 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| rachelharrisonsmith wrote: |
@Mollerski, No, you seem to think that our children want to be ski instructors. Mine doesn’t. It’s a nice way to do a gap year - nothing more. My son could have chosen to volunteer somewhere or do a scuba diving course, but he didn’t. He chose to spend some time in the mountains. The ski instructor course route enables him to earn a bit of cash whilst he’s on his working holiday visa.
What is it that I don’t want to hear? |
What you - allegedly - don't want to hear is nothing to do with your question, or that of the OP. It is either that some think becoming a ski instructor is a bad idea, or that trying to become one via one of these courses is a bad idea, or that these courses do not represent value for money, or that there are better ways of acquiring life skills, or that there are better ways of spending a gap year, or that for a project to 'break even' the child should earn or at least be capable of earning at least as much as the parent has shelled out. All of which are perfectly good points, but for which you can hardly be blamed for deciding to ignore.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Mollerski, well in my individual situation, it was a great experience and money well spent...I took a 3 month sabbatical to do the Warren Smith gap course in Verbier, no way would I have had the knowledge to prepare the breadth & depth of coaching beforehand and my skiing is still benefitting today from what I learned then.
And 3 months living in the centre of Verbier was not too shabby either!
No I didnt enter full time instructing but a number of the students have done and some have risen to the top of the field. I did in fact subsequently build a large chalet in a nearby area and run that as a business today as well as a 2nd home, with some of the links and knowledge gained during the course helping to some extent
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@Mollerski, how very rude and ignorant. I don’t have any decisions to make (not that it was mine, my son chose the course) as he’s already out there. There probably are many better ways of doing a gap year but that’s what he chose to do. Why can’t you accept that?
As for whether it’s value for money, it’s my money. It’s my choice. I personally think that there are cheaper ways of doing it, but the advice and contacts it provides are good and that’s what you are paying for.
As for ‘snowplough parent’, that reveals much more about you than it does me.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@gra, I'd suggest that having the wherewithall to build a large chalet near Verbier would make you somewhat atypical within the context of this thread.
Well done however. 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
I don’t think doing it on a dry slope in the cheap would have been quite the same !
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No it wouldn't, but that's not the alternative some of us are suggesting! Your daughter spent a lot of money to get a qualification she is presumably not going to use (or she paid even more money for her university course she's not going to use to instead pursue ski instructing). The positive seems to be she came back as a better skier, but arguably she'd be an even better skier if she'd done an improver course that was aimed 100% at actually making her a better skier. Also you don't know how much she'd have simply improved by doing a season on snow (which can be considerable even without any coaching!).
Again there's no real logic/justification about why she did an instructor course rather than one of the other options to do a season.
I don't really have an issue with the courses, and can see why for some the cost is worth the convenience. But I can't really understand why ski instructor course seems to be the default option many are happy to blindly walk into even though they have no aspirations of actually working as a ski instructor. It doesn't make sense to me, there's too many all around better options.
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| rachelharrisonsmith wrote: |
As for ‘snowplough parent’, that reveals much more about you than it does me. |
That's just silly. You have no clue of my situation or back story. 
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I agree that a quality ski training course followed by a season in the mountains of skiing every day (teaching does not permit this, working in a pub does) will, without doubt produce a far more advanced and skilled skier than a 10 week instructor course which will most likely not result in any paid teaching work after, unless you're 5ft, blonde and very easy on the eye (young kids and school managers prefer instructors whom look like Disney princesses. Fact)
Last edited by After all it is free  on Sun 23-02-25 12:43; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The OP asked for feedback about the pros and cons of one of these courses for his 18 year old, "gap year", son. And if I'd asked that question I'd reckon Snowheads had provided very good value in a range of responses! If everyone had agreed with each other it wouldn't have been so illuminating.
There is absolutely no need for rudeness but that's some people's style. I wouldn't get het up about it.
