 Poster: A snowHead
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| Blackblade wrote: |
there's this feeling of exhilaration that you're in such a hostile environement but, with the benefit of modern kit, still warm and dry.
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I used to say that, when I was young(er). But having done that enough, I now just change the definition of "horrendous weather". Basically, if my clothing can keep me warm and dry, it's "good" weather. If not, it's horrendous.  And now that I'm "more mature", I don't get the "exhilaration" as before. It's just another "good weather day".
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| I've always said, and really mean it, that "I've never had a bad day skiing". |
I too, never had a bad day skiing. It's just some days, I don't ski. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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These days I definitely draw the line at prolonged skiing in driving rain.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Spent many years first to last lift but now we are older and have several weeks skiing we generally start about ten and finish 3.30ish, sometimes longer Fridays a bit earlier to miss the after lunch last day speedsters. We rarely stop for coffee and take a sandwich so actually ski most of the time we are out and as we go first week in Jan and come home beginning Feb there is no queues so no wasted time.
Love skiing in heavy snow too, the silence is unique
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8.30 or 9.00 depending which country/lift opening until 3.00 - 4.00 depending. Usually 20 mins for drink break at 11 ish. Sarnies on the run in the backpack. I work outside for a living so skiing with all the sitting down on gondolas and chairlifts is approx equivalent energy expenditure I would guess.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| sheffskibod wrote: |
The other way of asking this is how far do you ski in a typical day ?
Pottering gently from 08:30 to 16:30 is one thing …
So we did this on a recent trip to Alta Badia and went and did La longia and back. Started at 09:00 and got back at 16:30. 32 km actual skiing.
Skiing fast on your own or a small group is another …
A previous trip to Kronplatz I did 48 km between 09:00 and 13:00…
I don’t think I am capable of that intensity for a full day…
But both days tiring in different ways. |
Kronplatz is on my radar after that post!! What month was that?
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I have skied with lots of different groups over the years and they fall in to 3 categories:
1. "I ski from first to last lift, and take a picnic as I hate wasting time". Vertical skied is less than my family would ski in a morning. Constant stops on runs, chats about where to go next, breaks to fiddle with kit, breaks to "admire scenery", breaks on runs because of tired legs (especially after a steep/challenging section).
2. "I start reasonable early, have a mid-morning break and a proper sit down lunch. Couple of hours in the afternoon finishing with a beer around lift closing time". Ski a lot more vertical than category 1. General modest about ability but very good skiers. No complaints of "tired legs" and 1000m plus descents do not require any stops or breaks.
3. "I ski for the pleasure of being in the mountains". Generally very good skiers. Have a later start and a longer lunch. Definitely fair weather skiers and happy to call it a day when conditions deteriorate (e.g. unlikely to ski much in the afternoon when spring arrives). Very happy people.
There is some cross-over between 2 and 3, some of my family and friends fall into either category at different times (especially spring skiing).
There is a fourth category of genuinely hard skiers who go at it from first to last lift. They are few and far between. And as they are that good they don't see it as a big deal (and recognise that many others don't aspire to their level of skiing) so don't tend to boast about it. I am getting a bit older now so it's a hard day if I get a group like that, and it is not something I would want to do every day, but there is a lot of pleasure to be had from skiing hard for a day with really good skiers.
I agree with some posters that a more insightful answer is how far does one ski every day, rather than how long. The two are not at all correlated.
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Typically when it was just myself and the missus, we used to do first lift until last lift, baguette in the pocket and drinks on the slopes - first lift was totally dependant on the level of hangover we could manage, but we'd usually be skiing down after the lifts had closed. 
These days taking the kids it's a bit different due to extra faffage, but I get grumpy if we're not on the lift by 10am, definitely feel like I'm wasting one of 6 days that I've paid a fortune for. Thankfully, my kids seem happy to rinse the day and stay out until things shut, I don't think we got back to the hotel at Christmas before 5pm, albeit usually after a quick apres drink.
