 Poster: A snowHead
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| rungsp wrote: |
@Mollerski, I had a beer this evening with 2 instructors.
Both at the top of their game and now independent of a ski school.
Both aiming to clear 60,000 chfs this season, and both working on their Guide qualifications which would eventually add 20pct (their numbers) to earnings.
Proper careers. |
The money is great out there. Our daughter and her B/F bought two (cheapish) houses out right after 6yrs. Of course those guys are loving it.  Of course they're working towards their guiding quals, they all are. Good luck with that if they're Brit.
Proper careers?? Proper life? It depends how they prepare for the end of their 'careers' I suppose?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@daleh, said, "Hi everyone. Keen to hear from anyone with experience of the ski instructor training with job offer from any of the below. 18 year old son looking to get into instructing and travel but hasn't travelled independently so the gap year inc job offer seems appealing (although accept it could be done cheaper)."
@rungsp, @Mollerski, @Robzill, You seem to have veered away from the OP. "Gap Year", "instructing" "cheaper" and "travel" appear to be the key ask. Not a pissing contest on the pros and cons of being a Ski Instructor, which can be found in many other forums.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@RedandWhiteFlachau, Go google 'Zero experience ski instructor vacancies' for your 18yo that you've just wasted £10k on instructor training for. Or maybe try the many other forums to which you refer?
Strikes me that there are several snowplough parents following this thread, whom are not hearing what they want to hear for their would be instructor little Jonnies.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Thu 20-02-25 20:05; edited 2 times in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@RedandWhiteFlachau, oh no!
Thread drift!
That has never, ever, happened before 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Mollerski wrote: |
| @RedandWhiteFlachau, Go google 'Zero experience ski instructor vacancies' for your 18yo that you've just wasted £10k on in instructor training because he's too idle to find a job and too thick to get into university. |
That's incredibly and unjustifiably insulting to the OP/ his son.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@KSH, It wasn't directed at the OP and the intended recipient's comment got what it deserved.
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| Mollerski wrote: |
| @KSH, It wasn't directed at the OP |
Not intentionally, perhaps...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Mollerski, in reality very few instructors are working towards guide level.
I know a lot of instructors and BASI trainers.
Folks that own the ski schools in Verbier, folks who work for them and some independent.
Of the two this evening: one is in the middle of the final set of exams and assessments, if all goes well he'll be a Guide for next season.
The other is about half way.
It takes 3 to 5 years for most people I was told. A huge commitment because it is so much more than snow based experience. Rock climbing, mountaineering, expedition planning and leadership.
It's tough!
Like a Masters, or even PhD, in many ways.
Both are Brits, but both have permanent Swiss residency.
Your daughter probably knows them.
PM me if you want the names.
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| Mollerski wrote: |
@Robzill, What they're saying is, being a seasonaire, or an instructor to a lesser degree isn't a real career. It's fun, it's a fantastic life experience, but there's a time when it comes to a natural end. Of course there are exceptions, but generally they come at some point to hop onto the the treadmill of mortgages, relationships and kids. Putting down the foundations for the rest of their lives.
We've all met the weather beaten summer rep whom kept the 'party' going a little too long. Same sort of thing.
Giving being a seasonaire a bash in later life is definitely not the same thing. |
Yeah I get that, that kind of seasonaires lifestyle definitely is more of a young persons game although I’d love to do it at least once before I leave my mid 30s behind haha
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@rungsp, Could one of them be first name Jack by any chance?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@boarder2020, Nicely summarised.
My give/take away from this thread being the Dad of a seasoned instructor, is that if you seriously want to put some years in as an instructor, absolutely go for it. As a project in adding gloss to a gap year for Mum's friends to be bored by, don't bother. We all know those Mum's and I may well have been that Dad at times. 
It's a £10k ish out lay and the chances of finding work after are slim
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You know it makes sense.
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So if someone came tomme in an interview and explained what they learned and practiced as a ski instructor it would put them above many others.
