| How much is a reasonable mark-up on transfer seats to a snowHeads bash? |
| 0 - 5% they are ski buddies/future ski buddies |
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88% |
[ 110 ] |
| 5- 20% to cover admin time and hassle |
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8% |
[ 10 ] |
| 20 - 40% to make a little for your drinks fund |
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2% |
[ 3 ] |
| As much as possible - its a question of demand and supply!! |
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1% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Voted : 125 |
| Total Votes : 125 |
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 Poster: A snowHead
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I wouldn't look to make a profit if organising, but I also wouldn't quibble about spending £50 on a transfer that someone else had sorted out for me either!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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When I used to lead Ski Club holidays it was part of the whole equation that our costs were included in the price that the members paid for the trip overall, and we used to have to collect monies to buy all the lift passes together and get the 'free' ones for us to ensure the books balanced.
It's not quite the same equation, of course, as we were not organising the trip itself, but we were actually doing a lot of work organising groups, leading on the mountain, booking restaurants, organising social stuff etc. and of course we were not being paid for it.
So it would be my assumption that someone who is putting in a lot of time and effort to organise these trips would be entitled to get something out of it as well, even if it doesn't make them a profit as such. Indeed, I would expect it and that any attendees would be fully aware of how it works and happy with whatever such arrangements.
But the airport transfers for group members who booked them themselves, no, that's just ridiculous. If it were all pre-arranged by a single organiser then I'd expect a level of balancing out to be included, but it sounds like this is just opportunistic on the part of some individual(s) trying to make a quick buck. Not cool.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| kat.ryb wrote: |
| I wouldn't look to make a profit if organising, but I also wouldn't quibble about spending £50 on a transfer that someone else had sorted out for me either! |
Indeed, there is no obligation, you can do your own thing.
| JayRo wrote: |
| So what’s the difference? |
The amount of work involved. I've been reading this thread with interest, and when I was accepted into someone else's 8 seater for the BBWUW I paid my share of 6 one way and 5 the other.
I organised transfers to Gressoney a couple of years running, and the second time I'm not sure I would have done it without the very kind assistance of KSH who made the not insignificant upfront payment and then managed receipts.
There were over 30 people on the second trip, arriving/departing at different times, some wanting to travel together, some only wanting one way because of other arrangements. I kept tabs on numbers as at some point it was cheaper to have a coach, but I also couldn't assume the 8-person vehicles could accommodate 8 ski bags so distribution was important. There were last minute changes and requests for transfers. My spreadsheet was very colourful but I was able to meet everyone's needs, barring one individual who was arriving much later than everyone else. Perhaps I took too much responsibility for it all but I found the stress such that I'm not keen to repeat it, but it was significantly cheaper than the shuttle (60 euros return trip in 2022), even after I deducted my own transfer cost, for which I feel no guilt. I should mention that KSH, made of much nobler stuff, insisted on paying her way.
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| kat.ryb wrote: |
| I wouldn't look to make a profit if organising, but I also wouldn't quibble about spending £50 on a transfer that someone else had sorted out for me either! |
I would if it meant that 7 people paid £50 each and 1 person got a free trip plus £150 in his pocket.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Mon 24-02-25 15:18; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| JayRo wrote: |
| MorningGory wrote: |
@JayRo, there's a lot more work involved in organising a bash than a minibus  |
Yeah, & the potential benefits to the organizer are correspondingly higher. Indeed, given the opportunity cost of spending so much time organizing bashes, it would be very reasonable for those who do so not only to participate for free but also to get paid for their time.
| Layne wrote: |
| JayRo wrote: |
| Does anyone else find it weird that people seem generally happy to subsidize the organizers of a Bash (& get a good deal for themselves in the process) but not someone who gets them a transfer for far less than they could otherwise have got it? |
Err, no. |
So what’s the difference? |
I'm confused by the two statements above. First one seems to acknowledge the point many others made that the two don't compare and the second asking me to repeat the same explanation.
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Between peers for mutual benefit profiteering hardly seems in the bash spirit. What next £100 to stick around and help a party member who gets injured on the slope, after all people need compensating for their "lost" holiday time?
Clearly there is a difference in what dadmin does in putting together bashes ( and sometimes taking a hit on unsold places) vs much smaller scale effort of an attendee.
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@motyl, are the lovely Fulvia and Paola not doing their thing any more? Yes, it was a pain in the neck herding snowHeads, but dealing with the Company was both straightforward, for the most part, and cheap. Why was this excellent precedent abandoned? For want of a volunteer? That's sad, particularly since - of course! - we would have been able to supply lovely pro forma spreadsheets. I am mystified. And it's really distasteful if all this has arisen out of either or both of an unwillingness to help the whole group (is it larger than it used to be?) and a desire to exploit an opportunity to make a fast buck. As somebody has said, not cool.
