 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Had a mate who did the snow works thing in the Autumn, got qualified and then went to Japan and worked the season. Had a great time.
https://snoworkspro.com/
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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As you point out it can always be done a lot cheaper than the packages - you are paying for convenience. If that's worth it is quite an individual thing.
Unless the goal is to become, and spend many seasons working, as a ski instructor it's a terrible waste of money. It's also arguably not the best use of time. There are much "better" jobs than a newly qualified ski instructor if your goals are maximising personal ski time or making money.
If you have the money the non-stop developer courses get really good reviews and probably fit most teenagers looking to do a gap year much better. (I've seen plenty of wide eyed teenagers arriving in Canada to become a ski instructor to then find they hate it and are jealous of their hostel mates who spent $0 on training, earn more as a waitress, and get to ski all day as only work evenings).
But for the price of the non-stop course you could do a lot more if you budget correctly and organise everything yourself. Arguably for the price of the courses you could just go do a season without even needing to work.
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My daughter has BASI L2 Snowboard and BASI L1 ski. She spent 6yrs working in Verbier as an instructor. Much of the above is well founded and worth bearing in mind.
She often said, that despite being in the most amazing place, the mountain isn't your's to enjoy. Very sadly, 6yrs of teaching and taking small kids to the loo has put her off boarding and she now prefers to climb.
Pub work in Verbier was an ace number. Swiss minimum wage is heaps and the days are free to ski. Being an instructor may carry greater kudos and bragging rights for mum at the tennis club, but the reality can be a little disappointing.
Think very carefully before going down the instructor route. There are lots of other ways to enjoy living/working in the mountains.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Wed 19-02-25 17:45; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@daleh,
Try asking Steve Angus for his advice.
You mention a gap year. Is your son's plan to do the course, then go to University and work as an instructor post graduation?
As has been mentioned above, if he wants to get as many miles as possible under his skis then being a ski bum is the way forward. If he can't afford to bum a season, then a job and skiing as much as it allows is the next choice. I've both worked and bum seasons, so I know the difference!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
@daleh,
Try asking Steve Angus for his advice.
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By all means a successful instructor can offer a lot of advice about making a career out of it. They are also likely massively bias in that the fact they've made a career out of it means they enjoy it and have the right skills for the job. Ask they majority who pass the course and don't make it in the profession and you might get a very different opinion!
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Has nobody mentioned that if the guy only has a British passport, his chances of getting employment in Europe are extremely limited, and he'll need a visa for work in Japan, Canada and most other places.
The "job guarantee" is no such thing if the trainee does not have the required visa. Often this has to be obtained with the support of a ski school - schools that are not exactly queuing up to employ newly-qualified, often monoglot Brits. The Danish or Dutch instructors in Austria have the ability to teach in Danish/Dutch, German and English and are far more useful to a ski school there than a British newbe who requires a visa and might only speak one language.
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| boarder2020 wrote: |
As you point out it can always be done a lot cheaper than the packages - you are paying for convenience. If that's worth it is quite an individual thing.
Unless the goal is to become, and spend many seasons working, as a ski instructor it's a terrible waste of money. It's also arguably not the best use of time. There are much "better" jobs than a newly qualified ski instructor if your goals are maximising personal ski time or making money.
If you have the money the non-stop developer courses get really good reviews and probably fit most teenagers looking to do a gap year much better. (I've seen plenty of wide eyed teenagers arriving in Canada to become a ski instructor to then find they hate it and are jealous of their hostel mates who spent $0 on training, earn more as a waitress, and get to ski all day as only work evenings).
But for the price of the non-stop course you could do a lot more if you budget correctly and organise everything yourself. Arguably for the price of the courses you could just go do a season without even needing to work. |
From the perspective of a parent it would seem that having your kids spending time formally learning, needing to be somewhat disciplined, learning to teach and influence others etc. on their gap year would seem more beneficial in the long run than being a ski bum, even if their long term intention isn't to become a ski instructor. Agree it is a personal thing but it seems worth recognising that maximising skiing time and learning to ski aren't the only outcomes from learning to be an instructor, even if you don't want to be an instructor and recognising this may make it seem like less of a waste of money.