Ability to assess Client’s needs (qualifying a lead), planning a solution, communication skills especially in such a way that they are convincing. Working independently with minimal supervision.
Able to be coached to improve during training. Etc etc etc.
More transferable skills than you would think.
In bio research if a student said they liked baking you just new they would be good (following a standard procedure).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@GlasgowCyclops, ....But is that because the shy, introverted, low confidence individual would probably never entertain being a ski instructor? Therefore, is being a qualified ski instructor more a shining endorsement of the person, rather than just the skills that they've picked up on their instructor journey?
A bit of both I suppose?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| GlasgowCyclops wrote: |
In bio research if a student said they liked baking you just new they would be good (following a standard procedure). |
I have a hard time seeing “research” and “follow procedure” in the same sentence.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@GlasgowCyclops, those transferable skills you list can be picked up easily without the need for a £9k investment. Or without needing to even go near snow.
Most of newly qualified instructors I spent time with in Canada's job was more glorified babysitting than "ski coaching".
Again, if you want to be a ski instructor for multiple seasons why not go for it. If you just want "transferable skills" there are many cheaper (even free) and just as good, if not even better options. If long term employment outside ski instructing is the goal just spend the time and money on developing actual skills and experience in the field you want to work in.
If you just want to ski a lot and have fun you don't need to come away with a formal qualification to justify it, just go enjoy a season. Any 18 year old living away from home for the first time will grow immensely and learn plenty regardless.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@boarder2020, that makes total sense to me, FWIW.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| boarder2020 wrote: |
I don't regret going into academia myself. However, if I had to redo things I would definitely consider (and suggest to young people) picking up a trade. My electrician friends got paid to do their apprenticeships (not much but beats paying to learn!). Once qualified they earn good money. They are always in demand and basically pick up work anywhere in the world.
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Grass is always greener on the neighbor’s lawn? 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| boarder2020 wrote: |
| ... However, if I had to redo things I would definitely consider (and suggest to young people) picking up a trade. My electrician friends .. |
You sound like my careers teacher
My electrician school mate is still doing the same repetitive work he was doing aged 16. The best day of his life will be the day he retires. In contrast, once I was past education, I never worked a single day: they just paid me to do the stuff I would have paid them to let me do. And only one of us flies helicopters.
If you have the luxury of a choice (my mate didn't), I'd think very carefully before narrowing down your options.
I know many academics who have done conspicuously well, although "academic" obviously isn't a single career path. Again, "sparky" is much more that, much less flexible.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Mollerski, Kind of missed my point.
Yes, spend 7-10K on a Canadian based Ski Season with qualification to Level II and a job. Which many young folks have done and have succeeded. Or, spend 2.5k ahead of said Canadian season AND get the same job. Simples.
One of my offspring, qualified BASI I in the UK, worked at a dry slope during her 6th form. Nailed BASI II in early November '21. Got a job in Silver Star, '21/22. The same job offer to those who spent -7-10k with reputable companies but earning from November not February. Thus saving Bank of Dad something in the region of 5K.
Worked Summer season in Whistler on the "Trail Team" and followed up with a second winter season in Whistler (23/24), passed CSAI Level III and is now on Ski Patrol training in NZ. So that's up to "Gap 3rd Year".
So, cheaper. travel and instruction as per OP's original questions.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Fri 21-02-25 20:30; edited 1 time in total
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Hi. OP here. Many thanks for all of your comments, guidance, and suggestions. I do appreciate you taking the time to share your experiences. You have really helped us understand the benefits of the DIY approach -- and l did chuckle at the comments about trying to impress other parents at the tennis club .
