I would rather give my money to a European owned ski resort than to resorts owned by a US corporation (vail resorts), and for the other resorts on that epic pass, I'd rather the lift company gets it all and not have most of it exported to USA.
Whilst I don't like mixing world politics and my passion for skiing, I would prioritise Ukraine, Gaza, Canada, Greenland, Panama and having a stable 'west' over savings a few quid and sending it to the USA...
Yep I'd rather spend directly than support this type of business / which benefits a stock price. http://youtube.com/v/0bfD4NiiMfo
Interesting video. I'd anticipated a rant, but it was much better and more nuanced than I expected.
The Epic model creates winners and losers. Skiing in NA was financially on its knees before Epic/Ikon arrived, so the old model wasn't sustainable either. So long as independent resorts continue to exist, options are available for most of us, if not for locals.
It's not all bad, but it's definitely not all good. It's certainly much harder for a UK-based family to ski in a Vail-owned resort than it used to be.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Bob wrote:
skibum88 wrote:
I would rather give my money to a European owned ski resort than to resorts owned by a US corporation (vail resorts), and for the other resorts on that epic pass, I'd rather the lift company gets it all and not have most of it exported to USA.
Whilst I don't like mixing world politics and my passion for skiing, I would prioritise Ukraine, Gaza, Canada, Greenland, Panama and having a stable 'west' over savings a few quid and sending it to the USA...
Yep I'd rather spend directly than support this type of business / which benefits a stock price. http://youtube.com/v/0bfD4NiiMfo
Got around to watching the video today. As they point out - those looking to ski lots of days may actually be better off with the multiresort passes. Certainly the case that all the skiers I know in n America are very happy with epic and iKON for this reason.
Regarding resorts being too busy. I would like to see some stats rather than just videos of big queues. The worst queues I ever saw were at whistler (pre-epic); weekend, huge powder day, entire alpine closed so everyone on lower mountain, and kicking horse; huge powder day, Alberta family weekend. Find the right day and events and you can probably make a similarly horrific queue video from most resorts - but it's not actually reflective of the norm and not unique to epic/iKON.
Regarding lack of affordable housing, it's not a new problem. Every other pique magazine had an article about people renting out their bathtubs, sleeping in cars, and lack of affordable housing before Epic took over at Whistler. Arguably the place where locals have been priced out most is Jackson Hole where house prices went up astronomically - and that's a mountain owned by locals! I don't really see how epic is to blame for this, it's a general ski resort thing.
I still don't understand why people get worked up about Vail lessons prices. It's like me pointing out Rolex prices are unaffordable so how will anyone buy a watch. If you want to learn to ski don't go to the most expensive resort in usa, there are lots of more affordable options - including the smaller epic resorts! Also Vail is a business and there is clearly a demand for the prices they charge so why not?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
boarder2020 wrote:
I still don't understand why people get worked up about Vail lessons prices. It's like me pointing out Rolex prices are unaffordable so how will anyone buy a watch. If you want to learn to ski don't go to the most expensive resort in usa, there are lots of more affordable options - including the smaller epic resorts! Also Vail is a business and there is clearly a demand for the prices they charge so why not?
The complain about lesson price comes more pointedly from Europeans (ok, I only heard it from Brits). Part of the reason is lesson in the Alps are considerably cheaper on average, and for quite a long time. That's been the case pre-Epic, and it cut across all resorts. With the recent price increase at Vail, the difference is even more stark.
To make matters worse, instructors in the US are quite poorly paid compared to their counterpart teaching in the Alps.
This isn't a Vail specific problem. But Vail had the nerve to increase lesson prices lately. So yeah, it's a sore spot for visitors to the mega resorts.
For those of us living close to snow, we still have pretty good options. But for people living away from snow, it's more of a "should we bother to bring our kids up skiing at all" kind of questions.
it's more of a "should we bother to bring our kids up skiing at all" kind of questions.
I just spent a week at Park City with Aussies who all had Epic passes and loved the model because they were all both time and cash rich BUT, the consensus was that Vail are sacrificing the long term because they are eliminating the next generation of snow sliders. Is this short term-ism because they don’t expect a next generation due to global warming or is it just the usual need to raise share price for the Execs compensation? .