No idea if it is the best way to become a ski instructor though if that is the long term intent/career path.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@daleh, Go and do the BASI level I course in March (for £500 in a fridge). Get best advice from your trainer on how to progress. Work your hours on the nearest dry slope/fridge to have enough to do BASI Level II in November (c.£2000 incl digs, travel etc). Concurrently apply for Canadian Work Visa and jobs in Canada. If you don't pass Level II, go to Canada anyway and find alternatives as stated above.
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Above posts seem to miss the point that a typical 9/10 week gap course will include many weeks- typically 7 or 8 intensive weeks - of high standard coaching from some of the best instructors around. OK yes, the 1-2 weeks of ski school shadowing might not add to the ski experience, but the improvement in personal skills compared to mainly doing teaching hours on a dryslope or bumming a season shouldn't be underestimated. And if you attribute value to the coaching provided then the overall costs are very reasonable- accommodation, food, season pass etc are going to add up however you DIY it
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
Unless the goal is to become, and spend many seasons working, as a ski instructor it's a terrible waste of money. It's also arguably not the best use of time. There are much "better" jobs than a newly qualified ski instructor if your goals are maximising personal ski time or making money.
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This summarize it well. Those are 2 different goals. And too many people conflate them.
For goal #1 ( blue ), we're talking about learning to teach and managing a group etc. I would think these courses would teach those, and I don't know too many other ways to learn those skills. (I did a much shorter course, for free, and found it valuable. But that's because I wanted to teach). Teaching can be a hugely rewarding experience. However, that's assuming the kid has shown interest in teaching, includes a tendency to influence/care for others. Without it, teaching isn't for them and could be a complete waste of money.
Goal #2 ( red ), as pointed out above, can be achieved with far less expense and better outcome.
Missing from the above is the goal of improving skiing, which is often the hidden yet implied goal I see over and over again when this question was asked. But that too, can be achieved with less expense, provided the youngster is disciplined in organizing lessons and doing the requisite practice.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@abc,
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But that too, can be achieved with less expense
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Possibly, but in the real world I would still bet that most Gappies with a decent provider will get a great skills training at a very decent price. And will cover a full spectrum of activity most DIYers won't get (intros to race training, park, backcountry / offpiste safety, & technique, fitness training, first aid etc...)
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@gra, do a search. This topic had been done to death. Many figures had been provided to support that. (I suspect @boarder2020 will be along shortly to elaborate on that front)
I also disagree on the "full spectrum" of activities DIYers can't get. For one, not every DIYer care to do everything on that list. And if they are interested in some, none of those skills are that hard to arranged for training.
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You know it makes sense.
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Jnr’s in his third season instructing in Andorra. He loves it. Done BASI L1, CSIA L2 and about to do CSIA L3 but not in Canada, in Andorra. It should be relatively straightforward to get an instructing job in Andorra - no EU passport needed and they want English speakers. Having CSIA should mean he might stand a good chance of getting a job in Canada in the future - that’s on Jnr’s radar when he fancies a change.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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There's a impression here that in training to be an instructor, the student will be exposed to a high level of ski training. That's not the case at L1 or L2.
Here's an example. Our daughter skied for 2 weeks at age 11. On week 3 of her snow life she switched to snowboarding. At 23 she did the coarse and qualified as an L2 snowboard instructor. The boss of the school where she worked was a BASI ski trainer. He said that if she did BASI 1 ski, he could give her a tonne of work teaching little kids to ski. As a snowboard instructor she was busy-ish, but not stacked. Nervously, she agreed to give it a bash as there was no charge. We bought her a pair of boots and kids skis (she's 5ft). After some intensive training she passed BASI 1 ski. Interestingly, a fair few gappies on the same course, whom had skied forever failed due to bad habits which they couldn't shake off.
At the end of this process, I skied with our newly qualified ski instructor daughter and rated her skiing as bog average only. My point being, the student will be taught to a level good enough to pass the exam, no more.
