| How much is a reasonable mark-up on transfer seats to a snowHeads bash? |
| 0 - 5% they are ski buddies/future ski buddies |
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88% |
[ 110 ] |
| 5- 20% to cover admin time and hassle |
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8% |
[ 10 ] |
| 20 - 40% to make a little for your drinks fund |
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2% |
[ 3 ] |
| As much as possible - its a question of demand and supply!! |
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1% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Voted : 125 |
| Total Votes : 125 |
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 Poster: A snowHead
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[quote]
I'm guessing that you DIDN'T ask for payment upfront for all the work/help you offered
No, I certainly didn't. I was in a position to help, so did. And thankfully, when we had to do the digging out of a snowdrift, my very strong son, to whom I'd given snowchain lessons that very afternoon, was around to help. the guy had chains, but had had no idea how to put them on, so started up the hill without them, presumably in some sort of panic. I was very nice to him, under the circumstances. No recriminations, and when we got back to my apartment organised a hot drink and a comfy bed on a camping mattress! More Christian than he deserved (because it's not about deserts..... I don't think totting up who owes what to whom all the time is the best recipe for living happily). If some people go through life thinking about what they can gain out of every situation, that's for them. It's not what KSH and motyl were doing, helping to organise the transfers. But yes, some people just take such generosity for granted. But in my philosophy of life that's their loss. I am trying to develop a philosophy of radical gratitude. But can definitely be a bitch, too.... 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Radical gratitude, not generosity. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
I don't think totting up who owes what to whom all the time is the best recipe for living happily
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But fair's fair. We use an app to calculate who owes what to whom. Its no bother and gets sorted out at the end of the week. Why should someone else pay for something that I should be paying for? I'd rather things were straight than feel beholden and having to buy drinks etc for the person.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Ray Zorro wrote: |
This relates to airport to resort transfers at a snowHeads bash
I was recently offered the final place in an 8-seater privately organised transfer taxi at a cost of 2x the actual cost per seat.
The organiser was therefore wanting free travel for himself and a £150 contribution to his holiday costs from his fellow bash attendees.
I offered a lower price which was rejected.
I then decided against taking the seat.
This exchange surprised me - as I didn't think that making so much profit out of your fellow bash attendees was in the ethos of a snowHeads bash? When I've organised bash transfers in the past I've done them pretty much at cost.
It makes me wonder - was I just naive and out of touch?
So I ask the question - when you travel on a private transfer to a bash - what would you consider to be an acceptable profit level on a seat? |
You snooze, you looze
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Mon 24-02-25 21:57; edited 1 time in total
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Total cost divided by the number of passengers.
Anything else is grade A shithousery and completely against the ethos of snowHeads
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| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| Quote: |
I don't think totting up who owes what to whom all the time is the best recipe for living happily
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But fair's fair. We use an app to calculate who owes what to whom. Its no bother and gets sorted out at the end of the week. Why should someone else pay for something that I should be paying for? I'd rather things were straight than feel beholden and having to buy drinks etc for the person. |
Totting up on a shared apartment/ room over a week is surely fine - always works out OK for meals/breakfast stuff over the EOSB. Receipts in the pot, knock off personal items. Then no need for passive aggression re the bakery run etc.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| Quote: |
I don't think totting up who owes what to whom all the time is the best recipe for living happily
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But fair's fair. We use an app to calculate who owes what to whom. Its no bother and gets sorted out at the end of the week. Why should someone else pay for something that I should be paying for? I'd rather things were straight than feel beholden and having to buy drinks etc for the person. |
Having a holiday kitty is indeed dead simple and usually leads to zero issues. But that's normally for people who are friends in the first place. Or a bunch of people catering in an apartment, who just deal with the issue by throwing receipts into a pot (not the cooking pot). I think that’s fine and wouldn't interfere with anyone's aspirations to become a guru.
