 Poster: A snowHead
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When there's a family of 6 travelling, the cost of everything multiplies so we are a little more cost conscious perhaps than others.
So every year we ski we think "we'd really like great skis" and every year we find that Alpinresorts deals on what they badge as "top end" skis in shops in resorts like Tignes are so unbelievably massively cheaper than any other potential supply that we we sign up to them and get skis which are probably in truth pretty much just "OK".
e.g. at "Precision Ski Diva" in Tignes, AlpinResorts will price their "top end" male ski hire at £54 for the week. Via Intersport at their Rond Point des Pistes store booking online, even their lowest end skis are priced at 87Euros for the week, and their "top end" skis would be 175Euros. I could practically buy skis for that price!!
Am I missing something? Is there a way for the big brands like Intersport / Skiset etc to price any where near comparable with the deals that Alpinresorts offer, and am I getting much more bang for my buck if I spend more? Is it just that AlpinResorts use crappy ski hire places and / or the shops bring out only their lower end stock / higher used stock? Alpinresorts website says the ski at their top end would be the "HEAD WC Rebels e.XSR" or equivalent. As someone who isn't really into the tech I can't comment whether that is good or not, nor could I really argue the point if we got to the shop either.
I'm not saying I ever feel ripped off; just that I feel a little bit in the dark as to whether paying cheap hire prices is a massive false economy for your classic family who ski 6x days maybe 2 times every 3 years.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Why worry - if you're happy with the skis you get and they aren't obviously trashed or clapped out?
At the level you describe I doubt you'd get real use out of top performance demo skis anyway.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I strongly suspect you're right. I suppose my issue is that I don't really understand the market I'm operating in. I can understand if an online agency can get some discounts, but the size that they appear to get is nuts. They could make a tonne of money even if they only offered half the discount that they put in place!
And actually some of our party are pretty adept at skiing and I have a lingering suspicion that they might benefit from better kit. Our eldest has his own kit and has already done a week this year on that kit and he waxed lyrically about how much better his week's experience was compared to some of the hired kit he's used in the past, so that has got me wondering.
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It's such a lottery isn't it.
One has no idea what 'Head WXYZ' means. And that's never what one gets anyway, so even if one has looked up the WXYZ and knows they're €500 new, one'll be given Salomon PQRSs. And the top-sheet will be scratched to bits, because they always are, because they're hire skis.
And sometimes the skis are 'yay' and sometimes they're 'meh'. And one has no idea how, or why.
I bought my own last season and that's made my skiing life easier.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I think their prices / quality is usually pretty similar to the other ski hire aggregators. I don't think Alpinresorts includes boots in the base price, so the total you'll pay will go up quite a bit if you're also hiring these.
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| denfinella wrote: |
| I think their prices / quality is usually pretty similar to the other ski hire aggregators. I don't think Alpinresorts includes boots in the base price, so the total you'll pay will go up quite a bit if you're also hiring these. |
I don't think and rental shop includes boots by default in their price list. There will always be a skis only and a boot+ski option as well as sometimes extra for the poles.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
Why worry - if you're happy with the skis you get and they aren't obviously trashed or clapped out?
At the level you describe I doubt you'd get real use out of top performance demo skis anyway. |
Unrelated to this thread but my son is on a school trip in Italy just now, the rentals there all have core shots top and bottom that have been left unfixed 
Think we’ve maybe been spoiled in Val Thorens where twice now hired kit is near new.
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@larkim, definitely agree with you re Alpinresorts. We have 9 going to Ste Foy in March, and about half need ski's and boots and half just ski's/boards, and it's a fortune cheaper to use Alpin than anywhere else I've come across. Probably min 50 Euros cheaper per person means that we'll spend more in resort on food and drink too.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Chaletbeauroc, I think with Skiset the boots option is automatically selected, and you can remove it to bring the price down.
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Used Alpin for last few hires as struggle to justify the extra outlay to protect from the perception that the Alpin gear is all in a bin at the back of the shop behind all the shiny stuff people pay more for booking direct.
2 x 3 day hires back to back in Jan; Arc 1950 - Rossignol R10 ti (2023?), a bit scruffy but absolutely fine, Reberty - Atomic Mavericks in mint condition, looked like never been skied on.
Happy with both sets but no idea how much better or worse than the price bracket up/ down they were!! Who knows what I'd have got booking direct but my guess is may have been better, could've been worse...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I ignore the different categories and just hire the cheapest skis they offer Bronze/Blue suitable for beginner/intermediate etc.
They always ask what level you ski at anyway , like others have said you might end up with a pair a few seasons old or some that look brand new.Im not that good to notice the difference
They are always happy to upgrade you to a new pair for a few extra Euros.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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We always book via Alpin as the price difference is so huge. No complaints here. Last year, the binding on one of my sons skis stretched open so much, he couldn't click in. He skied on one ski right to the shop door (thankfully it was an easy blue back and he loves stuff like that). They took one look at and just swapped his set. No questions asked and no additional charges.
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Thanks all. Reassuring to know it's not just me that thinks the difference in pricing is immense.
I guess to an extent they partner with "lower end" or at least "cheaper" ski hire providers in resort; and the descriptions of what they are offering are linked to what the store normally sells anyway, so there should be no drop in quality vs what the store normally hires out - and if that is a low quality offering in the first place, AlpinResorts aren't contributing to that in a negative way.
I must admit I've wondered about just going for the bottom end stuff and then saying "black and off piste" when they ask how good you are. It does often feel like the technician just looks for a ski in the right size, and that they don't have in store the wide range that the store adverts would suggest that they do. But that's me being cynical. I do wish I was "better" at hiring this stuff, but in the end I've never really had an issue; it's more of a FOMO type attitude.