I'd like to add, she's majestic on a snowboard and makes me very proud. 
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Poster: A snowHead
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@daleh, my son is currently in Japan with Easiski and is having a ball. He qualified with level 1 instructor and is doing his level 2 currently.
Feel free to pm me for more details, but he’s in Shiga Kogen, which is a very quiet resort. He’s in a large chalet with about 30 other instructors and they have built their own social life. Work wise, he is getting a lot - he’s already a ski coach and has been coached for many years and that has been recognised, so he may be getting more work than other less experienced people. Whilst he’s working most days, he still gets lots of opportunities to get out on the hill, including night skiing and mucking about in the homemade park. Q
It depends on what your son wants from the experience, but I’d say that I’ve ski qualifications are secondary to the amazing time that my son is having. Before he left, he did very little for himself and has loved the independence and having to mange his own money, food, laundry (to a far less extent) etc. He left us last December as a teenager and will come back as an adult.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| gra wrote: |
| Above posts seem to miss the point that a typical 9/10 week gap course will include many weeks- typically 7 or 8 intensive weeks - of high standard coaching from some of the best instructors around. ... |
I'm not getting that at all. They are making the point that you're being taught how to teach novices. A mighty fine and decent thing for you to do. But it's not going to make your skiing "high standard", which is a completely different thing.
| Quote: |
| From the perspective of a parent it would seem that having your kids spending time formally learning, needing to be somewhat disciplined, learning to teach and influence others etc. on their gap year would seem more beneficial in the long run than being a ski bum, even if their long term intention isn't to become a ski instructor. ... |
From the perspective of an employer, I'd prefer the ski bum because they actually had to work out how to do stuff on their own. They do not need mum and dad.
Finding a job for yourself, holding it down, despite the s*it you'll take from customers, co-workers and bosses, and with no assistance from mum and dad is a life lesson worth learning. All that trust fund stuff simply tells me parents are rich. I'm not thinking about recruiting the parents!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Mollerski, agreed. There are some quite average skiers out there instructing. Jnr was coached quite a lot as a teen (racing and VI race guide) so his skiing is pretty tidy. It's interesting that his previous years instructing he was earning very average money but this season he's doing reasonably well. He mainly now teaches private lessons rather than groups (previous years lots of groups) and a lot his private lesson customers are requesting him which means he gets paid a little bit more - they tip better too!
He's grown up a little too. Rather than a lot of his earnings going into a bar, he's accumulating more ski kit at an impressive rate.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I'm adding our Daughter's experiences of 6 years an instructor. Don't get me wrong, she loved the experience and wouldn't change a thing. What I'm adding here is that on the inside, being an instructor isn't quite as 'amazingly' rosy as it may appear on the outside. All of our 4 kids have worked in the industry in one capacity or another. There's a saying which all 4 oft repeated. 'There's nothing more sad than a 40yo seasonaire.' In other words, know when to come home.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@rachelharrisonsmith, I'm getting a whiff of 'phew' here. 
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@hammerite, Working in Verbier, our daughter was sometimes hired for the day by some seriously high net worth and often famous individuals. A 2k tip at the end of the week wasn't unheard of. Her day rate was 800CHF, she'd be taken for lunch only as the person was too hung over to board. Paid for the day and the kids couldn't be bothered to leave the chalet, so she'd be sent off to do as she wished. Plenty of stories.
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| Mollerski wrote: |
There's a impression here that in training to be an instructor, the student will be exposed to a high level of ski training. That's not the case at L1 or L2.
Here's an example. Our daughter skied for 2 weeks at age 11. On week 3 of her snow life she switched to snowboarding. At 23 she did the coarse and qualified as an L2 snowboard instructor. The boss of the school where she worked was a BASI ski trainer. He said that if she did BASI 1 ski, he could give her a tonne of work teaching little kids to ski. As a snowboard instructor she was busy-ish, but not stacked. Nervously, she agreed to give it a bash as there was no charge. We bought her a pair of boots and kids skis (she's 5ft). After some intensive training she passed BASI 1 ski. Interestingly, a fair few gappies on the same course, whom had skied forever failed due to bad habits which they couldn't shake off.
