 Poster: A snowHead
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| Origen wrote: |
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I guess I've come along to internet forum to make things up...
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 Yes, in around 1200 days skiing I never encountered big "race clubs" groups led by instructors doing stupid speeds down open pistes.
Sorry that upsets you so much, @homers double, that you resort to arsey sarcasm.
Perhaps it's an Italian thing. |
Nope, saw the same thing in Zell a couple of weeks ago, that and kids lesson groups routinely of 15+ pupils.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| I totally get that beginners can't do that but if they keep to beginner slopes it's not a massive problem. The problem is when everyone ends up on the same run where self preservation does become a valuable skill. FTAOD I'm not the problem there but the 20ish blue run hero who is a great skier because he's just "done" his first black might be. |
If beginners stick to beginner slopes how are they ever going to progress? They may be able to ski such slopes perfectly but when they go somewhere steeper (even marginally) they usually become nervous and take 2 stepps backwards.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Chris_n wrote: |
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| I totally get that beginners can't do that but if they keep to beginner slopes it's not a massive problem. The problem is when everyone ends up on the same run where self preservation does become a valuable skill. FTAOD I'm not the problem there but the 20ish blue run hero who is a great skier because he's just "done" his first black might be. |
If beginners stick to beginner slopes how are they ever going to progress? They may be able to ski such slopes perfectly but when they go somewhere steeper (even marginally) they usually become nervous and take 2 stepps backwards. |
I'm not saying they shouldn't progress but are you saying there is no need to prepare them for the "under fire" aspects of progressing to a typical blue run hero slope or home run? Note not in the ideal world where everyone has total respect for everyone and the code but the real world that precipitated this thread?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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No, it happens in Austria as well. [race club super speed snakes that is]
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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That funnel in Sauze by the Bear can be absolutely carnage, especially towards the end of the day. Too many time I’ve seen all manner of people, expert or otherwise, hacking it through there with not a care in the world.
I have to say, I was in Cervinia this year and I have never seen such inconsiderate instructors. Stopping in the middle of the piste with a big group snaked in ridiculous positions across the piste seemed to be actively encouraged, it’s like they were deliberately making a nuisance of themselves. Not seen it anywhere near like that before wherever I’ve been.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| Chris_n wrote: |
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| I totally get that beginners can't do that but if they keep to beginner slopes it's not a massive problem. The problem is when everyone ends up on the same run where self preservation does become a valuable skill. FTAOD I'm not the problem there but the 20ish blue run hero who is a great skier because he's just "done" his first black might be. |
If beginners stick to beginner slopes how are they ever going to progress? They may be able to ski such slopes perfectly but when they go somewhere steeper (even marginally) they usually become nervous and take 2 stepps backwards. |
I'm not saying they shouldn't progress but are you saying there is no need to prepare them for the "under fire" aspects of progressing to a typical blue run hero slope or home run? Note not in the ideal world where everyone has total respect for everyone and the code but the real world that precipitated this thread? |
Doesn't really apply to me in my home area in many respects. The 'home' runs are either steep reds or blacks apart from a section at the bottom of a steep pitch that is the only way back from a blue that is relatively flat so many are in a tuck at up to about 80kmh. These people tend to stay on the left side of this run as it easier at high speed, we always tell our people to stay on the right half if they want to make turns and control their speed. This has never caused a conflict that I am aware of.
Of course if there are crossing points etc I make them aware of the dangers and do tell them that they are responsible for allowing people who are faster to have a chance of overtaking safely. I tell them they should make regular turns and if they are going to change what they are doing they should check to make sure it is safe before doing so.
To be honest the biggest issue we have with any of this is badly supervised mainly German school groups where you may have 20 or even 30 reckless teenagers with one teacher who can hardly ski. I am aware of an incident in a neighbouring area today where a friend of mine was instructing a school group (about 10-12 kids) and was getting dive bombed by a German group with their teacher. He asked the teacher to please control his group as it was dangerous and received a less than positive reply. Shortly after the head of the ski school appeared on the slope and absolutely tore a strip off the teacher and told him if he didn't control his group he would get their lift passes deactivated and get them banned from the area. That apparently had the desired effect.
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It does sound as though part of this problem stems from groups of beginner skiers who are under inadequate supervision and who are presumably acquiring ever more bad habits without realising it. And from some ski instructors - and I have no idea how big a problem this is overall - who are not very good at their jobs. I have certainly seen some shocking examples of the latter at Hemel (though not so much recently). There again, instructors too have to learn.
I wonder if one of the most important messages to get across, somehow, to young racers and to incompetent adults, is that well-used message Speed Kills. More signs to that effect, like on roads? And more 'policing'. Certainly the Italians seem to be coming down fairly hard on drunk skiers these days, so the manpower seems to be available to deal with other dangerous behaviour.
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I didn’t participate in this thread when I first saw it (and now don’t have time to read through all 5 pages of post that has since accumulated). I thought “isn’t this always been the case?”??? 
Ever since I started skiing as a youngster myself, and through all the years I skied, I’ve seen a fair share of youngsters skiing out of control at one time or another. As typical youngsters, they felt invincible! And let’s face it, when you’re a youngster, even if you crash and burn, you bounce right back up without missing much of a beat!
Same for beginners. They don’t know what they don’t know. Once they’re comfortable in the beginner trail, the most logical thing to do next is to try the intermediate trail! How many of the “oldsters” here can say they never ventured into trails that were beyond their ability at one time or another?
Eventually, we all learned our lesson and we don’t make that kind of mistake as often. Or not at all, because we stay conservative when in doubt.
What’s change that got people up in arms lately, is the overcrowding of the ski slopes. Even if it’s the same percentage of out of control youngsters & beginners, when there’re more people on the same slope, that translate into more out of control skiers!
