 Poster: A snowHead
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Just saw this article in the Süddeutsche Zeitung, its behind a paywall so copied a relevant paragraph via Deepl
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The diversification is primarily due to the realisation that traditional alpine skiing is on the decline. Mainly due to climate change. Forty years ago, father and son Schöffel reckon that their company still generated around half of its turnover with ski clothing. Now it is only 15 per cent. ‘Skiing is becoming more and more elitist,’ says Jakob Schöffel. Global warming means that anyone who wants to ski a little further down a snowy piste has to go higher and higher up the mountain. At the same time, prices for day passes, hut catering and après-ski are rising, as are prices for equipment. The popular sport of alpine skiing has become a winter pastime for high earners. ‘This business is still highly relevant for us and a driver of innovation for the textiles we produce,’ says Jakob Schöffel. ‘But we have to react to these changes.’
Translated with DeepL.com (free version) |
Basically Schöffel who are a successful (been at for over 200 years) Bavarian clothing manufacturer who make decent ski kit are pivoting the company away from skiing and diversifying into other areas
This sort of thing is probably not news to anyone here but a fairly stark confirmation of how things are changing. Steve Angus making comments about families spending £250,000 on a holiday in Val d'Isere. I have seen comments about how expensive guiding is now in St Anton. I know how expensive St Anton has become which is a deliberate policy of the Tourist association. Beyond a bit of whinging not a huge issue for me these days but if it was like this 30 years ago I would never have been able to visit and likely given up skiing. Clearly something many people are doing as they are buying far less ski kit!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Not sure about that justification. IMV skiing-wise they always were a mainly Germanic brand appealing/marketing to an older demographic, and as far as I can see, have done little to update their appeal (or market) to the generation now aging into their demographic (ie myself), who would much prefer Scandi Gucci...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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munich_irish, good timing as Sports Pursuit have a decent collection of their clothing on sale, marketed as premium country wear.
Not a piece of ski wear in the range.
No doubt they would have once appealed, but there are now many sports brands catering to a different clientele.
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It's a bit controversial—they're going in this direction while other companies are taking a bigger share of the market.
As mentioned, Schöffel is a long-standing, traditional manufacturer. But where is their focus? On the slopes, most people aged 18 to 26 are wearing brands like Dope and similar.
Who actually buys Schöffel these days? I feel like they would have had to make this change regardless of climate change because they’re no longer competitive.
To me, it’s similar to Nokia or Ericsson—25 years ago, they were the big players, but now they’re just distant memories.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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My schöffel ski jacket is coming up for being 20yrs old. It is still in really good nick with a lot of years left in it. It is the only bit of their kit that I have bought. Based on the performance and durability of this jacket they have won my loyalty for when it comes to finally replacing it. Hopefully they will still be making them when that time comes.
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| dode wrote: |
| My schöffel ski jacket is coming up for being 20yrs old. It is still in really good nick with a lot of years left in it. It is the only bit of their kit that I have bought. Based on the performance and durability of this jacket they have won my loyalty for when it comes to finally replacing it. Hopefully they will still be making them when that time comes. |
And that's another part of their problem. If it lasts too well and for too long it doesn't get replaced for a very long time.
It's why Apple make their phones last about 30 months at the most before they start going wrong.
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The same could be said about Arcteryx , their ski/backcountry offering has really reduced . Recently went to the two London West End shops to try and replace my eight year old ski/shell suit realised that there had been a big change, met by Q ing Chinese and other overseas tourists buying what is now considered a fashion brand . The range on offer reflected this . I’m not against a company chasing the buck but they have to be careful with what’s left when they aren’t so in vogue.
I’m actually finding buying what I want quite a challenge but thats got a lot to do with my later life shape , bigger chest and waist = long arms and legs of a Scandinavian giant .
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Hence the new diet .
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| turms2 wrote: |
| Who actually buys Schöffel these days? |
Me. I own a few bits, and replaced my Schöffel jacket with another one bought in the sales at the end of last year for a decent price. It's good kit.
Bit of a shame, although I don't think we're at the point where "the popular sport of alpine skiing has become a winter pastime for high earners" just yet.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Tue 18-02-25 14:01; edited 1 time in total
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The people buying shoffel now are rural-types and horsey folk.
You can’t move at a countryside march for all the gillets!!!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Copying one paragraph out of 15 or so probably gives a somewhat false impression. If Schöffel had simply wanted to appeal to a different demographic within the "ski" market it would have been easy to bring in some designers and set up other "brands" but they have not done so as the effort involved would not have been worth it. The market is declining rapidly especially with younger people. I would assume they have employed consultants to analyse where the "sports" clothing market is heading and have decided to invest elsewhere notably in "work" clothing (how many Screwfix & Tool Station shops are there in the UK, it is a huge market here). A business, if it is to grow and prosper, has to make hard headed decisions about what is going to work in the future (the phone analogy is relevant) and, sadly, ski kit is going to become an expensive niche market. They are not pulling out especially as it is a useful test bed for material technology and I suspect a useful marketing tool but the company is going to make its money elsewhere.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Le Grand Renard wrote: |
| I’m actually finding buying what I want quite a challenge but thats got a lot to do with my later life shape , bigger chest and waist = long arms and legs of a Scandinavian giant . |
That was a bonus for me with Schöffel. They sell their trousers in a short leg version which is great for fatties like me!
| jamescollings wrote: |
| The people buying shoffel now are rural-types and horsey folk. |
I've been called a cowboy a few times but I'm not sure that is what you're talking about! I'm 100% not a rural horsey type though!
