 Poster: A snowHead
|
So I was reading an article from a ski instructor in les 2 alps
He said that youths particularly male are ruining skiing in the resort
Bombing down pistes with no regard for anyone other than themselves
He said they are powerless as were the instructors in valdesere
Have you noticed this across the alps ????
Many years ago Val d’Isère tried to take away a lift pass from a dangerous skier who turned out to be an avocat [lawyer], who sued them and won.
The argument was that a) they had sold him an item, and therefore had no right to remove it; and b) that the item in question was the right to use the lifts, and had nothing to do with use of the pistes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
@Macey1975, I haven't really noticed an issue but I'm usually skiing pretty fast myself so relatively the youngsters may even be going backwards. Or maybe I'm part of the problem. I can imagine it is a bit fraught for ski instructors especially with the poor snow conditions this year.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
I would say Middle Aged men who aren’t as good as they like to think would be a far bigger issue.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
A ski instructor isn't there to act as judge of fact of on-mountain behaviour. If I were a punter I'd not want the instructor I'd paid for bickering with someone who may or may not have broken some intangibly interpreted rule for half my lesson. Likewise if said perpetrator just skis off, as an instructor should you be chasing them down to relieve them of their ski-pass or does their duty of care lie with their students - I'd say the latter.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
Yes, some "youths" do bomb down pistes with no regard for anyone else...but then you see plenty of older skiers doing the same too, and let's not start on ski instructors who show no regard for anone else, snaking the ski school the full width of a medium/wide piste leaving no corridor for other skiers to safely pass (but will happily swarm a slow skier downhill of them with their snake).
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Probably a good thing we're safely in "Off Piste" then... 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
By the way those were not my views lol.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@davidof is the snow that bad ? I thought france was good this year ?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
@Richard_Sideways, The instructor can judge if the out of control skier is a danger to their own students.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Mjit, It's a long time since I've seen a ski school snake that didn't leave a channel to get by at the edge of a piste. If the channel's too narrow, maybe you are going to fast?
@Richard_Sideways, I don't want my ski instructor having to police the mountain, but they would certainly be a good judge of on-mountain behaviour.
The plonkers flying round the piste at speeds they can't maintain control at are not always young men, but they are always men. I just assume they are the same people who clip their helmets to their rucksack and hit people in the head as they walk down the aisle of the plane.......
(For those bashing instructors, have you had any lessons recently? I have, with UCPA and ESF and they are VERY different from the lessons of my youth, in both how ons is taught and the instructors general attitude. Those lazy stereotypes are stuck in the past)
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
@Macey1975, It was ok over Christmas but poor since, lots of high altitude rain leaving hard and icy pistes and quite a lot of injuries. Casualty at Grenoble was full in January. But it is all relative. Not conditions I mind too much but I've heard a lot of moaning.
At les Arcs on Saturday as an anecdotal it was fine about 2000m but a bit thin - lots of rocks visible which are normally snow covered but down below 1700 towards Peisey it was skiing on the man made they laid down at the start of the season.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Wed 12-02-25 16:54; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
@galpinos,
| Quote: |
It's a long time since I've seen a ski school snake that didn't leave a channel to get by at the edge of a piste.
|
Oops, minefield city. Some snowHeads consider such a channel not to be for the use of punters. (I have yet to read a convincing explanation for this, but it is apparently a thing.)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
bla bla bla... youngsters are bombing down... bla bla bla...
I try not to ski in February, but in other weeks I didn't see anything particularly outrageous in the last few years.
yes, you could observe an individual or two bombing down the crowded home runs, and I do make a mental note myself that they could be a little more prudent, but they have always existed, and I guess always will...
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
If you are happy with instructors or some other random on-mountain official doling out immediate and righteous justice to plonkers, idiots and yoofs-wot-need-an-propah-'aircut, then will you quiescently offer up your pass when they deem YOU to have been out of control or going too fast or whatever infraction based on the evidence of 10 seconds or less of observation without right of reply?