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@Dave of the Marmottes, sorry, cross post
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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It should just all work out if people all want to pull their weight. It's not rocket science, and there are apps. But if they don't, I'm not getting my knickers in a twist about it.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
Total cost divided by the number of passengers.
Anything else is grade A shithousery and completely against the ethos of snowHeads |
Nutshell 
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| Origen wrote: |
| Radical gratitude, not generosity. |
Sorry ... I could try and blame autocorrect but I think I'll do the decent thing and confess my mistake !
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You know it makes sense.
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| Origen wrote: |
| It should just all work out if people all want to pull their weight. It's not rocket science, and there are apps. But if they don't, I'm not getting my knickers in a twist about it. |
Me neither, life is too short. However, anyone who takes the p*** isn't getting an invite to join the group again.
I regularly ski with a group of friends who sometimes enjoy a very good lunch. As we all have a horror of the "make the poor waiter go round the entire table figuring out who had what and taking payment individually" approach (plus the total is never sufficient since everyone forgets the table water/bread/whatever) we have a simple formula;
Count = All Adults Who Drank Wine * 1 + Kids * 0.5 + Non-Wine-Drinkers * 0.5
Bill, plus generous tip (by Swiss standards to be clear) as we're all boisterous and demanding (as most large groups are) is then divided by count and everyone pays up for number in their sub-party.
Never explicitly stated, but seriously inferred, is that IF you choose the special main at twice the price or the super rare 20yo wine you chip in extra to the pot.
This formula has worked impeccably in both allowing us all to ski, and lunch, together harmoniously for a long long time whilst also allowing us to, very quickly, weed out those who would exploit this approach. We never get cross if someone takes advantage; but they never get to ski/lunch with us again.
So, to get back to the point (at long f****** last you might say) what I'm trying to say is that the universal rule applies; "Don't be a dick"
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I think it boils down to expectation.
We all PAY admin to get our spot, with roof over head and ski pass. The rest were “expected” to be shared and/or help each other.
With that expectation, a profit is indeed out of line.
I think had the “organizer” of the transfer just reserve himself/herself a free seat on the van for the trouble of arranging it, it might have passed without scrutiny. But making a profit on top of a free seat? That’s definitely “profiteering” and entirely against the spirit of snowhead bashes.
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Poster: A snowHead
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That said, these days gratitude is a little short in supply.
Last week, I saw a young girl with TWO giant suitcase trying to get down an escalator. I tried to think fast where the handicaps elevator is so she can use that instead. In the mean time, a middle age men step up and asked if she needed a hand…
No answer. 
Instead, she first handed her coffee cup to me and said “hold this” (mind you, not “hold this please” ). And as soon as I got her coffee, she started dragging her 2 giant suitcases down the escalator. Thank god it was a short one and nobody was below her, because she promptly lost grip of one of them. The man ran past her to grab the suitcase before it tumbling the whole way down the escalator. 
Once the two suitcases and the girl and her coffee were safely at the bottom of the escalator, she just extended her two hands, one for the coffee and the other for the suitcase. Not a single thanks, not even for the man who rescued her suitcase!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The people who forced @KSH to run round chasing them to pay for their transfers rather than seeking her out to pay their share were, in my book, graceless and ungrateful shits. Every bit as culpable as the guy who made a profit.
@abc and @KSH have suggested that gratitude is in short supply. That was my experience too.
However, a wise man once said that it is not happy people who are grateful, but grateful people who are happy.
Ommmmmmmmm
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Origen wrote: |
However, a wise man once said that it is not happy people who are grateful, but grateful people who are happy.
Ommmmmmmmm |
Definitely guru material
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Origen, yes, I like that.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Ray Zorro,
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To take another angle on it. Maybe the perp accidently fell into the greedy bar steward trap.
