 Poster: A snowHead
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Not children on this occasion, the same cliff.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/02/19/british-skier-falls-death-in-alps/
“A 23-year-old British skier has died after reportedly falling from a cliff in the French Alps.
The man, who has not been named, fell to his death as he returned from an après-ski night out in the resort of Avoriaz, near the Swiss border, on Sunday night.
It is feared that he died after getting lost as he attempted to ski down the mountain alone, according to the Sun.
The man’s body was found on Monday morning after his friends raised the alarm when he did not return to their accommodation.
“The deceased is an English national who is thought to have been skiing on Sunday evening,” a local police spokesman told the newspaper. “His family have been informed.”
A source added that police believe he may have taken a wrong turn and took his skis off before falling to his death.
The man is reported to have been partying at the La Folie Douce in Avoriaz before his death.
An inquiry into his death has been opened by local authorities.
A spokesman for the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office said: “We are supporting the family of a British man who died in France and are in contact with the local authorities.”
Other skiers have died in Avoriaz. In 2018, a 13-year-old boy died after falling from the cliff. His brother, 10, survived the fall”.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Terribly tragic. Skiing in the dark while fuelled with alcohol is always dangerous combination.
I’m trying to figure out the location on this. Was he trying to ski the pistes back down towards Prodains? Or was he trying to go down towards Super Morzine?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I think Baron is the short drag from nowhere just off the top of Zore chair? If so then to get to the cliffs you’d have to cross the main road too from memory. Either way, still a tragedy.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Edit: Thread split made post invalid.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Thu 20-02-25 17:52; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Snow&skifan wrote: |
Not children on this occasion, the same cliff.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/02/19/british-skier-falls-death-in-alps/
“A 23-year-old British skier has died after reportedly falling from a cliff in the French Alps.
The man, who has not been named, fell to his death as he returned from an après-ski night out in the resort of Avoriaz, near the Swiss border, on Sunday night.
It is feared that he died after getting lost as he attempted to ski down the mountain alone, according to the Sun.
The man’s body was found on Monday morning after his friends raised the alarm when he did not return to their accommodation.
“The deceased is an English national who is thought to have been skiing on Sunday evening,” a local police spokesman told the newspaper. “His family have been informed.”
A source added that police believe he may have taken a wrong turn and took his skis off before falling to his death.
The man is reported to have been partying at the La Folie Douce in Avoriaz before his death.
An inquiry into his death has been opened by local authorities.
A spokesman for the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office said: “We are supporting the family of a British man who died in France and are in contact with the local authorities.”
Other skiers have died in Avoriaz. In 2018, a 13-year-old boy died after falling from the cliff. His brother, 10, survived the fall”. |
I know that threads can be merged, but is it also possible to split them? @admin
Just my personal opinion, but feel lilke this accident should have its own thread, with a link in it to the previous thread, rather than rekindling the previous one.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@GuyrillaMonsoon, +1
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Thanks to whoever split the thread. (Glosterwolf's post got away.)
This tragedy seems to exhibit an unusually large number of Darwin's Law components. What a terrible waste of a life.
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Yes, "tragedy" is the right word - a tragic hero is the author of his own downfall! Not at all the same thing as a well equipped, experienced, climber or sailor who encounters terrible weather which wasn't forecast. I think I'd feel quite different if someone I loved died in those different circumstances.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I think holidaymakers and seasonnaires are always going to die where there is a combination of lots of alcohol, aloneness, cliffs and rivers involved. It's sad but somewhat inevitable - mountains aren't Disney land.
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@KSH, +1
Personally, I find it very hard to find sympathy for such victims.
Anyone who tries to solo ski an unknown, difficult run home in such a condition deserves whatever befalls them.
They could just as easily have fallen on the slope, gone to sleep and frozen to death.
The venue should be held more accountable and be made to police their customers better. (I understand that at least 1 Follie provides transport, albeit more like a cattle truck??)
Failing that, then the authorities should intervene. Anyone incapable of standing upright but trying to put on skis should have their lift pass suspended for 24 hours.
Admittedly, we used to have a meal and a few drinks on the mountain for the BB, but I don't think anyone actually ever got near that condition. If they had then I'm pretty sure someone might have intervened, or at least kept an eye on them.
Also, the Piste patrol were aware, run back was an easy blue, with less inebriated people sweeping up any stragglers*, not a difficult red with sheer cliffs as an added complication.
Plus, everyone was encouraged to take a head torch specifically for that ski home. (plus after dark return from the Plan Boe  )
*The only problems I saw was tired and/or stiff legs due to sitting in ski boots.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@brianatab,
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Personally, I find it very hard to find sympathy for such victims.
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It must be simply terrible for their families, though. A bit like the effect of a suicide, perhaps?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
A bit like the effect of a suicide, perhaps?
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Very different, I'd say, except in the sense that it would have a huge impact. I only have close experience of one suicide and I was at peace with it, knowing that somebody of sound mind had made the right, and brave, decision for them. But it's why I now campaign for assisted dying!