For balance l would still appreciate hearing from anyone with experience of the programmes offered by:
https://wearesno.com/
https://snowminds.com/
https://www.nonstopsnow.com/
https://easkiandsnowboard.com/
Thanks again
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@Mollerski, I think that you are seeing it from only one perspective. The gap year experiences are so much more than a qualification. As a route to being an instructor as a profession, agreed, there are better ways, but as a way of learning some life skills in a fairly controlled way, it’s money well spent, for me. If that makes me one of those ‘mums’ who bore their friends about it, so be it.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@daleh, my wife did a 3 month course at Fernie with Nonstop, leading to CSIA level 2. She loved it, and never looked back. She's worked for a Swiss ski school for the past 7 seasons now. Highly recommended.
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| Quote: |
I suspect their are plenty of university degrees where a similarly low percentage actually go on to work in their degree field and earn good money.
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Sure, but so what? Most degrees are not supposed to be vocational qualifications. Many of us worked and earned good money in jobs which had nothing to do with our "degree field". Many people who work in law and finance (and who generally earn more than the rest of us) did unrelated degrees. The only corporate lawyer I know, who earns a LOT more than an electrician - did a degree in politics. Then went on to do his legal training.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@daleh, I met many people that have done non stop courses (both instructor and improving). They get very good reviews. As said previously the issue is cost - you are paying a lot for what you could do much cheaper independently. If paying for that convenience is worth it or not is a personal thing.
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The gap year experiences are so much more than a qualification...as a way of learning some life skills in a fairly controlled way, it’s money well spent, for me
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As already said the instructor courses are not offering any unique "life skills" you couldn't pick up elsewhere. In fact I'd argue that having everything organised for you and being in such a controlled environment probably means less development than those being more independent. Also if your goal is simply gain "life skills" you don't need to spend £9k 
But why such a focus on ski instructor training? Honestly there is a whole world out there with thousands of unique opportunities. An 18 year old working on a volunteering project in the developing world would probably come away with much more "experience" than someone surrounding by other middle class white kids for a winter.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Origen wrote: |
| Quote: |
I suspect their are plenty of university degrees where a similarly low percentage actually go on to work in their degree field and earn good money.
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Sure, but so what? Most degrees are not supposed to be vocational qualifications. Many of us worked and earned good money in jobs which had nothing to do with our "degree field". Many people who work in law and finance (and who generally earn more than the rest of us) did unrelated degrees. The only corporate lawyer I know, who earns a LOT more than an electrician - did a degree in politics. Then went on to do his legal training. |
Sorry, but your way out of date with that view. Of course, those students embarking on vocational degree courses leading them directly into well paid professions are always going to be at the top of the pile. It's from there on down that it begins to go wrong. At our local uni there are degree courses in surfing and essentially photographing crabs underwater. These are 3yr courses incurring in the region of £60k of loan debt with all things included.
If my kid wasn't an academic high flyer, would I strap them to £60k of debt for a degree that is next to worthless? No, get on the tools son. Sending kids to 'uni' is a national obsession regardless of their academic ability. It's a scandal and it's depriving industry of a quality workforce.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Sat 22-02-25 13:39; edited 2 times in total
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| rachelharrisonsmith wrote: |
| @Mollerski, I think that you are seeing it from only one perspective. |
Absolutely not. I'm trying to give a broader perspective, some of which you appear to be not wanting to hear. I feel that you are taking only what you want from this thread and and dismissing much from individuals whom have first hand experience within the industry.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
Sorry, but your way out of date with that view. Of course, those students embarking on vocational degree courses leading them directly into well paid professions are always going to be at the top of the pile. It's from there on down that it begins to go wrong. At our local uni there are degrees in surfing and essentially photographing crabs underwater.
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Yes. Sure, if you do classics or history at Oxbridge your odds of ending up in a non-related high paid job in the city is probably quite high. But simply having a degree is not what it was once was with around 50% going to university. Many degrees are rather worthless. Of course 1% of high flyers will go onto do great in every field, and the STEM degrees continue to offer lots of well paid opportunities.
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@Mollerski, I think that you are seeing it from only one perspective.