Say the transfer was going to cost 250 and he assumed it would be him plus 4 others so 50 each. Then more get on board. First one he's 50 up so figures best retaining as contingency. Then another couple so he's 150 up. Maybe he intended rebating everyone 15 or so when it was all done but now he's had to cancel his trip so is trying to recoup some losses.
Would be good to hear his side.
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If we are doing Marx quotations the "The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made"
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Ray Zorro,
Are you certain the organiser is only paying £200 for the transfer? ie. have you seen the invoice/booking confirmation?
Is it possible that they booked the larger vehicle @450 Euros to accommodate extra baggage etc? That would explain the £50 pp.
£200 for large minibus does sound very cheap to me. And I couldn't imagine getting a private transfer for less than £50 pp.
Lots of people jumping to unsavoury conclusions here, but are we 100% certain of the facts?
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
To take another angle on it. Maybe the perp accidently fell into the greedy bar steward trap.
Say the transfer was going to cost 250 and he assumed it would be him plus 4 others so 50 each. Then more get on board. First one he's 50 up so figures best retaining as contingency. Then another couple so he's 150 up. Maybe he intended rebating everyone 15 or so when it was all done but now he's had to cancel his trip so is trying to recoup some losses.
Would be good to hear his side. |
If its who I suspect, then I think they've organised transfers for the previous 2 years. In which case they had a good idea what the takeup would be.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@adithorp, yep
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
To take another angle on it. Maybe the perp accidently fell into the greedy bar steward trap.
Say the transfer was going to cost 250 and he assumed it would be him plus 4 others so 50 each. Then more get on board. First one he's 50 up so figures best retaining as contingency. Then another couple so he's 150 up. Maybe he intended rebating everyone 15 or so when it was all done but now he's had to cancel his trip so is trying to recoup some losses.
Would be good to hear his side. |
Absolutely. And maybe he/she has had experience with people pulling out and not covering costs etc etc so a set fee is just the way to organise things simply. As someone else has said, this is a bunch of randoms on the internet. With friends I tend to do most of the organising and we just split the cost on hire cars/apartments etc. Making a profit is never considered, down to the penny. With randoms on the internet who you have almost no comeback with I can understand if getting your fingers burnt is a fairly frequent occurrence so an element of profit one year or on one of several busses you may be organising the same year covers losses in a different year or on a different bus.
It's easy to criticise when we do not know all the details.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Legend. wrote: |
| It's easy to criticise when we do not know all the details. |
True enough, and there are gaps to be filled here. But equally I don't think anyone has any obligation to defend themselves here, as
| Quote: |
| As someone else has said, this is a bunch of randoms on the internet. |
I am an innocent abroad. Perhaps I was just lucky.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| CathS wrote: |
@Ray Zorro,
...
Lots of people jumping to unsavoury conclusions here, but are we 100% certain of the facts? |
Yes - 100% certain but I do agree that there are some unsavoury comments being made.
I really only wanted to canvas opinions on what others viewed an acceptable mark-up
I added the background to provide context but didn't intend it to become a witch-hunt on the individual.