We went with friends last Easter in ADH who were a lot more stop/start than us and we did a lot of heading back to the apartment to eat, which was nice in one way but definitely encouraged people to get a bit sleepy on the sofas and laid back, which meant time off the slopes - I'm like a coiled spring when we do any stopping, I just want to eat/drink and be back on the snow. I look at it as paying a ton of money so would prefer to know I've gotten maximum slope time (unless the weather has other things to say about it)
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| dynastar84 wrote: |
Kronplatz is on my radar after that post!! What month was that? |
Mid Jan 2024 with a pal. Stayed in St Vigilio
That intense session was with a Snowhead called Giovanni (agos1) I met up with and one of his friends who ski a lot in the area.
Quite possibly the best skier I have ever spent time with but crikey could he motor …and I think he was well into his 60’s.
One brief espresso stop mid morning but otherwise full on high speed short turn carving top to bottom with minimal pauses.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The majority of groups I ski with have different levels of skier in them and if you're skiing as a group you can't go faster than the slowest skier.
Stops allow people to catch up, not taking off after a stop is a matter of courtesy to the slower skier.
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| sheffskibod wrote: |
| dynastar84 wrote: |
Kronplatz is on my radar after that post!! What month was that? |
Mid Jan 2024 with a pal. Stayed in St Vigilio
That intense session was with a Snowhead called Giovanni (agos1) I met up with and one of his friends who ski a lot in the area.
Quite possibly the best skier I have ever spent time with but crikey could he motor …and I think he was well into his 60’s.
One brief espresso stop mid morning but otherwise full on high speed short turn carving top to bottom with minimal pauses. |
Definitely category 4! Sounds like you had a great day, and what a joy to ski with locals of that standard.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| T Bar wrote: |
The majority of groups I ski with have different levels of skier in them and if you're skiing as a group you can't go faster than the slowest skier.
Stops allow people to catch up, not taking off after a stop is a matter of courtesy to the slower skier. |
I have always skied at the back of the groups I've been with from first wife and young kids to current wife and her kids who learnt when teenagers, my current wife was a nervous and rather unfit learner at 40, she would have given up if I hadn't encouraged her by skiing behind to help her up and ski at her speed, she now skis any run we find and at a pretty decent pace, does moguls and some off piste, we stop and admire the view when we want too, we now have another generation that I'm following down the piste . I enjoy watching people gain confidence and improve, it really annoys me seeing men tearing off in front of their wives who struggle to keep up, it's no wonder they give up, skiing should be fun for all the family/ group not just the best skiers
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Most days we are always early starters as we drop kids off for lessons, after that it just depends on how we are feeling. IMO worst thing you can do is push it if you're not really feeling it, more likely to hurt yourself. I would rather finish early i.e. 2 for example, have a wander around town than keep pushing and fall and hurt myself meaning I can't go out the next day.
Our latest holiday my back was playing up so often ended earlier than I have previously but still a really enjoyable and relaxing holiday.... (well bar the horrible half term lift queues)
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[quote="robs1"]
| T Bar wrote: |
The majority of groups I ski with have different levels of skier in them and if you're skiing as a group you can't go faster than the slowest skier.
Stops allow people to catch up, not taking off after a stop is a matter of courtesy to the slower skier. |
I have always skied at the back of the groups I've been with from first wife and young kids to current wife and her kids who learnt when teenagers, my current wife was a nervous and rather unfit learner at 40, she would have given up if I hadn't encouraged her by skiing behind to help her up and ski at her speed, she now skis any run we find and at a pretty decent pace, does moguls and some off piste, we stop and admire the view when we want too, we now have another generation that I'm following down the piste . I enjoy watching people gain confidence and improve, it really annoys me seeing men tearing off in front of their wives who struggle to keep up, it's no wonder they give up, skiing should be fun for all the family/ group not just the best skiers[/quote ]
I guess there are lots of different reasons why people ski in different positions . I have to confess I always ski in front of my wife. SHe prefers me to go at the front and feels safest at the back.It's how we always skied with the kids.I'm also a far better navigator.