Personally I'd prefer an 18 year old used a "gap year" to learn about living on their own resources. My grandson is doing just that at present, discovering that the money you can earn on a "minimum wage" job (in Australia) doesn't go far when you have to keep a roof over your head and eat. When he did "weekend jobs" for minimum wage in the local pub it mounted up quite quickly in his "gap year savings fund" when his Mum and Dad paid the bills. My son had nagged him about keeping track of his passport. But within a few weeks it had been left in a bag of supermarket shopping on a bus......
My son (who earns far more than I ever did) helped with the logistics of replacing it but made Edward pay for it himself. Harsh, but the right decision I think! He won't lose it again!
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| Mollerski wrote: |
| rachelharrisonsmith wrote: |
As for ‘snowplough parent’, that reveals much more about you than it does me. |
That's just silly. You have no clue of my situation or back story. |
What's silly is your preaching of your own gospel (which admittedly is not without interest) being relevant to the questions which have been put.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@KSH, You've made your point on a few threads now.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Mollerski wrote: |
| @KSH, You've made your point on a few threads now. |
well spotted. I read fairly widely.
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Hi everyone. OP back again to thank everyone for their contributions. There have been some differing opinions on aspects of my OP, but this thread has given me and my son plenty to consider about the relative merits of the different options for an 18 year old that doesn't know what they want to do but is interested in seeing if they could combine their love of skiing with the excitement of branching out on their own for the first time.
Thank you to all snowHeads, especially those who have sent DMs with further advice -- it is much appreciated.
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You know it makes sense.
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| boarder2020 wrote: |
But I can't really understand why ski instructor course seems to be the default option many are happy to blindly walk into even though they have no aspirations of actually working as a ski instructor. It doesn't make sense to me, there's too many all around better options. |
Actually, I’m not aware of too many options for season long pure skill improvement courses, much less packaged with lodging, by which it implies ready made socializing circles. Or at least I’ve not seen them being discussed here on snowhead.
So it seems, to me at least, these “instructor courses” are taking the place of season long skill improvement courses. That expectation is also echoed by many of the parents who post here over the years.
For parents, it’s easier to just come up with the money to pay for it. No different than paying for the kid’s university tuition. It’s just a continuation of the paying teachers to bring up their kids, from age 6 on. Many parents are probably just as happy to pay for their kids to an extended holidays too.
For the youngster, it’s just as easy to have another year of fun. It’s a holiday. And if they learned something in the course, that’s icing on the cake.
This thread had pretty much listed rather exhaustively the various pros and cons of doing a gap year on snow, whether in an “instructor course” or other options. I think the OP and his son have all the information they need to make a decision that suit them.
There’s zero response on comparing the different courses. Could it be there’re no many parents who had sent their kids to more than one course?
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Sun 23-02-25 17:25; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
Actually, I’m not aware of too many options for season long pure skill improvement courses, much less packaged with lodging, by which it implies ready made socializing circles. Or at least I’ve not seen them being discussed here on snowhead.
So it seems, to me at least, these “instructor courses” are taking the place of season long skill improvement courses. That expectation is also echoed by many of the parents who post here over the years.
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Non-stop are arguably *the* company in Canada for organised gap year courses. They run both improver and instructor courses. Perhaps it's something that isn't as available in Europe or usa. I suspect you are right though, and instructor course is the default option for most without too much thought or consideration.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@abc, An instructor course is approx 10 weeks in duration. I'm not sure where you're getting the 'season long' element from? The only way that it could be stretched to a season without delving further into the bank of Mum and Dad, is to secure a job. The chances of securing a job teaching immediately after completing an instructor course are really very, very slim. If the kid were to secure a non instructing job in a resort (much more likely), they could take lessons/courses as and when it suited throughout the season and practise what they've been taught during the day because they're not engaged in taking small kids to the loo all day every day as an employed L1 instructor, in the unlikely event that they've actually found a teaching job.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The companies l originally mentioned all offer variations based around L1 and L2 instructor training and exams and then a guaranteed job for the remainder of the season. The cost covers instructor training, exam fees, lift pass and accommodation (Nov-Apr), and then crucially a guaranteed job offer to run approx Dec-Apr. I appreciate the role of a newly qualified L1 can be more like a childminder in the snow, but the companies are actually quite honest about that.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Mollerski wrote: |
| @abc, An instructor course is approx 10 weeks in duration. I'm not sure where you're getting the 'season long' element from? |
| Mollerski wrote: |
| rungsp wrote: |
@abc, the main reason that gappies don't use the qualification is that they are only qualified at the end of the season and there are no jobs for them.
