 Poster: A snowHead
|
| boarder2020 wrote: |
The idea that anyone is independently finding all their touring zones without input from others/guidebooks/websites/apps is a bit unrealistic. Even more unrealistic to think they are truly finding completely unknown areas nobody skied before. I'm sure 99% of tourers don't even put in a single skin track each season!
|
Yep, and even without apps, the instant you put a set of tracks up/down a route, you're showing people your "secrets". Then there's Strava...
Add in a map and the ability to assess the combo of terrain, dangers, and your skills, gets you a long way.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
looks good, does it cover Norway @BobinCH, ?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| boarder2020 wrote: |
.....
I suspect you (like me and 99% of others) have over the years benefited by someone more familiar with an area passing on their knowledge of touring/freeride routes. It seems a bit selfish to then not pass some of it on - and I'm sure the reality is you have shown many friends areas/lines they were not previously familiar with.
The idea that anyone is independently finding all their touring zones without input from others/guidebooks/websites/apps is a bit unrealistic. Even more unrealistic to think they are truly finding completely unknown areas nobody skied before. I'm sure 99% of tourers don't even put in a single skin track each season!
what influenced by the fact most of my touring has been done in places pretty remote. Maybe if I was constantly touring in overcrowded areas of Europe I'd have a different view..... |
That is what I'm most proud of, especially the slack-country we do is that they are not recognised routes and I've spent considerable time in the Summer hiking potential routes to suss things out and over the seasons have found some very nice lines that no-one skis, as well as using the e-mtb to open up other routes with long approaches.
My paranoia is that one of these days UCPCA off-piste groups will offer slack-country and then all it takes is a couple of groups to ski things out.
Even this morning we kept scoring fresh tracks well away from groups, though a few Yanks hooked on to us and started following until I stopped and they stopped and then I told them to find their own lines, and they sort of understood where I was coming from, probably wondering why it took me so long to say something 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
@Weathercam, but you don't own the mountain. That group of yanks have just as much right to be there as you. I am sure you use plenty of preexisting skin tracks during the winter. Perhaps those guys would rather you didn't use their work to ski "their" zone.
It's happened to me. This year I put a track up from the saddle where everyone skis from up to a peak. A french group behind me decided to follow. Would I rather than didn't - yes, but I can't blame them and certainly wouldn't criticise them. A few days later I piggy backed off a skin track put up by a swiss guide to ski a zone his group had opened up the day before. That's just how backcountry skiing works in my experience. But again I haven't toured in Europe (and the more I hear the less inviting it sounds ), I'm used to people on the skin track being friendly and even helping each other out with suggestions of where to find the best snow!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@boarder2020, we weren't skinning they were just following us as they sussed we knew where we were going!
It's a shame they weren't following us when we do a descent off the back and then skin up, that would have fecked them
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| boarder2020 wrote: |
It would only take one person copying the route and then putting it online.
|
I already posted his Strava profile to the Oak Briancon group 
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
@boarder2020, like I say, I'm far from the only one who gets frustrated when people follow, as again you're showing your lack of experience, there's lift served off-piste and then there's lift served where you have to work (traversing/hiking) to get to lines that are hidden, so just when you're breaking trail cutting a traverse for 300m or so it's a tad galling to see the same people following you!
I'm out with a guide over the next couple of days and he is off the scale when it comes to things like this, so will be interesting to see where we end up, but it is ironic in that this season I've been showing his ex some of our stashes.
And check out my Strava from today and you'll see I do have a nice side
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Are you into surfing @Weathercam?
That "Locals" attitude is rife in the surfing community where visitors are often extremely unwelcome, and even subject to physical violence out back in the line up?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| boarder2020 wrote: |
The idea that anyone is independently finding all their touring zones without input from others/guidebooks/websites/apps is a bit unrealistic. Even more unrealistic to think they are truly finding completely unknown areas nobody skied before. I'm sure 99% of tourers don't even put in a single skin track each season!
|
Just need to pick up on this ...
i) What you highlight is that the majority of ski tourers are probably lacking in basic mountain skills (and imagination).
However learning some basic snow sense / map reading skills can still take you to some wonderful places off the beaten track
ii) Discovering something *new* for yourself is surely part of the excitement?
Even if many others have been there before me.
That discovery can come from a guide book, recommendation or personal exploration.
But it is very much part of any outdoor sport. I love finding a new ski run / bike route <etc>.
A definite part of the buzz.
iii) Certainly the alps are very well documented.
However there are still plenty corners where its not all spoon feed to you via an app or guide book.
Ironically the lesser known resorts can often be better the well known / fully documented hot spots like Cham or Verbier for fresh tracks.
iv) The internet is a great resource. But it does lead to inevitable herd mentality when someone posts some good photos.
v) Local-ism. One good thing about skiing is that the conditions change all the time.
What was good today might not be great tomorrow. So no point being too precious about it all.
The real skill is to be in the right place at the right time.
vi) I certainly have a few secret stashes that I am not posting on fat-map or strava.
Sue-me Those who want to find them will. Their discovery will be all the more rewarding for investing effort.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
To be clear @Weathercam I didn't mean to imply you are prone to violence!!