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
This is a good point. It equates to what boxing did years ago when they decided to put every big, or even big-ish, fight on PPV. It maximized short term profits, but a generation later I don't think anyone is into it any more. The younger generation was not exposed to it, and when they grew up, became disinterested.
However, many people, at least in the States, learn to ski, and to love it, at smaller and more local hills. These are largely not in the EPIC/IKON orbit, and prices have remained reasonable. Maybe they are counting on this feeder system continuing. My base is NY, and basically no one learned to ski at a resort presently on one of these two big passes.
There are things EPIC and IKON can do to gin up newbies. Offer free lessons plus discounted tickets one a one off per person, making the lessons mandatory before the lift ticket will activate, is one example.
However, many people, at least in the States, learn to ski, and to love it, at smaller and more local hills. These are largely not in the EPIC/IKON orbit, and prices have remained reasonable. Maybe they are counting on this feeder system continuing. My base is NY, and basically no one learned to ski at a resort presently on one of these two big passes.
This is my point. Most of the N Americans I know learned to ski at smaller local resorts. Those that are beginners choosing to ski at vail likely have the money that expensive lessons aren't a concern.
Also I don't think expensive lessons is necessarily an epic thing, more just a Vail thing. Even then lessons at other top resorts not on epic are not that much cheaper than Vail. The smaller epic resorts have lessons for around $100. For comparison a quick look suggests beginner 2 hour group lessons in the snow dome are £79.
Quote:
To make matters worse, instructors in the US are quite poorly paid compared to their counterpart teaching in the Alps.
"Average Vail Resorts Ski Instructor hourly pay in the United States is approximately $20.87, which is 7% above the national average." It's also above the median hourly salary. So they seem to be paying the going rate (if they weren't I'm sure their instructors would move else where!). Is it "fair'? Probably not, but neither is the waitresses making a couple of dollars and hour relying on tips, the Chinese kid working for peanuts putting your iPhone together, teachers, nurses etc.
Also, while there is certainly things to dislike about Epic, people are assuming that the alternative is great community based owners. While there are some examples of that, if you ask most locals skiing independent resorts I'm sure many would be critical of their non epic owners.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
dozofoz wrote:
Is this short term-ism because they don’t expect a next generation due to global warming or is it just the usual need to raise share price for the Execs compensation? .
Unfortunately I think short term thinking it's sadly common place across many businesses. Executives at the top will be incentivised heavily. To the point that a shorter term rise in share price will be enough to make them multi millionaires who never need to work again.
Another downside of the Vail / iKON passes is the effective duopoly. An astonishingly large number of US skier days (~45%) now owned by just two massive corporations.
The real soul of skiing slowly being eroded away by their expansionist aspiration. Hopefully Europe manages to resist the North American trend. However I am certain they will have their eyes on Verbier, St Anton, Cham or Tignes.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Quote:
An astonishingly large number of US skier days (~45%) now owned by just two massive corporations.
Firstly you need to check how many resorts are actually owned by epic and iKON. Not all of them on the passes are - for example Jackson hole is not owned by alterra but in iKON pass.
Secondly I'm not sure that stat tells us anything. You would need to know what percentage share they got as a group before the multiresort pass. I.e. let's say the 10 biggest resorts in Europe get 50% of the market now, they join together to create a multiresort pass and then get 55%, has it actually changed the skiing landscape much?
FWIW I'm actually surprised, I thought the percentage of skis days on epic/iKON passes would be a lot higher.
Quote:
The real soul of skiing slowly being eroded away by their expansionist aspiration.
Meh. Go to any euro resort and it's prime over consumerism with fancy restaurants and multiple shops selling fancy gear. It's all about profit and money in most places, where for many visitors the skiing is just a small part of the holiday experience. You could make a small shortlist of places where skiing is a bigger priority e.g. shames, Scotland, la grave, but these are not places the vast majority want to go over their nice resorts!
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Yes I don't think anyone going to a Euro megaresort is really doing anything different just that the business model is different in Europe- more diversified ownership of the resorts, F&B, ski schools, accommodation etc. Even some (lite) competition in Europe to keep things honestish (though things like the St Anton ski hire cartel are well known).
And by no means is skiing the "all" of most people taking a holiday. Just look at all the anciliaries people have as requirements when choosing a holiday.