That’s one more lesson we need to learn as “experienced skiers” is to stay the hell away from crowded resorts during peak periods. Mind you, even the moaning about out of control beginners and youngsters exist all those years too!
Yes, climate change had made some of the lower elevation resorts more risky early season, especially Christmas/NY. That is something to keep in mind. If you’re limited to peak period because your kids are in school, you’ll just have to choose between the risk of limited man made snow slopes to ski on vs the risk of larger number of barely in control skiers in those “snow sure” high altitude resorts! There’s no such thing as free lunch.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@abc, Couldn't agree more. It seems to me that the higher resorts are busier during non peak weeks now.
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| gixxerniknik wrote: |
| @abc, Couldn't agree more. It seems to me that the higher resorts are busier during non peak weeks now. |
They are. Chatting with a hotelier in Colfosco he commented that up until and including January 2020, all of January after NY week, had always been quiet. Whilst for the last three years, only the week after NY week is quiet. A sea change.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Mmmm. Interesting. If lots of places are busier now than they've been in the past, which are the resorts which are quieter. In the past, in the Espace Diamant, we often skied on completely empty pistes in "low season" weeks but now they're apparently a lot busier (judging from reports, I've not skied for a few years and only been there at Christmas, which has always been busy.
Yes, a few resorts have completely closed down, but just very small ones which wouldn't have made much difference. So where are the sizeable number of extra skiers coming from?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Brazil, China, Australia. Larger middle classes in formerly poorer parts of Europe. The next generation of adults who don’t need a deposit on a house as parents have dealt with it. Student loans.
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But that would suggest more people skiing, and I thought I'd read that the market was contracting?
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You know it makes sense.
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But the world’s middle class is getting bigger and wealthier and can choose more premium products/holidays.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
I thought I'd read that the market was contracting?
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I thought wrong, it seems. The market is projected to show strong growth. So I'm quite glad my skiing days, when I enjoyed empty slopes and no no lift queues for many weeks of the season, are over. I dislike crowds!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Brazil, China, Australia. Larger middle classes in formerly poorer parts of Europe. The next generation of adults who don’t need a deposit on a house as parents have dealt with it. Student loans.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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It's not just the smaller resorts are closing, as @Origen, rightly says that's just a small number of places. What I think is happening is that people local to smaller resorts aren't going there anymore but instead are going to the higher ones. At least that's what I saw when I stayed with a mate near Le Sambuy.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Lift capacity and faster lifts is another point. In the bad old days of horrendous lift queues at peak periods bodies were parked at the bottom of slopes or on slow chairs rather than recirculated quickly. I suspect it means people generally quit earlier in the day but it doesn't help peak busyness.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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This thread and the fact that our gracious sovereign, who is younger than I am, has given up skiing, are beginning to spook me. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
In the bad old days of horrendous lift queues at peak periods bodies were parked at the bottom of slopes or on slow chairs rather than recirculated quickly
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Yes, that's a good point. And as for much more crowded mid-Januaries, perhaps more people have finally realised the folly of skiing at times like New Year if not forced to do so!
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I spent most of January in Les Contamines and the weekends were genuinely busy - I'd say when the weather was good then peak season type busy with the car parks full by mid morning and essential to book restaurants on and off slopes. But weekdays remained really quiet. The weekend visitors are largely people driving in from local towns. 16 coaches carrying local ski clubs arrived one saturday morning.
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Of course in Les C it is the car parks and first lift capacity that are the bottlenecks. It was never THAT busy on piste beyond last run down.
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| Origen wrote: |
Mmmm. Interesting. If lots of places are busier now than they've been in the past, which are the resorts which are quieter. In the past, in the Espace Diamant, we often skied on completely empty pistes in "low season" weeks but now they're apparently a lot busier (judging from reports, I've not skied for a few years and only been there at Christmas, which has always been busy.
Yes, a few resorts have completely closed down, but just very small ones which wouldn't have made much difference. So where are the sizeable number of extra skiers coming from? |
Folk cancelling their no cancellation accommodation bookings at lower altitude villages after seeing the snow/temperatures lie of the land, plumping for their high altitude alternative.
In our three recent trips to Ski Amade and Alta Badia, not in European school holidays, lots of cars from H, CZ, SLO, SK and PL. Chatting with some Poles and Slovaks, they mentioned that in recent winters they simply cannot rely on the High Tatra. Also plenty of Belgian families with school age kids in our Colfosco hotel in late January.
With climate change, are families and skiers in general turning January into high season?
Are there fewer skiers in Alpbach, Megeve and Soll than 15 years ago?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Feck, just as my kids go to Uni and we can see ski early Jan it becomes busy.
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@Layne, Serre Chevalier was not that busy in early January. There's always been weekenders and coaches up from Italian ski clubs, but didn't seem too bad this time. Must have all been further North.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Meribel and the 3 Valleys didn't feel particularly busy first week of February.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Hells Bells, @JDL65, cheers. It was slightly tongue in cheek.
I usually go Christmas week and Easter which are not too bad anyhow (compared to NY which we've never done but seen the traffic coming in and Feb HT which we've done once). But next year as I say may go for early Jan and I suspect whatever that would be quieter than Christmas week. Will find out in due course.
We ski off piste quite a lot and at times like lunch and later in the day, or in bad weather. So make the best of quieter periods. And generally when it's busy ski as defensively/carefully as possible. I'm torn on the idea of more patrol/police - just on it's effectiveness and vibe. But I'm open to ideas/trials. I always feel education, messaging, self policing, can go a long way.
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| JDL65 wrote: |
| Meribel and the 3 Valleys didn't feel particularly busy first week of February. |
3 Valleys were heaving, packed to the gills, no room to swing a cat in mid January. Wouldn't suggest anyone comes then 
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Layne,
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FAQ