...Aaaand before you go all "Well I would NEVER do such a thing!" that's irrelevant - this is an arbitrary 3rd persons opinion.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
@alexsas,
| Quote: |
they have always existed
|
I tend to agree. It's been about 16 years since I was knocked for six by an unguided missile in the shape of an English teenager. I've been nervous of collisions ever since, but I think that's probably my problem.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| KSH wrote: |
@alexsas,
| Quote: |
they have always existed
|
I tend to agree. It's been about 16 years since I was knocked for six by an unguided missile in the shape of an English teenager. I've been nervous of collisions ever since, but I think that's probably my problem. |
I am also worried about this. I try to use the same strategy as when driving: do not be an obstacle, go the same speed as the flow, do not be anywhere near other person, i.e. pass them ASAP and as wide as you can. When standing I am trying to be behind the pistes signs or somewhere out of the way as much as I can... but you never know...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Yes, I agree too. It's surprising how few collisions there are. As with motoring, most people are pretty careful. The view that all (the other....) drivers or skiers are irresponsible idiots just makes for a miserable outlook on life.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| galpinos wrote: |
| @Mjit, It's a long time since I've seen a ski school snake that didn't leave a channel to get by at the edge of a piste. If the channel's too narrow, maybe you are going to fast? |
Well don't know when you were last out skiing but happened upon one about 14 day's ago in the PdS.
And where does "If the channel's too narrow, maybe you are going to (sic) fast" come from? Are you suggesting that the channel width is relative to my speed? And in this case the snake was full width/a full S so there was no channel. Would a channel have magically appeared if I'd started side stepping back up the hill? Or are you making wild assumptions that I somehow had to force my way past because 'they were too slow' - when in fact I caught up with them, thought the instructor was a dick for leaving no channel when this piste was more than wide enoug, but not being a dick myself just sat behind until the piste windened even further and I could safely overtake without 'stressing' the beginners in the snake who were just doing as they had been told.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
As an instructor, I'd say the greatest risk comes from folks stopping in the middle of a piste, usually all across the top of a steeper section, or from those really annoying European "teachers" with aforementioned snakes of 20 kids.
Last year I politely asked a group of chaps stood on exactly the sort of spot where accidents happen if they wouldn't mind moving to the side. The response was (in English), "We've paid to stand here!"
"Ah, but have you paid to be a Prick?" Says I.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
@nbt, less off piste skiing, more piste off skiing...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
If a ski school snake, or a tractor on a narrow road, is going slower than you would like, the answer is to wait behind them until you can safely pass. Even if the instructor's own course down the hill is leaving space to pass there's no guarantee that the kids will follow in her tracks. You have no God-given right to overtake.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
oh this thread is getting out of control 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Not defending the guy but can see how it happened.
I Challenging slope to have a beginner on
II Instructor shuts the door on outside line
III Irresponsible person has no other options at speed they were travelling.
While it was ever thus we see more incidents courtesy of video nowadays. I don't really know the solution if resorts won't take direct punitive action beyong Protect Yo'self.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Instructor and kid making fairly predictable short turns, some room elsewhere to the left.
The skier’s a moron.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
Re the lawyer; won in that case. No big deal to adjust the ski pass T&Cs to deal with that in the future. Practical application would then need refining. If they can succeed in the litigious US, they can in Europe. Would ski patrol or lifties want to enforce it given the current trend towards might is right?
Snakes and routes past; what happened to “Downhill skier has right of way”?
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| Orange200 wrote: |
Snakes and routes past; what happened to “Downhill skier has right of way”? |
What practical use is it when someone like in the facebook video decides they need to pass anyway? Why do something that you know exposes you to more risk? Being "right" in a hospital bed isn't a victory.
I do plenty of things on a busy run that I wouldn't do if it was near empty like run straight on the side of a cat track rather than weave around.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Seen both sides of this.
Sweajnr is a U12 ski racer who's spent 50+ days / year on snow since he was 8 so he skis fast. Having 30 odd members of his club all zip past you is disconcerting and I'd imagine if you were a more novice skiier it'd be very worrying especially as it's harder for a novice to appreciate that they are still very much in control. However they mostly steer clear of easy slopes and are frequently reminded to slow down when they are just cruising around. As has been commented above if you're skiing with a regular rythum with predictable turns they won't even come close.
I much prefer that though to what I sometimes see which are poorer skiers just straightlining parts of the run with no attempt to be on an edge; often with almost straight legs and arms out to the side... basically not "ready" to make a turn if the situation required it.