At the end of this process, I skied with our newly qualified ski instructor daughter and rated her skiing as bog average only. My point being, the student will be taught to a level good enough to pass the exam, no more.
I'd like to add, she's majestic on a snowboard and makes me very proud. |
agree with that. I have the Level 1 for snowboard, and the requirements are not something special....
10 years after, i feel i am only an intermmediate snowboarder...of course there are many othe factors for this but generally speaking is what you said "the student will be taught to a level good enough to pass the exam, no more."
Of course if your level is too low, they will sent you home but that comes rarely
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@Mollerski, yeah, he's not quite at that level of earning in Andorra. Instruction is controlled by the ski resort. Private/self employed instructors aren't allowed so he can't set his own rates but his money isn't bad for a 23 year old who hasn't been to uni and hasn't really decided what to do. Interestingly though, being a seasonaire isn't so much of a thing here. The majority of instructors (and resort workers in general) are South American and it's what they do all year round - moving between European and South American winters. He went over to South America last summer too year but without working. He was just a ski bum.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@boarder2020,
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In no other sport/profession is the idea of training as a coach/teacher to seriously improve your own skills is a thing!
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I would say that a teacher's diploma in music is an exception to that. Those who take the performer's diploma are likely not to be interested in teaching at all. In terms of performance skills, there are benefits to be gained from both courses.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
After some intensive training she passed BASI 1 ski.
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BASI 1 is an introductory level only, aimed at folk starting their teaching journey working on indoor snow and plastic. You aren't licensed to teach in the mountains with an L1.
Back in the day Grade 3 (now L2) was "Assistant Ski Instructor".
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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[quote="boarder2020"]
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(but what do you expect when some of these courses take people on that start with only 2 weeks on snow!). |
Not quite, 15yrs 'on snow', 4yrs as a L2 SB instructor.
As for 'a better skier'. I'd argue a different skier. A world class freerider skis very differently to Marco Odermatt. Who is the better skier?
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@Mollerski, my point is I've met people that had 2 weeks previous ski experience. Then did an 11 week non stop course and walked away with a level 2 instructor qualification. Understandably they are not going to be amazing skiers with such little experience. It's not exactly passing the eurotest! (Although I'd argue you don't necessarily have to be a great skier to be a great instructor anyway, but that's a whole different conversation).
Again compare it to anything else. Even hiring a basic music teacher for a child you would be expecting them to have been playing that instrument for more than 3 months 
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You know it makes sense.
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@boarder2020, Ah, sorry yeah. I agree. When Milli did her L2 SB she rocked up super nervous that her boarding wouldn't be up to scratch. It transpired that she could carve her turns better than her trainer, which was a little awkward. Some on the course were flat out hopeless and consequently failed. It was a fair sum to splash out to come away with nothing.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@boarder2020,
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In no other sport/profession is the idea of training as a coach/teacher to seriously improve your own skills is a thing
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In a limited and perhaps outdated sense, commercial pilots??
I know of a few folk who did seasonal instructor courses to improve their own skiing, in a structured fashion. It seemed to work, within the constraints of their objectives.
I think the best way to become a good skier is to choose your parents wisely (i.e. living in the mountains, financially up to supporting your (and their) skiing habits, start skiing around 3 y.o. and don't allow teenage hormones to get in the way ...  )
I guess it should also be noted that this is a (somewhat) modern argument, in the good old (very, very, very old) days a basic BASI would swing you a job with the ESF (in fact, if you were pretty enough the BASI wasn't even a necessity) and ski school directors could start out as the liftie on a Poma and teach themselves.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| boarder2020 wrote: |
| On the flip side I also suspect the vast majority of Olympians have no instructor training |
I think you would be wrong.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Both my "kids" qualified to BASI2 while at school (in the holidays) and worked as instructors for gap years, university holidays and then another year after university.
They worked in Switzerland, New Zealand and Japan.