Someone getting pissed and falling down a cliff....... you'd just be so despairing and angry at the senselessness of it.
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@Origen, your view is itself based on a highly biased view of suicide. Some people might view suicide as a terrible and unnecessary waste, as well as a selfish and hurtful act (or any one or more of those things). It is the latter, non-binary argument I was tentatively suggesting.
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You know it makes sense.
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@KSH, I wouldn't put it in the same category as a suicide.
Not even in the same category as a death in a motoring accident
More in the category of mountaineering, rock climbing or other "dangerous" sporting activity deaths.
Or even falling off a cliff whilst taking a selfie (how many of them every year?)
Tragic for the families nevertheless, who have my sympathy.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| brianatab wrote: |
@KSH
More in the category of mountaineering, rock climbing or other "dangerous" sporting activity deaths.
Or even falling off a cliff whilst taking a selfie (how many of them every year?
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That way of thinking about it puts "getting pissed in ski resorts" in the category of being a hobby that people intentionally take up, that has risks such as falling off cliffs. There is a certain logic in that.
Another way of thinking about this would be it being equivalent of death by accidental overdose. In that when taking mind altering drugs there is a tipping point that is hard to judge, where you lose control of judgement etc. Sometimes you get away with it, sometimes you don't.
Either way it is a tragic accident (albeit where the actions of the deceased made that accident more likely but not inevitable) where it is easy to feel sympathy for the deceased and the people they have left behind.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Some people might view suicide as a terrible and unnecessary waste
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Indeed - but I think it's worth redressing the imbalance which would ALWAYS view it in such a light.
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a selfish and hurtful act
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But also, perhaps, selfish to blame somebody for taking what for them might have seemed the only way out of their suffering?
But getting pissed and falling off a cliff is just so totally idiotic and thoughtless that putting it in the same category as any sort of suicide seems wrong to me. Also - @brianatab - not like a rock climbing or other "dangerous sport" accident. Taking part in dangerous sport is by no means always an idiotic and thoughtless risk (though of course, it might be).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Origen wrote: |
| Taking part in dangerous sport is by no means always an idiotic and thoughtless risk (though of course, it might be). |
Agree - And nor is having a drink in a ski resort and idiotic and thoughtless risk.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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This is a pointless and potentially hurtful debate. Sorry to have kicked it off.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I'm pretty disappointed by the victim blaming in this thread. Well done to all of you who have never done anything silly, your families must be so proud.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@leggyblonde,
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Well done to all of you who have never done anything silly
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Possibly not quite that simple?
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@leggyblonde, +1. I think we should take a step back and think of this man's family who may even post on here. How would we feel if it was our own family member who had died in such awful circumstances?
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@Hells Bells, trouble is that, once so much information has already been published in the report linked in the original post, it's difficult to shut the door on comment. Of course I agree with your sentiment, and that's why I regret my later contribution.
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Where were his friends? Or whoever he was with?
How very, very sad that a 23yr old made one decision that ultimately cost him his life. There but for the grace of god…
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| KSH wrote: |
Thanks to whoever split the thread. (Glosterwolf's post got away.)
This tragedy seems to exhibit an unusually large number of Darwin's Law components. What a terrible waste of a life. |
I was hoping that by asking for it to be split that the old one might be left to remain (effectively) in the archive.
Unfortunately, as not all of the posts added to the original thread seem to have been moved here, there's still some discussion regarding the tragic event that involved two children seven years ago going on, both in this thread and especially in that one.
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I agree with those who have called out the victim blaming here. It is uncaring, unedifying and unpleasant to pass judgement following this sad death.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I think everyone has expressed enormous sympathy for the people who have lost a friend or a loved one. Debate about attitudes to death - and any mention at all of suicide - can be "hurtful" but that doesn't mean the discussion shouldn't be had.
If I had lost someone close in an accident in a ski resort I hope I'd have the sense and self-compassion not to be reading ski forums.
As for "victim-blaming", if I'd loved this guy I'd have been blaming him like mad. Would probably need a lot of help and support to get over my anger.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
This is a pointless and potentially hurtful debate
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Bump
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| Origen wrote: |
| I think everyone has expressed enormous sympathy for the people who have lost a friend or a loved one. Debate about attitudes to death - and any mention at all of suicide - can be "hurtful" but that doesn't mean the discussion shouldn't be had. If I had lost someone close in an accident in a ski resort I hope I'd have the sense and self-compassion not to be reading ski forums. As for "victim-blaming", if I'd loved this guy I'd have been blaming him like mad. Would probably need a lot of help and support to get over my anger. |
I'm with all of that.
If people are uncomfortable with stuff like this, then I fully respect their rights not to join a conversation about it.
I don't respect their rights to stop the rest of us talking about these things.
"victim blaming" is usually used more like "contributory negligence", as a way to deflect responsibility from the perpetrator.
No one here is doing that: the victim and the perp are the same person.