I've massively utilised megapasses and definitely "win" vs their business model in the US (as I generally avoid buying their F&B, accommodation and anciliaries). But I still fail to see other than in market share how they win in Europe using the same tool, given the different business models.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
abc wrote:
The complain about lesson price comes more pointedly from Europeans (ok, I only heard it from Brits). Part of the reason is lesson in the Alps are considerably cheaper on average, and for quite a long time. That's been the case pre-Epic, and it cut across all resorts. With the recent price increase at Vail, the difference is even more stark.
Let's not forget that the same Americans who complain about safety on the slopes due to underskilled/overconfident users are often unbovvered about the usurious lesson pricing that makes it more likely that there will continue to be a confidence/skill surplus.
I was struck on a recent week in Italy by how many lessons were being conducted and the general mutual respect around those lessons e.g. instructors were at pains to leave a very clear channel outside their lesson on pistes. Still the odd clown (mainly Dutch or Belgian teens it seemed ) who'd speed past on a steepish red rather than do turns then eat it at the first pile of softer snow much to my satisfaction.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Quote:
Let's not forget that the same Americans who complain about safety on the slopes due to underskilled/overconfident users are often unbovvered about the usurious lesson pricing that makes it more likely that there will continue to be a confidence/skill surplus.
It seems like this is just as much an issue in Europe where lessons are cheaper.
I'd actually argue it's less of an issue in N America resorts for a couple of reasons;
- due to set up of resorts there is a bigger percentage of people skiing offpiste.
- much better "policing". It's common to have ski patrol enforcing slow (safe) skiing areas on home runs and particularly busy areas.
Which is also another problem. Comparing costs directly is not really apples to apples. Things like patrollers policing slopes, free mountain tours, controlled off piste etc. is the norm for n America resorts but not so common in Europe. These things cost money - of course if you get perceived value out of them or not is an entirely different question.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Quote:
due to set up of resorts there is a bigger percentage of people skiing offpiste.
"bigger percentage" is an understatement. On a normal day, probably 20-30% of skiers are skiing off the groomers. On a powder day, up to 50% are off the groomers! (never mind resorts don't groom much after a powder dump). Whilst in Europe, what, 5% ski off-piste?
At least one snowhead I can remember had constantly advocate: "less grooming, safer skiing!"
On ungroomed surfaces, it's hard to ski as fast. Less speed, less collision.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@abc,
5% ski off-piste where have you skiied in Europe? Plenty go off-piste, but it may not feel that way given the size of many ski areas, and the high percentage of those ski areas that are classed as off-piste.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Kenzie, I think it's probably a fair guestimate when you consider the places which don't really have off piste skiing e.g many Italian resorts, the drought days when offpiste is utter dogshite and if you exclude the little bits to the side and between runs when kids classes get taken.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@Kenzie, on my trips, only once in Wengen and once in St Moritz that we had significant new snow. I'd say I see of the people skiing, 10-15% were off-piste. In Wengen, they were almost all led by instructors doing lessons. In St. Moritz, they were mostly free skiing, either in between pistes or in itineraries. With a few groups I could see off the back side of the resort.
When there were no new snow, I only once saw a bunch of people skiing off the back of the resort somewhere in 3-valley. I was there for an entire week with no new snow.
Of course, people go entirely away from resorts with guides. But given these usually require spotting a vehicle to get back, I wonder how many do it, and how those numbers compare with people skiing on piste everyday!
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Would be interesting to see some stats. Personally I'd have guessed about 10% in euro go off piste. But obviously it will vary hugely by resort - I'm sure somewhere like Chamonix it's much higher for example.
You only have to look at skis in gondola line ups in Europe Vs USA to see a much bigger percentage of piste skis in Europe Vs fat/all mountain/powder skis in n America. In n America instructors are taking early intermediates off piste in places. The set up of resorts certainly makes it much more accessible. I'd argue the attitude to skiing is just quite different in general, more "serious" skiers than "holidaymakers" wanting a nice trip with some skiing on the side. The difference between snowheads and tgr might be a general indication.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Dave of the Marmottes, I included the kids taking lesson on the edge of piste in my estimate of 5%. I could very well be wrong.
@Kenzie, we also need to take into account the Alps doesn't get fresh snow as frequently as in north America too. How often do people go off-piste, even with guides, when it's 10 days since the previous storm?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@abc, the guides I know in Chamonix are definitely working 10 days after a snowfall. And finding tasty slopes.