One went to ISIA, the other became an Adaptive specialist.
At aged 22 being told, in Japan, that the ski school is sacking the head of the kids unit and you are now in charge, with 30 instructors reporting to you was a formulative experience.
My son was offered his first "proper" job on a chair lift by one of his clients.
At a recent job interview the daughter was asked why she had "wasted" so much time skiing.
"I have probably done more client meetings than you" she replied, " I had 3 hours to hear what the client thought they needed, assess what they actually needed, deliver a session that met those needs, develop a rapport and then upsell to the client to get more lessons booked"
"I've probably had hundreds of such client meetings"
She got the job.
If you take it seriously, even if only for a short part of your whole life, there are so many transferable skills to be had, and a lot of fun and friendships too.
I'm genuinely surprised at the number of negative opinions in this thread.
And they are both fantastic skiers too!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@rungsp, great answers (and I am quite sure completely accurate).
@rjs, indeed, all the Olympians I know, in Alpine anyway, are +/- full cert, in their local organisations.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Mollerski wrote: |
| All of our 4 kids have worked in the industry in one capacity or another. There's a saying which all 4 oft repeated. 'There's nothing more sad than a 40yo seasonaire.' In other words, know when to come home. |
@Mollerski All of our 4 kids have worked in the industry in one capacity or another. There's a saying which all 4 oft repeated. 'There's nothing more sad than a 40yo seasonaire.'
Just out of interest What makes them say that, in what way do they mean?
I’ve never worked a season myself but always thought it sounded like a great experience even when I see older people doing it, I nearly went on one of these courses when I was 19 I’d have loved it probably to see old now
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| rungsp wrote: |
I'm genuinely surprised at the number of negative opinions in this thread.
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Are there? (“number of negative opinions”)
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If you take it seriously, even if only for a short part of your whole life, there are so many transferable skills to be had, and a lot of fun and friendships too.
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Not every single youngster is outgoing and love “client meetings” as part of their career. In fact, I’d hazard to guess more than 50% of them don’t care for it, or even hate it! So it doesn’t surprise me many gap year kids end up not using their “qualification” as beginner instructors.
Yes, the skills are transferable. But is that the most efficient way to learn those skills? Working in a bar forces you to learn a lot, albeit different set of transferable skills too. Without the expense of the courses, no less.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@abc, the main reason that gappies don't use the qualification is that they are only qualified at the end of the season and there are no jobs for them.
Most will have had fun though.
The 50pct who hate the idea of clients (probably a fair guess) just won't have gone on an instructor course in any case.
If you think working in a pub is comparable...well I'd have to disagree. Though any job that requires good timekeeping and client contact is often the foundation for what comes later in life.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Thu 20-02-25 19:30; edited 1 time in total
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@Robzill, What they're saying is, being a seasonaire, or an instructor to a lesser degree isn't a real career. It's fun, it's a fantastic life experience, but there's a time when it comes to a natural end. Of course there are exceptions, but generally they come at some point to hop onto the the treadmill of mortgages, relationships and kids. Putting down the foundations for the rest of their lives.
We've all met the weather beaten summer rep whom kept the 'party' going a little too long. Same sort of thing.
Giving being a seasonaire a bash in later life is definitely not the same thing.
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@Mollerski, I had a beer this evening with 2 instructors.
Both at the top of their game and now independent of a ski school.
Both aiming to clear 60,000 chfs this season, and both working on their Guide qualifications which would eventually add 20pct (their numbers) to earnings.
Proper careers.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| rungsp wrote: |
@abc, the main reason that gappies don't use the qualification is that they are only qualified at the end of the season and there are no jobs for them.
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That's a good point. Of our daughter's training cohort, I think that she was the only one whom secured a job the following season. She first worked for https://www.leselfes.com/ Which thankfully turned out to be a great springboard in to the independent schools in Verbier.
BASI qualified instructors are very limited in which countries they can work, without jumping through endless conversion hoops.
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@Mollerski, Les Elfers work much, much, harder than anybody else in hospitality in Verbier!
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FAQ