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I think he's offering a rather fair balanced perspective as someone that has relevant knowledge. I've met around 10 young kids going down the instructor course in Canada and only 1 is still teaching (I'd argue she was the only one who ever enjoyed it or should have even gone down that route). A few are still living in resorts but got different (they would say better) jobs. The majority went back to "the real world" and are now in other professions outside the mountains.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The OP might consider the Warren Smith Ski Academy gap course too - they don't guarantee work, but they've recently started a sister ski school - Synergy - in part to provide work opportunities for recently qualified gappies they've trained (with the right to work in Switzerland).
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
If my kid wasn't an academic high flyer, would I strap them to £60k of debt for a degree that is next to worthless?
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Whether my kid was an academic high flyer or not, I'd not "strap them to" anything. My parents had little input to my choice of A levels, university career or job. And my kids made up their own mind what to study, and where. Parents seem to have become very bossy and directive.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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[quote="Origen"]
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Parents seem to have become very bossy and directive. |
..and right there you've struck the nail squarely on the head.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Origen wrote: |
Parents seem to have become very bossy and directive. |
Only SOME of the parents, thankfully.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Mollerski, No, you seem to think that our children want to be ski instructors. Mine doesn’t. It’s a nice way to do a gap year - nothing more. My son could have chosen to volunteer somewhere or do a scuba diving course, but he didn’t. He chose to spend some time in the mountains. The ski instructor course route enables him to earn a bit of cash whilst he’s on his working holiday visa.
What is it that I don’t want to hear?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| rachelharrisonsmith wrote: |
| The ski instructor course route enables him to earn a bit of cash whilst he’s on his working holiday visa. |
Will he earn more than the course cost?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
@Mollerski, No, you seem to think that our children want to be ski instructors. Mine doesn’t. It’s a nice way to do a gap year - nothing more...The ski instructor course route enables him to earn a bit of cash whilst he’s on his working holiday visa.
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But you still haven't provided any justification of why they had to be a ski instructor, and why it had to be an expensive course. As
@abc, points out you've selected an option where they will almost certainly not earn back the training costs so it's not really "making a little money", but a net loss.
If you just want to enjoy a gap year in the mountains there are countless jobs that are arguably "better" (more personal ski time, higher wages, more consistent hours etc.) and require no training or no huge financial cost.
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I think the OP is asking a specific question.
They've politely repeated the question.
It seems a bit rude to repeatedly ignore that and the thread topic. If people have strong views on these political topics - university education, or how much money is "a huge amount", or what parents should spend their money on, would the Apres section not be a better place for those things? This is is actually a ski and the question is about skiing.
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@phil_w, I suppose it is what it is, but I think that one of the things which most annoys me about snowHeads is how many people see a specific question as an excuse to ride off on one of their tenuously related hobbyhorses. But there are often nuggets of useful information to be found amongst the horse droppings!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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So here’s another prospective. Our daughter did a gap year course during COVID. And btw she paid for it. Spent two/ three years working bar and restaurant jobs. She absolutely loved it despite the circumstances. She was an excellent skier before the course having started at two and skied around six weeks a yr but came back with a v slick instructor’s style. She went to uni and finishes this year and I’ve no doubt she would like to put her skills to good use at some point in the future. But importantly the course was great fun and yes expensive but they did get all their food, accommodation and training. I don’t think doing it on a dry slope in the cheap would have been quite the same !
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And chucking my oar in as something else to consider. If I had my time over again I'd pursue the Ski-Patrol route rather than teaching. Imho it's by far the best job on the hill (and has paramedic possibilities for follow-on careers). In the 80's when I started the BASI pathway it wasn't really an option; not so much a defined career path, more something you had to be born into. Now I see plenty of "gap" style (and beyond) courses out there, no doubt many of which will have dubious value; but with dedication (and money) it is possible these days to climb the ladder and become employable. Even as a just-for-fun gap course, I'd find it much more interesting and satisfying. YMMV.
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FAQ
