incongruous and a bit weird. Hard to imagine it was not some attempt to have a dig. Perhaps @phil_w, will enlighten us, I am happy to apologise if I got this wrong.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| zikomo wrote: |
| @adithorp, I would tend to agree. Until I read it properly. It was an attempt to "educate". And the thing about losing your temper with a call centre operator was incongruous and a bit weird. Hard to imagine it was not some attempt to have a dig. Perhaps @phil_w, will enlighten us, I am happy to apologise if I got this wrong. |
So re-read what you just wrote and see if could be interpreted as, "@adithorp, can't read properly" 
(I don't choose to believe that by the way)
In other words, just chill!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| adithorp wrote: |
In other words, just chill! |
Wise words. Unless you want to continue to try to forge a path as most pompous argumentative ass on sHS (there is stiff competition there). The call centre thing wasn't a dig - it was simply a reference to an everyday situation that is sometimes hard to get right because they often do the very opposite of what is on the tin being customer service.
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| adithorp wrote: |
| zikomo wrote: |
| @adithorp, I would tend to agree. Until I read it properly. It was an attempt to "educate". And the thing about losing your temper with a call centre operator was incongruous and a bit weird. Hard to imagine it was not some attempt to have a dig. Perhaps @phil_w, will enlighten us, I am happy to apologise if I got this wrong. |
So re-read what you just wrote and see if could be interpreted as, "@adithorp, can't read properly"
(I don't choose to believe that by the way)
In other words, just chill! |
I certainly did not mean that! But it does read like that so apologies.
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You know it makes sense.
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@Dave of the Marmottes, You must have missed my later post. Or just decided to pile on and be insulting for whatever other reason.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| zikomo wrote: |
| @Dave of the Marmottes, You must have missed my later post. Or just decided to pile on and be insulting for whatever other reason. |
Accuse me of piling in, I don't care.
You come across as pompous, sanctimonious, judgemental, aggressive, argumentative and having no self awareness. It's always other people, never you. It's tedious to find the good stuff that you do post
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Poster: A snowHead
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| zikomo wrote: |
| @Dave of the Marmottes, You must have missed my later post. Or just decided to pile on and be insulting for whatever other reason. |
This later post?
| Quote: |
| [quote="zikomo"]@adithorp, I would tend to agree. Until I read it properly. |
As adi has already pointed out to you this can easily be interpreted as "I would agree with you but I'm betterer at reading and understanding things than you and I know the true meaning"
Nevermind. Just an another thread that becomes about how perfect you are compared to the moral and intellectual weaklings that inhabit sHs rather than the subject matter .
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Dave of the Marmottes, I said my post does indeed read badly, and comes across as something I dod not intend, and then apologised. You seem to be the one with the problem.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| zikomo wrote: |
| @Dave of the Marmottes, You must have missed my later post. Or just decided to pile on and be insulting for whatever other reason. |
Accuse me of piling in, I don't care.
You come across as pompous, sanctimonious, judgemental, aggressive, argumentative and having no self awareness. It's always other people, never you. It's tedious to find the good stuff that you do post |
Well that tells me and everyone else everything we need to know about you.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@zikomo, I don't think so, but feel free to explain rather than leave it ad hominem
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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There you go - projection about me because I didn't have the foresight to read a post that you hadn't yet posted  . There wasn't a later post if you look at the time stamps when I posted, only the one in which you now admit you'd posted badly.
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@zikomo, @holidayloverxx, @Dave of the Marmottes,
Just FECKING CHILL!
(Back on subject)...
I don't get the point of not putting the safety bar down. Yes I can sit on my backside without falling off but I'm not sure I could stay there should there be a sudden stop, cable derailment or other lift issue causing a jolt (the recent case in Spain seems to indicate its not easy even with one, it would not be easy). Putting the bar down thousands of times feels like little inconvenience, compared to a tiny risk of death ( and unlike some, I doubt I'm capable of a gentle landing from 10m from an uncontrolled, inadvertent takeoff). There's also the bonus (in most cases) of somewhere to rest your feet thrown in.
I think it's polite to draw attention to the bar coming down no matter how inevitable that will be in the end.
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| adithorp wrote: |
| Yes I can sit on my backside without falling off but I'm not sure I could stay there should there be a sudden stop, cable derailment or other lift issue causing a jolt.... |
^ This.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Being a UK based American that regularly skis both sides of the pond, I find it weird how it's the norm in the US to not put the bar down. I was just out with a friend in Idaho/Montana and we rode several chairs with parents with young kids who wouldn't have put it down if we didn't initiate. It's just bizarre. Especially when there's a foot rest - when life provides a footrest, you take it!
We always initiated when we got on a chair - just a quick look across as we'd reach for the bar and something like "gonna bring the bar down if you don't mind" and no one cared.
I also though get annoyed with the over aggressive and quick slamming down of the bar we get a lot in Europe. My helmet has saved me more times in that scenario than from actual skiing.
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| Quote: |
We always initiated when we got on a chair - just a quick look across as we'd reach for the bar and something like "gonna bring the bar down if you don't mind" and no one cared.
I also though get annoyed with the over aggressive and quick slamming down of the bar we get a lot in Europe. My helmet has saved me more times in that scenario than from actual skiing.
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Both of these was my experience when riding in NA and in EU... If I had a Euro for every time I'd been clonked on the head by an overly keen bar drop, I'd have no idea how much I'd have because of al th cooonnnncccusssssioooonnnnnssss\zzz...
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FAQ
It’s pretty clear to me the cause of such frequent resistance.