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I would say there is definitely a market but that market is possibly declining. Not only that there are plenty of other manufacturers operating and competing at the high end of the market.
Global warming is always a good excuse (yet we read of ever more skier days in surveys). Howabout, the overall cost of winter sports is high and people have only limited budgets. Reverse snobbery is less of a problem - how many times have I seen posts on here - the Aldi/Lidl/TK Maxx ski kit sale is on? Decathlon are big on the continent as well. If you are only going to ski one week a year on piste their stuff is fine.
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You know it makes sense.
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My son in law, who is very tall and slim, has Schoeffel ski pants, which he's had for as long as I can remember. Only skis a week or so a year (though he would love to ski more if he had more money) and won't replace them till they wear out. He does a lot of water sports, and has good (and often expensive) gear for that too, but again, will only buy new stuff when he needs it. Perhaps that's true of lots of people who want good gear to be comfortable and effective but feel no need to keep churning it. Like @dode and his 20 year old jacket.
As for a "specialised" ski-wear market, why should there be any such thing? There's no characteristic (waterproof, breathable, flexible, comfortable, warm, unrestricting, good looking) which is unique to the "ski market", is there? And the choice between an all-in-one insulated jacket or a lightweight shell and separate warm layers is by no means unique to skiing - indeed, I've always used insulated ski jackets but for walking would always prefer a waterproof and windproof shell which can easily be stuffed in a small backpack. Indeed, will often not come out of the backpack.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Strikes me that for most of us ski specific kit is unnecessary, if every manufacturer of breathable jackets had a pocket in the left sleeve for as ski pass, then most of us could use our walking and sailing jackets. And there is no reason not to use our walking and sailing thermals to layer up.
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Poster: A snowHead
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You don't need and arm specific pocket. It's always worked for me in my lh trouser pocket. Worst case if it needs to be on a limb a simple elasticated arm holder ( like bouncers have) would suffice worn over mid layer.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| DavidYacht wrote: |
| Strikes me that for most of us ski specific kit is unnecessary, if every manufacturer of breathable jackets had a pocket in the left sleeve for as ski pass, then most of us could use our walking and sailing jackets. And there is no reason not to use our walking and sailing thermals to layer up. |
There is lots of potential for cross over as for most people in most sports the sport specific stuff isn't essential. For skiing I want waterproof and breathable, to be able to shelter me in a storm so I don't have to stop skiing. A generic, but high end, walking jacket does that fine.
But I very rarely wear (or pack) that walking jacket if just going walking, or watching football in the rain etc.. I save it for best which includes skiing and the odd 'proper' walk/hike. And so in the end it does more skiing days than anything else. So next time I'll probably get a skiing jacket for the marginal added convenience and comfort. Or just look what is on the market across walking, skiing etc. when I need a new jacket.
But look around in resort, the vast majority are wearing low to mid range insulated jackets. I doubt they also have high end sailing or walking kit. I'd guess that Schöffel are suffering from being in a niche that has disappeared due to fashion and competition. You can get very good quality kit at the low end now so if budget is your concern you go there, if you care about the brand/image is your concern then there are newer brands that are trending, and if you're a gnarly type (or wannabe gnarly type in it for the look) then you're not in the market for an insulated jacket.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Tue 18-02-25 15:21; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I always thought Schoeffel was an outdoor countrywear brand (rather like Barbour) first and a ski wear brand second. As they were established in 1804, cutting back their skiwear is concentrating on their core product and reducing what in the company lifetime cycle is a relatively short diversification into skiwear.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Judging by their popularity amongst shooting/farming/racing folk Schoeffel ain’t disappearing anytime soon!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
the vast majority are wearing low to mid range insulated jackets. I doubt they also have high end sailing or walking kit
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If they are sailors or walkers, they probably do! I have always had "high end" sailing kit and sailing jackets are quite different from ski jackets, which don't have to be wonderfully waterproof (if it's very wet I'd go to a bar). Nor do they have to keep out high winds and flying spray.
When I first went skiing, school trip in 1963, we were all beginners and nobody had what you'd call "recognisably ski wear". Then when I went again, years later, we had highly recognisable ski wear from the likes of C&A. Or later, a Degré 7 all in one in shades of pink and purple. Not the sort of thing you'd ever wear to do anything else. I did once wear that ski suit to watch a school rugby match in foul weather. People evidently thought I was mad. Now, a lot of the parents watching a school rugby match will be in clothes you could easily wear skiing.
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FAQ
I’ve have several of my ski jackets “taken away” by my family member/relatives/good friends. 
Expensive gift for me. But years later, they still remember it by showing me the very durable and very practical jacket I gifted them!