I'm feeling rather guilty now - I don't know him but I can imagine that (this incident apart) he is probably a decent guy who would be a pleasure to ski with.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Ray Zorro wrote: |
| I don't know him but I can imagine that (this incident apart) he is probably a decent guy who would be a pleasure to ski with. |
Unless he charges a guiding fee too
It will be interesting to see whether he eats humble pie and returns the profit to the passengers? Otherwise he's going to get some heat on your bash!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Don't think he's going anymore? Is probably playing the tables in Monaco instead with the wild riches gained from unsuspecting snowheads.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Ray Zorro wrote: |
I really only wanted to canvas opinions on what others viewed an acceptable mark-up
I added the background to provide context but didn't intend it to become a witch-hunt on the individual. |
A bit of naivety on your part I would say. As soon as I read the OP I knew where it would go.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| bobalexander1983 wrote: |
While I'm sure Admin doesn't benefit to any extent from any of the multitude of bashes he organises every season, I don't think many would grudge him a free or discounted lift pass or similar whether that was a perk of doing the legwork on the bash or came at a cost of 3-4 euros per attendee given the discounts he secures and stellar organisation. |
1. why do you think he doesn't benefit? (I have no idea)
2. why shouldn't he for all the work he puts in?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| davidof wrote: |
| bobalexander1983 wrote: |
While I'm sure Admin doesn't benefit to any extent from any of the multitude of bashes he organises every season, I don't think many would grudge him a free or discounted lift pass or similar whether that was a perk of doing the legwork on the bash or came at a cost of 3-4 euros per attendee given the discounts he secures and stellar organisation. |
1. why do you think he doesn't benefit? (I have no idea)
2. why shouldn't he for all the work he puts in? |
Bloody hell I would hope it was a hell of a lot more than that. It must be a full time job at certain times of the year!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| davidof wrote: |
| bobalexander1983 wrote: |
While I'm sure Admin doesn't benefit to any extent from any of the multitude of bashes he organises every season, I don't think many would grudge him a free or discounted lift pass or similar whether that was a perk of doing the legwork on the bash or came at a cost of 3-4 euros per attendee given the discounts he secures and stellar organisation. |
1. why do you think he doesn't benefit? (I have no idea)
2. why shouldn't he for all the work he puts in? |
Perhaps I should rephrase that to doesn't benefit to an extent anyone would question as more than reasonable for the time and effort put in. Like you I don't know, but if I was going on a ski holiday where someone else was organising it all for 50+ attendees and it turned out they'd copped a free or heavily subsidized holiday as a result of their time and efforts I certainly wouldn't be grumbling at my 10-15 contribution towards that (at most) if it was factored in, or most likely a direct offer from the accommodation provider that one in 20/25/50 goes free. Most certainly I was not indicating in any way that I felt he shouldn't benefit.
I was merely trying to indicate the difference between the work admin (or any other large group organiser) does in terms of time spent, deposits covered in the interim etc and someone who's booked a glorified taxi as in original post.
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| Quote: |
but now he's had to cancel his trip so is trying to recoup some losses.
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I suspect that has a lot to do with the “profiteering” urge.
He’s facing a lose. It’s only human to want to recoup some of it wherever one could. Doesn’t endear him to fellow bashers in the future.
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£50 for Geneva to Val T transfer sounds OK to me. Altibus would probably cost more and that would involve change in Moutiers.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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A few thoughts from someone with no skin in the game
1. 250 for a minibus transfer to VT sounds low to me. A local (not airport) taxi booked from GVA to Les Contamines (a fair bit quicker/shorter) is 250. I would expect VT to be >300 and more for a minibus. Is the OP absolutely sure on the numbers? As others have said I'd be pretty happy to get a transfer for 50.
2. If 250 is correct then the organiser may have priced it based on 5 people, collected money and be unenthusiastic about unpicking that now he has additional paasengers? Perhaps he plans on chucking the extra in a drinks kitty? Who knows. Personally I'd be reluctant to leap to the conclusion of profiteering.
3. I think it is very unwise to have started this thread. Only likely to cause friction about not very much. If I was the OP I'd ask to get it removed.
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| Blackblade wrote: |
| Origen wrote: |
However, a wise man once said that it is not happy people who are grateful, but grateful people who are happy.
Ommmmmmmmm |
Definitely guru material |
Actually there is quite a lot of psychological research behind that (gratitude enhances happiness). One CBT exercise to enhance happiness is to show gratitude to someone you never thanked properly. It makes the thanker more happy!
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FAQ
I think people were just glad to get to where they wanted to be - as much as I was for it to all work! There seemed to have been a mix-up about numbers for one of the return taxis (not in the spreadsheet which I'd sent 
) and the driver turned up along with his wife, who then had to arrange herself on top of the ski bags until she was dropped off at Pont St Martin 