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That's a good point. |
If the course isn’t “season long”, how do you explain the above?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| daleh wrote: |
| The companies l originally mentioned all offer variations based around L1 and L2 instructor training and exams and then a guaranteed job for the remainder of the season. The cost covers instructor training, exam fees, lift pass and accommodation (Nov-Apr), and then crucially a guaranteed job offer to run approx Dec-Apr. I appreciate the role of a newly qualified L1 can be more like a childminder in the snow, but the companies are actually quite honest about that. |
That's excellent. My Daughter trained with Peak Leaders in Morzine. I'm going to message her to ask what she did for the remainder of that season, because I can't actually recall. I know that she started her first season in Verbier the following year.
She's answered that she stayed in Morzine for a few more weeks as a fellow student's parents had a chalet out there. No job.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@daleh, I'd dig down a little on 'job for the rest of the season' element. Not wishing to sound cynical, but I'm not sure how they can make that happen if they have a large intake of students. Teaching jobs just aren't that plentiful.
I have an image of a bunch of newly qualified L1s bumbling around doing little of value, being paid a pittance and living in ropey accomm. Which hopefully is way off of the mark. Not that it would be the end of the World. 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Living in ropey accommodation is surely a vital formative experience for all gap year kids?
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When my son cooked freelance in Val dIsere having told a top chalet company to stuff their job and thereby lost his accommodation, he shared a one bedroom flat with a top qualified British (not BASI 1) instructor. When times were hard they shared the one bedroom and had people paying to sleep on the sofa bed, or paying less to sleep on the floor. I advanced him the considerable upfront cost and he paid it all back.
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| Origen wrote: |
| Living in ropey accommodation is surely a vital formative experience for all gap year kids? |
Agreed, but if the bumbling around doing little of value and being paid a pittance part turns out to be the case, that's just a criminal waste of snow time.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@mollerski -- l share some of the cynicism so it has been really helpful to hear from people who have used the likes of wearesno, nonstop and easki. There seems to be a quota system linked to ski schools -- i.e. each company has agreements with various resorts to provide a certain amount of entry level instructors so they sell these packages with a 'guaranteed job'. However they are effectively zero hour contracts which clearly come with risks. I think wearesno actually state that the L1 instructors may need to do other jobs (rental shops, lift hands etc) to make ends meet. Positively, thanks to the snowHeads community, l have heard of people having very positive experiences, including someone (albeit a very experienced skier) getting lots of instructor hours and having an amazing experience in a shared house with other L1s.
Thanks again to all of you for contributing to what is a massive consideration for my family.
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Double post
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Hope it works out, @daleh. Keeping a bunch of young kids safe and happy in the snow ( and wanting to come back next day) is not doing " nothing of value". Kids who did low paid and poorly accommodated "chalet" jobs back in the day often got a lot out of it. Or at least had the sense to talk intelligently about it at interview. There are always some who get nothing valuable from their experience. One lad who interrailed for a month told me there was " nothing interesting" in Berlin so they'd not stopped there. That didn't tick many boxes on his application to join the Foreign Office. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Haha @Origen. We're looking at it as an opportunity to learn some life skills, have some personal responsibilities, all whilst being in the mountains and fitting in as much skiing as possible. Holding down a job (irrespective of the level or pay) and managing his own finances is a crucial part of this for me. Childcare in the snow does not freak him out so he will go with realistic expectations... if he manages to go beyond this, then that will be a bonus.
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@daleh, good luck to your son!
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You know it makes sense.
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@KSH, thanks for your help and advice
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@daleh,
Sounds like he may be well advised to polish up his CV with a view to applying to the tour operators this spring.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I'm quite late to the party here, as I've been on holiday a few days and not been on SH's.