It's not uncommon in Canada to have "slow skiing zones" marked by signs with patrol at the top / bottom who will happily pull your pass if you are judged to be too fast within that area.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
The instructor who wrote the letter is a She - a great snowhead too.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
@Nadenoodlee, Who last posted on snowHeads in 2016! Doesn't time fly...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
@sweaman22, it's not race kids you generally have to worry about although with their exposure to gate proximity and each other when freeskiing they can get uncomfortably close. It's those others emulating them or their freeskiing icons without the same skill base.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
@boredsurfin, doesnt it just!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
On Patrol we have managing safety which includes skier behaviour as part of our remit. If someone is seen repeatedly being a dick we might exercise the right to remove their pass to assist with the wider safety of the slopes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
I read the article this morning. It’s not something I really noticed even when I’m on the greens with my 4 year old.
Anecdotal but the closest call I have had this season was a UCPA instructor almost going into the back of me on a red. Maybe they thought it was fine but they definitely sprayed me with enough snow that I briefly entered the white room.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| MAthert wrote: |
| Anecdotal but the closest call I have had this season was a UCPA instructor almost going into the back of me on a red. |
Again, a singular personal experience this past fortnight in the Dolomites, in the left channel on the blue off Cherz, spouse in the right, approaching the road crossing and slowing as the piste narrowed & steepened, when I was passed at speed & shoulder-brushing distance. They didn’t slow/signal an apologetic wave/stop when yelled at. He, for it was a younger gentleman on a snowboard, proceeded to repeat this with two other skiers, and then nearly lose it, before just making the tight corner at the bottom & finally stopping.
I was a lot less than pleasant when I caught up with him … and so repeated my mistake of failing to get phone number, or at least photos, as per the boarder who partially concussed my wife in Ischgl in 2023. Though he did actually stop & apologise - partly due to being flat out on the piste. People do make mistakes - it’s how they/you/me handle them that’s important.
| RedandWhiteFlachau wrote: |
| As an instructor, I'd say the greatest risk comes from folks stopping in the middle of a piste, usually all across the top of a steeper section |
Seen a fair bit of this in France, though often where easier/slower routes cross faster ones. But either way, it could be ascribed to not recognising that:
“You aren’t stuck *in* traffic; you *are* traffic”
…thus also failing to recognise that being stationary relative to other traffic carries its own risks.
(BTW thanks for the reminder @admin!)
| Quote: |
Last year I politely asked a group of chaps stood on exactly the sort of spot where accidents happen if they wouldn't mind moving to the side.
The response was (in English):
"We've paid to stand here!"
"Ah, but have you paid to be a Prick?" Says I. |
Ahh, that’ll be what I will now forever call the “Pillock Premium”
…if only to avoid the profanity filters ;-}
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Wed 12-02-25 21:00; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I read today in Connexion it is our old Snowheads contributor Easiski who is behind the furore.
Lot of respect for Charlotte and her opinion.
Let's face it - we all indulge in a bloody stupid sport, sliding on planks (or tea-trays) at speed: bound to hurt yourself, or be hurt, or hurt someone else, during a lifetime of doing it. So minimising risks is not a bad thing,
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
On Patrol we have managing safety which includes skier behaviour as part of our remit. If someone is seen repeatedly being a dick we might exercise the right to remove their pass to assist with the wider safety of the slopes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
There are a few videos going round on FB, TikTok etc, one in particular of an English lady giving some very foul-mouthed 'advice' to some young guys. Along the lines of "you're $hit skiers, you need lessons, if you were in America you'd lose your passes"... lots of other ones of people actually slamming into each other, skiers, boarders, kids, old people, the whole gamut of who skis.
Not sure if it's linked to an increase of if the algorithm just likes to feed me ski crash videos...
Anyway, didn't notice much of this in Italy over Christmas; crowded slopes do leads to inevitable close calls but did notice lots of people stood in stupid places. One resulted in a fight - an old guy stood at the bottom of an icy red who got wiped out by a young lad on a board; fisticuffs ensued, poles were whacked on people's heads, people were shoved. All felt a bit odd and very unnecessary.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Wed 12-02-25 20:58; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
| poles were whacked on people's heads, |
Another reason for a helmet... ( that's enough thread diversion...Ed. )
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