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You know it makes sense.
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All day from start to end , but now i dont do the "one last run" as thats the one i always hurt myself 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Love skiing in heavy snow too, the silence is unique[/quote]
Agree, very special.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| sheffskibod wrote: |
| dynastar84 wrote: |
Kronplatz is on my radar after that post!! What month was that? |
Mid Jan 2024 with a pal. Stayed in St Vigilio
That intense session was with a Snowhead called Giovanni (agos1) I met up with and one of his friends who ski a lot in the area.
Quite possibly the best skier I have ever spent time with but crikey could he motor …and I think he was well into his 60’s.
One brief espresso stop mid morning but otherwise full on high speed short turn carving top to bottom with minimal pauses. |
Mass respect for smashing that many miles short turns full gas. I am currently at the ride the sidecut as much as I can stage which is much less tiring than heel pushing for me. Something for me to aim for hopefully one day.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Someone above mentioned, how far v how long on the mountain,
I'm not really into numbers, but last trip we boarded 3.5 days and on strava we covered 250km. This obviously includes lift distances too, I've nothing to compare this too , so would this be a normal day out for most???
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Nadenoodlee wrote: |
| Until lunch then I lose interest. |
Mrs NDD and myself usually have a late breakfast, then get on 1st lift approx 11am, ski for 1 hour, then coffee break, then ski another hour then lunch, break, ski for 1 more hour then coffee break, download to village followed by coffee and cake (its a holiday innit)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Typically lifts open until about 3-ish, with a restaurant lunch in the middle of that. More than enough skiing for me, pacing myself. This ‘early ending’ evolved in recent years, listening to my body, I can sense technique fading mid afternoon.
When I used to ski until lifts closed with a mate, we were probably starting mid morning, nursing hangovers
I prefer the empty corduroy posts of the first couple of hours on the mountain.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| nahdendee wrote: |
| Nadenoodlee wrote: |
| Until lunch then I lose interest. |
Mrs NDD and myself usually have a late breakfast, then get on 1st lift approx 11am, ski for 1 hour, then coffee break, then ski another hour then lunch, break, ski for 1 more hour then coffee break, download to village followed by coffee and cake (its a holiday innit) |
This would be my ideal scenario, please can I come on holiday with you?
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| Specialman wrote: |
Typically when it was just myself and the missus, we used to do first lift until last lift, baguette in the pocket and drinks on the slopes - first lift was totally dependant on the level of hangover we could manage, but we'd usually be skiing down after the lifts had closed.
These days taking the kids it's a bit different due to extra faffage, but I get grumpy if we're not on the lift by 10am, definitely feel like I'm wasting one of 6 days that I've paid a fortune for. Thankfully, my kids seem happy to rinse the day and stay out until things shut, I don't think we got back to the hotel at Christmas before 5pm, albeit usually after a quick apres drink.
We went with friends last Easter in ADH who were a lot more stop/start than us and we did a lot of heading back to the apartment to eat, which was nice in one way but definitely encouraged people to get a bit sleepy on the sofas and laid back, which meant time off the slopes - I'm like a coiled spring when we do any stopping, I just want to eat/drink and be back on the snow. I look at it as paying a ton of money so would prefer to know I've gotten maximum slope time (unless the weather has other things to say about it) |
Wow feels like I’m listening to myself!
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We like to miss the rush.
This season 10am to 3/4pm 44 out of a possible 46 days.
Not bad.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@nahdendee, lets be friends- this sounds ideal.
@robs1, We bought Milos this season - i cant really describe them but basically a handsfree communication thing with no mobile needed. Very helpful as we have had ‘disagreements’ about directions in the past. Good with kids too.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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First lift to last lift.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Usually the full day, but sometimes I just go for 1.5 to 2 hours of fast groomers in the morning on a weekday, sometimes even less.