It's just that I've seen that "locals" attitude in surfing and it can go too far there...never seen it turn out like that on snow though
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
Was thinking as we've just bailed on La Grave for one reason and another, (hopefully tomorrow), I'd like to see @boarder2020, and an Oak group attempt to follow a route up there in bad weather, there's one thing having gpx routes etc, but you only have to be out 20m or so in bad viz and you could be in a whole world of pain, but no doubt @boarder2020, has the necessary mountain craft to handle all that La Grave can offer?
For well over 20 yrs I invested in guides for my one (x2) vacations a year and it just seems that people now are looking to get the same benefits from guides without paying for it. In the last 15 or so I've taught myself as per @Haggis_Trap, alludes to along with scoping routes out in the Summer.
Like I say I can think of more that one or two routes where people might have issues following a digital route, (we were looking at one yesterday from above) and or getting the timing totally wrong and ending up skiing shite snow.
Oh well suppose I better go up the hill and see what I can find
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
@Weathercam, you’re really missing the point. Not sure what is the relevance to « digital route »?
If your usual partners are not available the app allows you to hook up with a riding partner(s) of similar ability / fitness. Their profile and activity logbook is transparent. You can even private chat or group chat to have additional discussion on skills / equipment / weather etc
What’s so difficult to understand?
If you want a guide, you can request that too.
I don’t want a guide to ski routes in Verbier that I’ve skied many times but I want some company for sociability / safety.
What do you do when you want to go out and have no partners. Do you go alone? Would you not like a way to hook up with like minded skiers locally? Share some of your experience? Maybe learn something from others (heaven forbid  )?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
@BobinCH, yes I'd rather, and do ski alone, especially when touring with the dog, and only ski with friends that know what skiing is like with the dog, does Oak have a profile for skiing with a dog
Though obviously, our terrain is very mellow and not as severe as some of yours.
And re "digital" route I was alluding to the fact that both you and @boarder2020, seem to think that people could follow Strava routes etc if they don't know the sector, or have I got the wrong end of the stick there too ?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| Weathercam wrote: |
@BobinCH, yes I'd rather, and do ski alone, especially when touring with the dog, and only ski with friends that know what skiing is like with the dog, does Oak have a profile for skiing with a dog
Though obviously, our terrain is very mellow and not as severe as some of yours.
And re "digital" route I was alluding to the fact that both you and @boarder2020, seem to think that people could follow Strava routes etc if they don't know the sector, or have I got the wrong end of the stick there too ? |
Profile for the pooch - speed, stamina, running style and favourite treats… I like it 
I get your digital reference now. It’s pretty straightforward to follow a route via a gpx file on an iPhone or Garmin device. Of course you still need some experience / common sense eg don’t go out in avi 5 conditions during a whiteout 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| Quote: |
I'd like to see @boarder2020, and an Oak group attempt to follow a route up there in bad weather
|
If you go through the old activities on oak people write a report of how it was giving conditions and info for those looking to do it. I've seen at least a few that say they abandoned the original plan due to poor conditions.
| Quote: |
that people now are looking to get the same benefits from guides without paying for it.
|
Well Oak offers the app to use guides, so it's not either or.
For many popular routes a guide is simply not necessarily if you have basic skills and a bit of sensibility. Without a guide I am missing out in some ways - a guide will probably be able to find better snow, provide local knowledge, and just general ski knowledge etc. On the other hand I like doing stuff without a guide holding my hand, gives more of a sense of adventure and a certain satisfaction knowing you "did it yourselves". Also can't ignore the cost, it's simply not feasible for most to pay for a guide each day.
Most of us know the pros of using a guide and have a good idea when it would be necessary. I will use guides as I see fit - which is frankly not too often as I'm not doing anything crazy. If I had to ski Mallory couloir next week I'd probably take 2 I certainly don't think oak users are expecting a guide experience.
Have you and your mates really never been out on a tour none of you have done before without a guide?!
| Quote: |
seem to think that people could follow Strava routes etc
|
I could absolutely take your Strava, plot the same route on skimomap and repeat almost the exact same tour. If your point is blindly following a Strava route could get me in trouble - I'd agree but that's where a little knowledge, sensibility, and common sense comes in to modify the route as necessary.
But I think our point regarding Strava was why would someone who is apparently so secretive publish their routes that clearly show what zones you are in for anyone looking for somewhere to ski. It would be easier to just not upload them or hide the map. But maybe your want for Strava kudos takes priority over keeping them a secret
I do think there is an over reliance on some using gpx routes to blindly follow. I'd argue it's worse for things like hiking - with ski touring most people are doing some planning. I must admit I do like to have a gpx file as a backup. But we are spoilt for planning these days with all the photos, mapping, guidebooks etc. available. It's easier than ever to plan a route. People used to manage with much less and weren't getting lost or skiing off cliffs all the time.
| Quote: |
If your usual partners are not available the app allows you to hook up with a riding partner(s) of similar ability / fitness. Their profile and activity logbook is transparent. You can even private chat or group chat to have additional discussion on skills / equipment / weather etc
What’s so difficult to understand?
|
Sums it up nicely. Those that aren't local or new to the area may not even have "usual partners".
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
not sure my wife will be happy 