I think those using that argument are using an emotive phrase inappropriately.
In any accident the person who makes the mistake and becomes the victim is obviously responsible for what happened. There's no argument over who is to blame, unless you're suggesting that the victim had a spiked drink or something, which you're not.
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You know it makes sense.
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Some skier was killed a few years ago leaving the Folie in Val d'Isere after dark.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I did not imply we shouldn't discuss, add our condolences, but should be careful about expressing too strong (and possibly unfounded) opinions.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@phil_w, Some of the comments are definitely unpleasant. I called that out. What I did not do is express any "right" to "stop the rest of us talking about these things". And neither did anyone else.
I don't respect your right to stop me, or anyone else, calling out unpleasant and uncaring comments either.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| brianatab wrote: |
@KSH, +1
Personally, I find it very hard to find sympathy for such victims.
Anyone who tries to solo ski an unknown, difficult run home in such a condition deserves whatever befalls them.
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Well that's nice!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Let’s just say a lot of the youngsters who did stupid things in their ignorant youth which unfortunately led to their young life being cut short “deserves” that untimely end? 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@rungsp, As I also said, they could just as easily fallen on the edge of the piste, gone to sleep and frozen to death. Not nice either, but a cold hard fact.
People are responsible for themselves. If they choose to get out of their skins and have a fatal accident, (could just as easily walk under a bus on a Friday night at home) then they suffer the consequences.
It may be hard for relatives and friends, but that's life, and no sympathy from me for the victim.
(Probably not as hard on the family as a Father not getting home because he was killed by a drunk driver)
Aiui, The new (post Covid) rules in the Dolomites is that everyone, including staff, not only have to be off the premises, but also the pistes before dusk, when the Bashers start.
Enforcing similar throughout all ski areas might upset a few die hards not getting a "last drink", but may prevent a few unnecessary deaths.
As would making the proprietors shoulder some responsibility for their customer's safety.
e.g taking their skis off them, charging for a taxi ride home, and making them come back on foot the following day to collect.
Not dissimilar to a Publican confiscating someones car keys.
Alternatively, have a police presence* (paid for by the premises) who confiscate skis, and cancel their lift pass for 24 hours.
*There are laws regarding excessive drinking and skiing in most areas.
Having said that, there is absolutely nothing to prevent some drunken idiot deciding to take a short cut off piste through trees, or off a cliff, even before dark.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I thought that in France the pistes were closed at around 17:00 and piste side bars had to close before then? Not familiar with Avoriaz (it will have changed since 1990!) so maybe the bar is in town but near pistes?
In Austria the pistes are closed between 18:00 to 08:00 with lots of signs to that effect, anyone using them between those hours is going to get a minimum of a long lecture from the piste patrol or police. Clearly there are a few well known exceptions eg St Anton but there the run back from the Krazy Kangaruh, Mooserwirt etc is short and only just above the village (even so there have been sad accidents). No piste bashers on this small area until 21:00. I have noticed this year that one of the restaurants at the mid station with a sunny terrace has signs up "Terrace / bar closed at 16:00", "last run at 16:30" assume that is enforced too.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
"victim blaming" is usually used more like "contributory negligence", as a way to deflect responsibility from the perpetrator.
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Exactly. Like saying that a scantily clad girl who got raped was "asking for it".
I do feel that some drunks could justifiably be thrown into the cells (or out of A & E). But there must be a limit beyond which society should not be expected take on responsibility to save people from themselves, as in some of @brianatab's suggestions about confiscating skeys etc,
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There is a mix of emotions here. I think it’s obvious that everyone feels for the family left behind with the best of intentions.
When it comes to the deceased, my reaction lies some way between “blame the proprietors for continuing to sell them drink” to “I have less that zero respect for anyone that puts the rescue services into danger because of their folly…. People mountain climbing in flip flops… I’m looking at you” to “it was just a rogue accident”
No doubt time will tell.
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There's a bit of confusion from some people here. You should be aware that the Folies bar is actually in the village of Avoriaz. Yes, it's also on the piste, and there are pistes that continue down from it through or past the village, but this is not somewhere that could be in any way controlled as if it were half way up the mountain.
I'm struggling to work out where this accident actually happened, but for sure it was not between the bar and the village; nor could anyone ski down from there to Morzine or even Prodains after the lifts are shut. Tragic misadventure to be sure, but to find a cliff from there, and then to find a way to said cliff without any barriers blocking it, would take a real effort.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| brianatab wrote: |
@KSH, +1
Personally, I find it very hard to find sympathy for such victims.
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You are a horrible individual.
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Actually I used to climb some mountains in flip flops: Tevas. It's almost certain that I rescued folk wearing those. On the other hand I have never experienced anyone rescued because they were wearing Tevas. I'm not suggesting that's always the best choice, but sometimes it is.
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| You are a horrible individual. |
ad hominem - as good as you saying you've lost the argument. I'm sorry for your loss, but rudeness won't help.
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FAQ