@under a new name, but as said above Chamonix is not representative of Europe skiing. It also wouldn't be high on my list if looking for untracked powder.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
The problem with this ski pass model is that accommodation, ski school, rental and food and beverage is owned/controlled by the same company. They can take your money in advance for purchasing a season pass but then wait to see sticker price when you have to pay $35 for puck burger, $18 for beer and $100 daily rental, on top of $400 for a night in hotel ... This works great for "locals" (people living within "reasonable" driving distance from those resorts (4-5 hrs. would be "reasonable" in NA).
Even with one of those multi resort passes, day of skiing in NA is more than double than in Europe, for comparable (if possible to compare ?) resorts, ie. Arlberg/Vail.
But then most people in NA make much more $ than people in Europe so it is easier to absorb these seemingly high prices. For people that have to sit on a plane to go skiing - trick is to make money in the USofA and ski in Europe
And now with addition of multiple resorts in Europe to Epic/IKON passes this is becoming very real option for many pass holders as witnessed this year while skiing in the Dolomites and meeting many NA visitors using their IKON passes.
That is good for me right now but increased number of visitors from NA will drive prices up (many here won't be happy about that) and once MTN realizes this, I suspect they would try to limit days in Europe and keep NA skiers in NA. To do that they would have to lower the price of their other "offerings" (ski school, accommodation, rental, food ...)
This works great for "locals" (people living within "reasonable" driving distance from those resorts (4-5 hrs. would be "reasonable" in NA).
But that is most skiers in NA. The average family in Texas are not looking at ski holidays, they have hobbies/interests more suited to their local geography.
Quote:
Even with one of those multi resort passes, day of skiing in NA is more than double than in Europe, for comparable (if possible to compare ?) resorts, ie. Arlberg/Vail.
Cost per day is completely dependent on how many days you do. I think it's around 14 days of skiing in the big Euro resorts equate to cost of epic pass. I think this year's Tignes season pass was around $100 less than next year's epic pass. The epic pass it's much better value for a local.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Quote:
Hopefully Europe manages to resist the North American trend. However I am certain they will have their eyes on Verbier, St Anton, Cham or Tignes
What's the connection between Epic and the 3 Vallees? I'm assuming it involves no ownership by Epic, so how is it included in their pass? Presumably, similar could happen with Verbier, St Anton, Chamonix or Tignes without Epic or Ikon taking over
After all it is free
After all it is free
boarder2020 wrote:
Quote:
This works great for "locals" (people living within "reasonable" driving distance from those resorts (4-5 hrs. would be "reasonable" in NA).
But that is most skiers in NA. The average family in Texas are not looking at ski holidays, they have hobbies/interests more suited to their local geography.
There are more, many more skier in Midwest than you think.
Quote:
Even with one of those multi resort passes, day of skiing in NA is more than double than in Europe, for comparable (if possible to compare ?) resorts, ie. Arlberg/Vail.
Cost per day is completely dependent on how many days you do. I think it's around 14 days of skiing in the big Euro resorts equate to cost of epic pass. I think this year's Tignes season pass was around $100 less than next year's epic pass. The epic pass it's much better value for a local.
Again, read whole post ... pass in itself is OK, obviously works for you and many others. Cost of skiing in Europe is about half of what it is in NA (lift ticket, ski school, hotel, rental, food and accommodation, ).
MTN is publicly traded company and they release their reports quarterly. Divide number of revenue from lift tickets by skier days and you will see how much it cost to ski NA.
For 2024 ... Surprise ... $69/day !!!
For somebody like you it might be $20/day but for that Texas family that you mentioned in your post - it is a bit more than that.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Quote:
For somebody like you it might be $20/day but for that Texas family that you mentioned in your post - it is a bit more than that.
The point is families in Texas aren't looking to go skiing. So it's kind of irrelevant what it costs them. You might as well make the argument north African countries can't afford to ski in Europe (Tunis is much closer to Chamonix than Houston is to Denver!). For Brits who work on weekly holidays the ski holiday is somewhat normalised. It's not necessarily true for the rest of the world.
There are far too many variables to directly compare Europe and na costs. As said above wages are much higher out there and the product is not the same.
Lake Louise currently has it's spring pass on sale. Unlimited skiing for the same price as a week in Tignes
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
I would think that there are many more Texans skiing than Tunisians ... laughable !!!