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| Rje66 wrote: |
Someone above mentioned, how far v how long on the mountain,
I'm not really into numbers, but last trip we boarded 3.5 days and on strava we covered 250km. This obviously includes lift distances too, I've nothing to compare this too , so would this be a normal day out for most??? |
The problem with your questions is, this forum is disproportionally populated by a by people who are doing more than just 1 week a year!
For people who ski more than 1 week a year, especially for those who ski SEVERAL weeks a year, there’s not the urge to maximize each and every of those 6 days. Much more focus on the snow condition and/or terrain of interest. Or, just being out in the mountain regardless of distance covered. Moreover, some of those same people are skiing off piste.
On the other end of the spectrum are people who ski with their kids. It’s necessary to wait for the little ones, brake more often, or quit early because the little ones are tired.
So there’s not much of a “normal” day per se. Just a huge variety of hours and distances.
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Sun 16-03-25 22:46; edited 1 time in total
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You know it makes sense.
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Few weeks ago in 3V averaged 50km a day, that's the downs, not including the lifts. Is that a lot?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| abc wrote: |
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On the other end of the spectrum are people who ski with their kids. It’s necessary to wait for the little ones, brake more often, or quit early because the little ones are tired. |
The stage you describe lasted about 2 years with Jnr, then it became us getting tired out by him probably from the age of 9. At least one week a year he went into ski school to give us a chance to chill a bit more. Then he joined a race team so he went off on training camps - we’d go to the same place but would again have much more gentle days.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| robs12 wrote: |
| Few weeks ago in 3V averaged 50km a day, that's the downs, not including the lifts. Is that a lot? |
If you’re holiday skiing and wanting to make the most of your days, then I’d say that’s a high average for piste skiing.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| robs12 wrote: |
| Few weeks ago in 3V averaged 50km a day, that's the downs, not including the lifts. Is that a lot? |
Definitely respectable but not a lot per se.
50km in the 3Vs could be anything from 8-10,000m vertical depending on your average gradient but most likely 8-9k. Most punters would consider 8k vert in a day a big day out but a seasonaire wouldn't.
60-70km average and 10-12k vert would be a lot. A handful of plus 85km 14k vert days makes the difference.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| robs12 wrote: |
| Few weeks ago in 3V averaged 50km a day, that's the downs, not including the lifts. Is that a lot? |
Its more than the vast majority are doing on any day. But it wouldn't be considered huge days either. As said above 50km downhill probably averages out about 9000m vertical. At whistler they used to have certain challenges like ski Everest + Mariana trench in a day (around 20,000m vertical). Plenty of us did it but it was more just something to do once when off piste was too bad to actually ski good stuff. Prime example of lots vertical doesn't necessarily mean a great day.
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At Christmas (shorter days) for us 8k vert would be a big day and in April (longer) 10k.
With a low (cold be because of bad weather, taking it easy, injury/kit issues) 2k less.
I can't imagine how I could/would do more than 12k and it still be fun (for me/us).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Yesterday I did about 3 hours and 3000m. It was an all time top ten ski day, in terms of enjoyment.
3 descents of about 1000m vert, of which the first two were fresh tracks all the way on clean faces (no other tracks anywhere). The third we had to steer around other peoples tracks a bit.
There’s nowhere on Earth quite like Argentiere on a powder day.
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| Layne wrote: |
At Christmas (shorter days) for us 8k vert would be a big day and in April (longer) 10k.
I can't imagine how I could/would do more than 12k and it still be fun (for me/us). |
But that's the point - you're on holiday skiing 6-8 days at a time.
Looking at my ski tracks records, any time I've done more than 30 days in a season I've averaged over 10k/day including long lunches, poor vis days etc. 1 in 4 days is over 12k and 1 in 8 over 14k.
If I could ever be bothered to make first lift it would be more but I hardly ever go out before 9.30am.
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@Je suis un Skieur, not sure why that would be tbh.
I don't think my vert is dictated by my fitness. I don't stop that often and I don't stop because of tiredness specifically. Not saying it's not a factor of some kind/for some.