I'm going through the IASI system currently, but have done it all DIY, no gap year course. If the OP's son is of a decent standard, then a gap year course is a waste of time in my eyes. I saw someone mention doing a L1 in March, and then L2 in Autumn, that's the best idea in my eyes.
Of those providers, I have spent some time with Snowminds students, as I did a first aid course back in the Autumn, and it was being run for the Snowminds L1 course. It was their first day after arriving, so they hadn't even started skiing at this point, and chatting with an English guy, he'd already realised he'd wasted loads of money on the course, and should have just done his L1 at a snowdome. €6k they'd paid to get a L1, which is absolutely mental.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
Haha @Origen. We're looking at it as an opportunity to learn some life skills, have some personal responsibilities, all whilst being in the mountains and fitting in as much skiing as possible. Holding down a job (irrespective of the level or pay) and managing his own finances is a crucial part of this for me. Childcare in the snow does not freak him out so he will go with realistic expectations... if he manages to go beyond this, then that will be a bonus.
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We are going round in circles a bit, but if they are the goals why specifically choose the ski instructor route? It just doesn't make sense to me.
All those things can be achieved by doing a season regardless of an instructor course. If you really are interested in "fitting in as much skiing as possible" you definitely want a job outside skiing hours (i.e. not an instructor!).
You accept that the outcome of a rather expensive and time consuming course is son could be a glorified babysitter with a zero hours contract and may need to find another job anyway to make ends meet. While that may not be the end of the world, it's hardly great.
Meanwhile the other seasonaires have spent their first 10 weeks working a part time evening minimum wage job and are up $3.5kcad with zero investment in training and have all day to ski as they please.
It's not particularly complicated. Pick a resort then buy; season pass, flights, and accomodation. Turn up at the start of the season when the work fairs are on and it's almost impossible to not find a job. Just stay at a hostel (most have private rooms so you don't have to share if that is an issue) and unless you are completely socially inept you will make plenty of friends.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@boarder2020, We're on the same page and the other salient point which you've not mentioned, seasonaires get to ski the cr@p out of the place. At worst they'll hit the mountain at 11am and they're smashing it until it's time to start prep'ing chalet dinner at 5. Instructors get to look at the mountain longingly whilst traipsing off to the loo for the 14th time that morning. 
Being on the mountain, but not being able to enjoy it at will, required a LOT of mental adjustment for our daughter. It's a serious consideration. Our 3 kids whom did multiple seasons not instructing were in now way jealous of Milli's elevated status and greater earning potential. in fact they felt a bit sorry for her, for her lack of freedom to ski/board, enjoy the mountain (2 of her siblings worked in the same resort).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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If you want to do a season, ski powder, drink beer & have fun then get job as a driver / pot washer / chalet girl.
If you want a career path that might allow you to live in the mountains longer term then become a ski instructor. Just be warned the reality of ski instructing is, for vast majority, often not glamorous. Endless supply of snow plough turn lessons (mainly with kids) on nursery slopes will be the reality for many instructors.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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As a demonstration. Our daughter's long term B/F also qualified as an L2 ski. He worked one winter with https://www.leselfes.com/ and that was it. He then spent a further 6 years earning very good money as a barman in Verbier with accommodation provided, skiing as much and as often as he wished. Was his qualification a waste of money? It was his ticket to Verbier which opened other doors for him.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@boarder2020 -- all useful comments. The last 48 hours, thanks to snowheads, we are considering a broader range of options... whilst trying to navigate the visa / right-to-work requirements between EU and rest of world that dont make it as straight forward as a few years ago.
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@daleh,
Does son hold/be able to obtain an EU passport?
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| Kenzie wrote: |
@daleh,
Does son hold/be able to obtain an EU passport? |
@Kenzie, no unfortunately not.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@daleh, if your son is keen on working as an instructor, there's options available in Europe, with the best bet being Andorra or the Aosta region of Italy. I've also known people to get visas in Finland too.
Japan and Canada are relatively easy with a working holiday visa.
The guys I met on the snowminds first aid course were all off to Japan once they'd finished their L1.
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FAQ