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
boarder2020 wrote:
The point is families in Texas aren't looking to go skiing. So it's kind of irrelevant what it costs them.
You might be surprised. There’re a lot of Texans who ski! I mean, a lot!
One thing people tend to forget is how mobile Americans are. I lived in Florida for 2 years. Guess what, I flew to Denver to ski for a week because I was still in the habit of skiing! So the many “families in Texas” may have just moved there from Minnesota! (My cousin actually) And they may as well move back north again to Washington state in 3 years. So they’re likely to want to continue skiing! The total cost to them is actually quite relevant.
You were right in one of your points. Living within 5 hours of skiing actually describe quite a lot of Americans!
But your overall argument is questionable. On the one hand, a fairly large number of Americans can learn to ski in their local hills because they live near one at one point of their life (e.g. for me to attend university in Michigan). And a lot of them will continue to ski, at least for a while, even when they move AWAY from the snow. But now, they need to pay for lodging, food and their kid’s ski lessons! Moreover, the very large number of dedicated skiers in the Midwest (and to a lessor degree, in the northeast) would want to travel to the Rockies for the far superior snow condition.
So the lodging and travel cost is very relevant to a large percentage of American skiers.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
boarder2020 wrote:
Meh. Go to any euro resort and it's prime over consumerism with fancy restaurants and multiple shops selling fancy gear.
I can't think of any euro resort where the lift operator has monopoly on mountain restaurants, ski school and accomodation
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Haggis_Trap wrote:
boarder2020 wrote:
Meh. Go to any euro resort and it's prime over consumerism with fancy restaurants and multiple shops selling fancy gear.
I can't think of any euro resort where the lift operator has monopoly on mountain restaurants, ski school and accomodation
Different context.
It does point to skiing in Europe is a holiday more than sport for the majority of people
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
In my sample size of 1 (Crans Montana) my friends who own there tell me that this year they have seen the Vail resorts owned restaurants (all but 2) reduce menu variety, focus on fast food and increase prices. And no investment in lift infrastructure.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@BobinCH, Possibly a major attraction for them was that there were so many resort owned F&B outlets. I wouldn't expect Vail to easily stump for new lift infrastructure - they are very slow at spending on upgrade projects even on home turf and masters of the money hold on lift ops.
I am somewhat ambivalent about on mountain catering as I don't like a big lunch when skiing. But I do intuitively feel if you are going to get a cafeteria style offering you shouldn't have to pay top price. Of course Austrian huts (and I'm sure elsewhere) often get away with this by having the vats of soup and wuerstls behind a kitchen door so things can have the appearance of made to order. Vail food offerings in the US are usually pretty grim like $25 for an Epic burger or chicken tenders and fries. A handful of pocket meat/nuts and a granola bar is usually an acceptable substitute.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
abc wrote:
It does point to skiing in Europe is a holiday more than sport for the majority of people
Try telling that to an Austrian.... Ski racing bigger than premier league football and very much in the national DNA
The culturally interesting thing about European Alps is that the valleys have been inhabited by people for hundreds of years. Alpinism and skiing as outdoor recreation was literally invented in the Alps
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Dave of the Marmottes,
Hopefully the more diverse ownership in the likes of Verbier and Zermatt keeps them at bay. I understand why people like the Epic Pass but I don’t hear anyone saying the customer experience has improved in the resorts they’ve taken over.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
BobinCH wrote:
I understand why people like the Epic Pass but I don’t hear anyone saying the customer experience has improved in the resorts they’ve taken over.
The same people who like the Epic pass is the kind of people who ski a lot and don’t stop for lunch! So the “customer experience” is somewhat irrelevant.
(Yes, the lift lines are hideous. But those are usually on holiday weekends, i.e. affecting disproportionally “holiday skiers”. )
I suspect the mixture of skiers in the Alps is not that different from the North American skiers. It’s just the Brits as a sub-sample of European skiers are more holiday oriented than their Austrian and French counterpart which make up the other end of the spectrum.
Also, the concept of a wide-area, combined lift pass was invented in the Alps, when different local lift operators join together to form large resorts such as the Dolomites. And the like of Magic Pass is not all that dissimilar from the skier’s point of view.