Other limiters for me are:
1) Skiing in a group. It doesn't particular matter the standard of the group. But if one person wants to adjust something we all have to wait, if one person needs the loo, we all have to wait. Then there is the decision making on where or what to ski. And so on. I have on a occasion, for short periods, skied solo or more often as a pair. And it inevitably speed things up.
2) Skiing off piste. As conditions allow we ski off piste as much as possible and with route finding, skiing one by one with spacing, etc. It's slower going but more pleasurable obv.
3) Lift system/busyness. Depending on when/where you go there are going to be restrictions because even in the best areas there are still some slow lifts and man times of the year there are wait times at lifts.
4) My wife. Technically she is a better skier than me and she can ski anything. But she likes to ski relatively slower. It's not like snails pace. But if I sked say a k she would be 200m back. And I would be 200m behind my teenage kids.
So if I skied on piste solo at a quiet time of year in a resort with a top notch lift system I am sure I could squeeze out 12, maybe 14k. But we are talking optimal everything.
Not sure why a seasonaire would ski more - I thought because they have more days on the mountain they would be less inclined to do a fuller days?
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My experience is there are a lot of people fooling themselves about how "hard" they ski. Which is fine, we all enjoy our winter holidays in different ways. I know VERY few people who ski from first to last lift that cover 10k vertical in a day. But it is entirely possible to do so and have a morning coffee break and a sit-down (normally multi-course) lunch if conditions are conducive. All that is needed is the ability to ski long descents without having to stop (or finding it tiring).
Frankly I discount entirely how hard people claim that they ski when they join our group, as it almost never matches reality. Those who say they want to take the first lift, ski to last lift, minimise coffee and lunch stops etc. invariably prove to be able to cover quite limited vertical. Conversely, those who claim to be into "relaxed" skiing and enquire about where we are going for lunch invariably leave us all for dust.
What is true is that if you have a high performance group who really do want to ski hard, you can cover very large verticals on piste.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
So if I skied on piste solo at a quiet time of year in a resort with a top notch lift system I am sure I could squeeze out 12, maybe 14k. But we are talking optimal everything.
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You can do way more without even getting close to optimising everything. Like I said we had the Everest + Mariana trench challenge at whistler (20,000m) which plenty of people managed in not even a full day. The record day for that season was 27,581m which was first to last lift, optimising everything by just lapping a single chair, and probably a little luck with no real lift stoppages.
But again, the question becomes why? More vertical doesn't necessary mean more enjoyment.
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Not sure why a seasonaire would ski more - I thought because they have more days on the mountain they would be less inclined to do a fuller days?
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I think it's true that seasonaires probably don't do many full days. However, most seasonaires tend to be able to do bigger days. Partly just due to having better ski fitness - from my experience showing people around kicking horse it was very rare to find a 1-2 week per year skier who could ski top to bottom (around 1200m) in a single go.
Also due to a lot loss faffing - the seasonaires likely has got their equipment dialled in, and even in groups they can just say meet at x chair and everyone knows how to get their without needing to stop and check maps. Also probably know where and when the potential bottlenecks are and how to avoid them.
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@Layne I think you are totally correct. Skiing in a group you cover way less terrain for all the reasons you mention.
I had a quick look at my Garmin data from December and found a compelling example since I skied alone in the morning and then joined up with a group of friends, of similar ski ability, in the afternoon. The difference is much larger than I expected.
Data: December, Zermatt, Same day, Piste skiing only, Distances/vertical does not include lifts, Time also excludes lifts but does include stops
Morning ski, solo; Elapsed time 2hr4mins, Distance 40km, 6.5k metres vertical descent
Afternoon ski, group; Elapsed time 2hr1min, Distance 23km, 4.1k metres vertical descent
So, the 'cost' of group skiing (with a group of similar level skiers) was a reduction of 41% in distance and 35% in vertical.
PS. Full disclosure, we did have a very good lunch before our afternoon ski ...
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FAQ