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| Layne wrote: |
I'm confused by the two statements above. First one seems to acknowledge the point many others made that the two don't compare and the second asking me to repeat the same explanation. |
No, I'm saying firstly that they do compare, in the sense that you can compare them by saying that one is much larger than the other, and secondly that that difference roughly corresponds to the (broadly proportional) difference in the reward for the organizer: the one who organizes the transfer gets a free/subsidized transfer & maybe some spending money while the one who organizes a holiday gets a free/subsidized holiday & maybe enough to support them to keep organizing affordable & popular holidays.
But reading other posts it may be that I've missed the point, and that what's not comparable is the size of the group, and that the key variable is not transfer vs week's skiing but 8 people vs 30 (or 80, or 140) people.
Last edited by After all it is free  on Mon 24-02-25 16:55; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| JayRo wrote: |
...But reading other posts it may be that I've missed the point,... |
Bingo!
I can compare a mouse with an elephant and they have things in common but they're still not comparable 
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I guess it depends - if your concept of "organising" a transfer is NOT simply spending a few minutes online getting quotes, choosing one of them and subsequently messaging the participants with cost and meet-up details. Is there more to it than that? Seems to have worked for me in the past 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@KSH, 
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I've recently booked a van for a transfer. I did it all online and I doubt it took me 10 minutes. Should I charge the others £200 for my time ?
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You know it makes sense.
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@Yoda, mine and motyl's work was for nearly the entire group, so the numbers were bigger and the debt collection more of a ballache. But I get your point.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@KSH, yes, I should have been clearer that I am talking about small groups, as per the OP.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Any taxi or minibus transfer I’ve done in recent years has been with payment made to the driver when you get dropped off. Absolutely scandalous if it’s true that this chancer has looked to pocket £150 and a free ride out of it! Proper scumbag behaviour.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Seems you’re in some weird middle ground between booking with a travel company where you pay the going rate, company benefits from economies of scale, and a holiday organised with some mates where typically you apportion the actual costs.
You assumed it was mates sharing a transfer, the transfer booker assumed he’s taking bookings for his own private transfer company.
How do the others on the transfer feel about this? Happy they’re getting the transfer for the price they paid, or unhappy they’re paying 1/7 of the cost with the 8th person (the booker) getting a free trip.
Would the booker have honoured the cost if there were less people, covering the difference themselves? Doubt it. It would have become £60 (or whatever).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| GlasgowCyclops wrote: |
You take the cost of the transfer and divide by the number of people.
0%extra added on.
Even divide by the 7 and if someone joins late, rather than working out a few euros you simply say get everyone a beer when we arrive.
Making a profit? No f’ing way. |
except maybe a beer as a token of appreciation.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| kat.ryb wrote: |
| I wouldn't look to make a profit if organising, but I also wouldn't quibble about spending £50 on a transfer that someone else had sorted out for me either! |
This is how I feel. Personally if a transfer or part of the trip I was organizing at cost price made an unexpected surplus it would go into the drinks kitty/towards the guides' tip/be returned to the others on the trip. But while that's what I'd expect and prefer others to do, I'm not overly worried if they do something else, especially if that means everyone else is still getting a reasonable trip. Certainly, if someone is taking €150 plus a free trip by getting me a transfer for €50 that would otherwise have cost significantly more than that, I'm not about to start complaining that they didn't charge me €35 instead.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I think the fundamental difference is whether it's professional or between friends. Professionals, even if also friends, need to be fairly paid as it's their livelihood. Friends organising things for other friends shouldn't be seeking to make a profit out of it. Friends trade in favours and give and take.
I am good friends with my ski instructor and we socialise in a wider group together. However, I have always insisted on paying the going rate for her time when she's instructing me because it's her business. I appreciate that a Bash is not wholly a 'business' in the normal way but it is a service provided by someone who I don't know personally (I know a lot of you do) and which clearly takes a lot of time and effort. As such, it's only right and fair that there is a return for all of that work as, otherwise, the organiser won't be able to take the time to do it repeatedly.
Someone organising a transfer for some friends and then taking advantage of someone else to make a buck just feels grubby.
I organise a trip for a group most years and, one year, it reached 18 people so was quite a bit of work to manage. However, I wouldn't dream of trying to make a profit from it; it's not my job, I do it because I like spending time with my friends and they reciprocate with other invites.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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This is the type of person who either dodges rounds or insist you move onto spoons when it's theirs.
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Isn’t this all now a bit awkward assuming the organizer and other 6 are also SnowHeads going on this bash / reading this forum? Should we expect the other side of the story “Anatoly Boukreev style” from the wronged organizer???