(Though the fact that behind the Epic pass is a single corporation is indeed a distinctly American concept)
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
BobinCH wrote:
@Dave of the Marmottes,
Hopefully the more diverse ownership in the likes of Verbier and Zermatt keeps them at bay. I understand why people like the Epic Pass but I don’t hear anyone saying the customer experience has improved in the resorts they’ve taken over.
Vail are very keen on the tagline "experience of a lifetime" and bragging about customer experience. But it's all a bit of a dog and pony show for the benefit of market analysts, more neophyte staff (who can be conned into getting paid a sub-living wage and living 4 to a room because they are so lucky) and aspirant consumers. Anyone who has actual experience of their "product" and that of the market as a whole can see where corners are cut and make their own judgements about price/value equations. Places like WB or Vail or wherever are still great to ski (if you can bypass or turn a blind eye to many frustrations) but not as good as 20 years ago (and still more 30 years ago). So if you ask whether a $300+ day ticket can possibly be worth it the answer must always be "hell no" (unless maybe you luck into a midweek sleeper pow day that wasn't in the forecast so the city crowds don't show). Is it worth a $1000 season pass if you can get 20 days out of it - probably still.
I understand why people like the Epic Pass but I don’t hear anyone saying the customer experience has improved in the resorts they’ve taken over.
The same people who like the Epic pass is the kind of people who ski a lot and don’t stop for lunch! So the “customer experience” is somewhat irrelevant.
(Yes, the lift lines are hideous. But those are usually on holiday weekends, i.e. affecting disproportionally “holiday skiers”. )
Big queues, unhappy staff, poor restaurants, price hikes, no infrastructure investment. What’s not to like…
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
BobinCH wrote:
abc wrote:
BobinCH wrote:
I understand why people like the Epic Pass but I don’t hear anyone saying the customer experience has improved in the resorts they’ve taken over.
The same people who like the Epic pass is the kind of people who ski a lot and don’t stop for lunch! So the “customer experience” is somewhat irrelevant.
(Yes, the lift lines are hideous. But those are usually on holiday weekends, i.e. affecting disproportionally “holiday skiers”. )
Big queues, unhappy staff, poor restaurants, price hikes, no infrastructure investment. What’s not to like…
The snow!
After all it is free
After all it is free
mountainaddict wrote:
Joking aside, it's absolutely shocking - and sad - that snowsport lovers who only want to ski/board for say a week a year, are effectively being excluded from visiting the mega resorts of North America
Errr.... they aren't!
A 6 day pass for Keystone or Crested Butte will cost about a tenner more next season than you would pay for 6 days this season in Tignes - or £110 more if you want to ski Vail, Beaver Creek and Breckenridge as well.
You just need to buy your skipasses before November .
Alternatively the full Epic pass costs only about £800, so for that you could ski a week in the USA (or a season...) plus a week in the Dolomites, 3 Valleys, the Arlberg and Verbier; plus unlimited skiing in Andermatt and Crans Montana.
As Jim Royle would say, "Excluded from the USA megaresorts, my ar5e!"
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Bergmeister wrote:
Alternatively the full Epic pass costs only about £800, so for that you could ski a week in the USA (or a season...) plus a week in the Dolomites, 3 Valleys, the Arlberg and Verbier; plus unlimited skiing in Andermatt and Crans Montana.
Hence why I started this thread (despite the derailing to rehash other threads!), the core proposition feels like there's enough European coverage that it's now becoming a viable option for Europe-centric skiers like most on here, as long as you can flex where you go.
I should be able to get about £230 of value from the 3V option, and £200 or so from the Verbier coverage, which makes it £370 for the rest. At that level, what I'm debating is whether it's worth me buying it and gambling that I'll have at least 5 days in the US as well.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@snowdave, gambling is probably the right word. I’ve had an ikon pass every year they’ve been sold, and I either crush it or lose my shirt depending on lots of things, many of which are not within my control like the weather. I use it in Europe as well.
So for me, it has been a gamble worth taking overall. For you, I’d suggest you give it a go for the coming season and then sit back and see how it went. Plus, making the investment now sort of “forces“ you to plan more trips, not a bad thing.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
.
where have you skiied in Europe? Plenty go off-piste, but it may not feel that way given the size of many ski areas, and the high percentage of those ski areas that are classed as off-piste.
So the “customer experience” is somewhat irrelevant.
.