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You know it makes sense.
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I think a lot of the time it’s pot luck. I remember hiring skis once and probably slightly overstated my ability to the chap in the shop. My ski instructor for the week noticed them and said, “Nice skis” with a knowing nod. They were essentially just below a racing ski (definitely way above my ability).
As it turns out, these were a total blessing as it was the terrible drought at the end of 2016 so everything was just scraped ice. Those edges saved me quite a few times where others in my group were falling. I still wouldn’t be able to get the best from those skis even now though.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I spoke to my local rental shop a few years back, as I had a lot of guests staying with me and renting skis.
The deal they agreed with me was "print out the quote from the Internet, bring it in and we'll match it". They told me the commission for the various providers was about 30%, so they could easily match the price in person.
In the US a couple of weeks back, there's a new membership scheme at the Epic resorts, where a $50 annual fee means you're guaranteed top end 2025 skis for a price that equates to the cheapest skis - I was really impressed by the setup, and could see that working in Europe as well. Best of all - they had a valet service at each main lift, where you could drop your skis at the end of the day and collect again the next day.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| snowdave wrote: |
I spoke to my local rental shop a few years back, as I had a lot of guests staying with me and renting skis.
The deal they agreed with me was "print out the quote from the Internet, bring it in and we'll match it". They told me the commission for the various providers was about 30%, so they could easily match the price in person. |
I think this holds the most insight.
Ski hire shops are just balancing volume and margin, the sites like Alpin and even the big franchise operators (Skiset, intersport, Skimum, Sport 2000) are getting volume through the door. And the skis you get will roughly correspond to the level you book, but there will also be a degree of the shop just giving you what they have in the rack that morning. Some put more effort than other, pre-labelling skis with your name based on your booking details etc. vs just grabbing a set when you arrive; but I'd guess that is just down to how that shop does the organising of their stock rather than them doing anything more than looking at their stock and the level you booked and picking something in the right ball park.
Maybe Alpin charge less commission and that is why their prices are cheaper. Maybe Alpin just capture a different, more price conscious, market segment and therefore the sales though Alpin don't cannibalise their existing customer base so although the margins are lower they're still profitable so nice to have.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| larkim wrote: |
| I strongly suspect you're right. I suppose my issue is that I don't really understand the market I'm operating in. |
Fair enough. It's actually a very valid question. The answer is the real difference is in the base grind. Cheap French hire shops use very few base grinds. And very cheap, but quick waxing methods. And that's both something you'll feel vividly.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Imagine my excitement after several years of hiring skis in North America to be presented with the prices on the Alpinresort website! Just couldn’t resist.
The outlets used were the same as those used by the package companies. The skis I got were a good choice for me but cosmetically had definitely seen better days.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Tristero wrote: |
| larkim wrote: |
| I strongly suspect you're right. I suppose my issue is that I don't really understand the market I'm operating in. |
Fair enough. It's actually a very valid question. The answer is the real difference is in the base grind. Cheap French hire shops use very few base grinds. And very cheap, but quick waxing methods. And that's both something you'll feel vividly. |
This!
The challenge for the consumer is it can all be a bit random. Not all Intersports or all Skisets etc. treat their skis the same, and even then when you show up in store depends a lot on how your skis have been treated. This can lead you to thinking a specific ski make/model is amazing but in reality it is just how the shop services skis. If you luck into a good shop then its notable how many people in the group may say "these are the best ski's I've ever been given" and attribute that them being a Salomon XYZ or a Head ABC rather than just how the shop looks after their kit.
The key is noticing if you've got a pair in need of a service. Do you lose speed on flat bits vs others? You probably need to go back to the shop to ask for a wax. Do the skis struggle to hold an edge? They may feel too 'slippery' when turning, particularly when the snow is a bit more polished. Then you need the edges sharpening. Go back to the shop and ask for them to do it. Not to give you new skis because the model is probably fine, but to service the ones you have so you can feel the difference.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
| Alpinresorts website says the ski at their top end would be the "HEAD WC Rebels e.XSR" or equivalent |
That is in fact a 'mid level' ski, billed for intermediate to good (i.e 6..8 on a range of 1..10).
I wouldn't say it's top end, that would be the HEAD WC Rebels e-speed, but a good ski nonetheless. You would certainly feel the difference between that a beginner's ski, especially on hard/icy pistes, if the ski has been well maintained.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| bouquetin wrote: |
The challenge for the consumer is it can all be a bit random. Not all Intersports or all Skisets etc. treat their skis the same, and even then when you show up in store depends a lot on how your skis have been treated. This can lead you to thinking a specific ski make/model is amazing but in reality it is just how the shop services skis. If you luck into a good shop then its notable how many people in the group may say "these are the best ski's I've ever been given" and attribute that them being a Salomon XYZ or a Head ABC rather than just how the shop looks after their kit.
The key is noticing if you've got a pair in need of a service. Do you lose speed on flat bits vs others? You probably need to go back to the shop to ask for a wax. Do the skis struggle to hold an edge? They may feel too 'slippery' when turning, particularly when the snow is a bit more polished. Then you need the edges sharpening. Go back to the shop and ask for them to do it. Not to give you new skis because the model is probably fine, but to service the ones you have so you can feel the difference. |
I too think that the rental shop makes a huge difference. I've seen a technician at a large rental store just feeding a huge stack of skis into an automated servicing machine. I did not see him, at any point, changing the settings on the machine but he was putting a bunch of skis through that have different recommended base and edge angles. That will have a huge impact on how the skis feel and behave.
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