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@BobinCH, yes I did wonder whether it was wise to create this thread at all, at least in advance of the Bash
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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On the one hand we have someone apparently making a profit out of their internet mates, which isn't something I'd do. I'm skiing with mates at the weekend, I bought the seats on my avios, and I don't bother trying to "recharge" the underlying cost. Free flight for them.
On the other hand, if the price is attractive (which £50 for a transfer seems to be) and good value for me, I wouldn't go round trying to work out the exact underlying costs, or undertaking internet character assassination.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Gored, yes an appreciative beer goes without saying. 
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Having organized a number of taxis to and from the PreBB (Venice to Alleghe and return) I can say unequivocally it's been done at cost - total divided by number of passengers.
Personally, the idea of making a profit out of fellow snowHeads simply for sending a few emails is rather odious.
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You know it makes sense.
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| BobinCH wrote: |
| Isn’t this all now a bit awkward assuming the organizer and other 6 are also SnowHeads going on this bash / reading this forum? Should we expect the other side of the story “Anatoly Boukreev style” from the wronged organizer??? |
I sent him a link to this thread. I would be interested to hear his justification.
He has said he is no longer able to go on the bash and I think quite a large number of bash attendees don't read the forum anyway, so there won't be any issues 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Hi- I said 20-40%- thinking that this was being orgainised by whoever was doing all the admin for the whle bash, not jus the transfer. If was sorting a transfer only for 8 then I'd not add anything. It would be nive if people said 'thanks' but I'd not even rely on that I'm afraid.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Ray Zorro wrote: |
I sent him a link to this thread. I would be interested to hear his justification.
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Looks like he's voted.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| adithorp wrote: |
| When I've sorted hired cars for bashes I've just split the cost equally. I might have rounded up (or down) a few pence to make the numbers easier and folks may have offered me a beer for my efforts.... |
Pretty much what I've done, split the cost between the number of occupants.
That said, it is usually a bit of a ball ache and hassle, so I end up questioning whether I want to bother again
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Hmm. As someone who twice gave lifts (from France to the Dolomites - a very long way) to bash participants I have no patience with this quibbling. One of these occasions entailed digging someone out of a snowdrift at 2130 (after I'd told him NOT to drive up the hill to us without snow chains and he'd lied about it - long story. But can you blame me for declining his offer to share the driving? ) And on another occasion having had to drive over a closed pass, which would probably have annulled my insurance, then roping in willing SHs muscle in digging my car out of the snow which was continuing to burying everything (thanks chaps) and, having one of the only cars there, equipped with a big shovel and snowchains, helping to transport others around so we could find some skiing (all lifts in Arabba being closed for days by too much snow), I have NO patience with this quibbling. So what if someone made a "profit" out of a transfer he'd organised, having provided good value for all? The work which motyl, and KSH, sound to have put in certainly merited at least free drinks for the week.
From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs. Somebody quite famous said that. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Origen, I tend to think if people are happy with the price then they're happy, but there's also something which feels a bit opportunistic about making 200 quid on a 200 quid transfer (if those are the correct numbers). Not sure I'd have started a thread about it though, either you're happy with the price and take the deal, or you aren't and you don't....but it is interesting to see different views on it.
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@SnoodyMcFlude, I just find it difficult to understand people making all these micro-accountancy calculations, or getting het up one way or another. It was not very difficult for me to give people lifts (though the silly bug calling us out to dig him out of a snowdrift in a blizzard was a ball-ache). Why do people have to keep balance sheets and worry about what other people are getting out of it all? It's no way to live.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Origen wrote: |
| @SnoodyMcFlude, I just find it difficult to understand people making all these micro-accountancy calculations, or getting het up one way or another. It was not very difficult for me to give people lifts (though the silly bug calling us out to dig him out of a snowdrift in a blizzard was a ball-ache). Why do people have to keep balance sheets and worry about what other people are getting out of it all? It's no way to live. |
Equally, one of the biggest things wrong in the world is people constantly trying to rip others off. That's no way to live.
If organising a coach and filling it, then getting a free transfer out of it is probably fine.
If organising an 8 seater minibus transfer, and it soulnd like the organiser is trying to profiteer at other's expense. That's wrong. The others on the transfer are equally keeping the organisers costs down too.
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To be honest, people didn't seem particularly grateful, but that's probably because I'm so bitchy (as well as being helpful). I'm not sure how motyl, for whom absolutely nothing was too much trouble, was treated. She's a saint, but I'm not sure she was treated like one. These are a bunch of randoms off the internet, after all, one can't expect too much!
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FAQ
:Sounds like they aren't able to use it. Generally people would try and recoup their expenses in that case (or at least some of them) but taking a profit on it 
