 Poster: A snowHead
|
Just watching some FIS slalom on the TV right now and was curious about slope steepness for slalom. What are we looking at?
Chat GPT tells me that they will use the steepest practical "piste".
So I'm thinking harakiri or something like that? Or is it more red gradient?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
@afterski, You can browse the list of pistes that have been rated as suitable for FIS races here, slaloms are usually at least on a red run.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
The homologisted pistes I know are red pistes. They are not especially steep but may have some steeper sections
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
@afterski, they did a night FIS in Chamonix a couple of weeks ago, it’s a relatively tame red.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
@under a new name, The Planards piste will have been water injected for the Samse races. It can be amusing watching people skiing down onto that run from Montenvers on their skimo kit when it has been prepared for racing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
Remember, they're trying to go as fast as possible down a course set to test their ability, which, as rjs points out, will have had water sprayed onto it to make it as icy as possible. I doubt many racers could race a black run that had ice all over it. That's one reason for a piste closure (see: the swiss wall)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@joffy69, There are plenty of race pistes that are graded as black. Using water injection, not just spraying it on the surface, stops it cutting up and means it is fairer for later starters.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Snow&skifan, January or December courses can't really be prepared months ahead... 
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
@under a new name, indeed, Flachau is a few days before, reprofiling the slope and injecting
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| johnE wrote: |
| The homologisted pistes I know are red pistes. They are not especially steep but may have some steeper sections |
I think the main pitch of Schladming is a black run, the few times I've skied it has been littered with bodies of people trying to get down.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@SnoodyMcFlude, yes it is, I did it 2 weeks ago, earlyish and quiet. Lovely
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
The Face is pretty punchy. Trying to pull some shapes down there in mid December should give you a clue!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
Wengen slalom is 72% at the steepest bit. When I was young we used to do it in ski school 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
It occurs to me that at least back in the day, early 90s that many competition slopes were "black" because of their use, not their actual steepness, e.g. pistes used for Womens' DH in Avoriaz.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
I did La Face (de Bellevarde) on a Christmas weekend after a FIS (or FFS?) race, and thought at the time that the good thing was that the piste preparation meant there were not that many moguls on the steeper part.
Same for La Verte (des Houches).
Not sure if they are used for slaloms, or only for Geant and Super G?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
Its interesting to see the progression, my nippers did a lot of race training in zinal, roughly when they were about 3 years into race training, the coaches move the ones with the right standard to do slalom gates up on the red/black (face?) at the top of sorebois. Usually there you also see a fair bunch of international teams training, and it is absolutely nuts to see in person their lvl, they just monster it. Its super interesting to see one of the things that separates the best slalom skiiers is often not their speed through the steeps, but their speed on flatter parts of the course.....
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
@coddlesangers, Face is a black run in Zinal. We trained on it for a weekend with Podium before the ISIA speedtest. I've also seen in Laurie Taylor's behind the brits videos that they've used it for training also.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
The slope used for the night Slalom at Madonna is the Miramonti, which is classed as a black and goes right into the west side of the village. Maximum 60%,
Average 27%, Length 470m, drop 180m. https://www.3trecampiglio.it/en/canalone-miramonti
The Gran Risa black into La Villa is used for the Alta Badia Giant Slalom. The blurb says "Along with the Podkoren 3 in Kranjska Gora, Slovenia, and the Chuenisbärgli in Adelboden, Switzerland, the Gran Risa is considered one of the three most technical and challenging giant slalom slopes on the World Cup circuit: its maximum gradient reaches 69%, with an average of 36%. Once prepared for races with the injection of high-pressure water into the snow, the already demanding Gran Risa transforms into a veritable ice chute! Length 1225m, drop 448m, Start: 1868 m Finish: 1420 m." The actual run starts at Club Moritzino at 2078m, finishes about 1410m and is 2.2km. OSM says max 37 deg or 76%. The last 1-200m is a flat run out to the lift so that makes sense.
@Snow&skifan, those stats are for the Adelboden GS, the slalom starts lower so averages 50%. I'm not sure what all those percentages are in degrees but they all sound like regular blacks.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
30%? I'd have to pole to get any speed. 60% is more like it but not exactly steep.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| patrick! wrote: |
I did La Face (de Bellevarde) on a Christmas weekend after a FIS (or FFS?) race, and thought at the time that the good thing was that the piste preparation meant there were not that many moguls on the steeper part.
Same for La Verte (des Houches).
Not sure if they are used for slaloms, or only for Geant and Super G? |
Face is used for Slalom. Zrinka Ljutic was training on it with floodlights in preparation for Courchevel last night...she won
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Fri 31-01-25 15:00; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
60% corresponds to 30 degrees, about the maximum red piste steepness whereas 30% is half that and corresponds to the average found on many red pistes. Blacks tend to be steeper but rarely go over 40 degrees. The red Cachette piste in Arc 1600 is homogolised for FIS races and has average Slope of 17° (31%) including a long gentle section at the bottom and a Max Slope of about 30° where the racing takes place.
It should be noted that slope gradients alone do not designate the colour of the piste but other features such as the sustained steepness and, of course, blacks are not bashed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| johnE wrote: |
| , of course, blacks are not bashed. |
Actually in many places other than France, this is not the case.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@johnE, blacks are bashed everywhere I go, albeit not every one every night
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
To convert º to % look up the tangent to the angle and multiply by 100 to make it a percentage.
10º = 17.6%
15º = 26.8%
20º = 36.4%
25º = 46.6%
30º = 57.7%
35º = 70%
40º = 83.9%
45º = 100%
50º = 119.2%
55º = 142.8%
Hemel indoor slope is 15º on the upper half and 10º on the lower half
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| patrick! wrote: |
I did La Face (de Bellevarde) on a Christmas weekend after a FIS (or FFS?) race, and thought at the time that the good thing was that the piste preparation meant there were not that many moguls on the steeper part.
Same for La Verte (des Houches).
Not sure if they are used for slaloms, or only for Geant and Super G? |
50
Face is used for Slalom. Zrinja Ljutic was training on it with floodlights in preparation for Courchevel last night...she won |
That's indeed a Slalom Special but isn't it in La Face in Meribel rather than in Val D'Isere?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@patrick!, Val. 15th December 2024, Henrik Kristofferson won. Part of the Criterium de la Premiere Neige
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| patrick! wrote: |
| That's indeed a Slalom Special but isn't it in La Face in Meribel rather than in Val D'Isere? |
The notoriously steep race piste Face is in Va d'Isere. It is actually called Face de Bellevarde.
There is also a piste called Face in Meribel, which was used for the Olympics once upon a time, and I think lots of other resorts have a Face but I can't find them right now.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
@snowball, thanks. My barometer for steep is the Flypaper. 42 degrees=90% feels steeper than everything else I’ve tried.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
one yeqr in St Anton they opened the red piste that took us back to Nasserein that they had been using for the ladies world cup for the week before.
it was(mainly hilarious) carnage, as no-one could stnd up on it let alone ski.
that was u til some sliding down on their bum/back "picked up" our 10ish year old daughter. and then they definitely couldnt stop.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| bouquetin wrote: |
| patrick! wrote: |
| That's indeed a Slalom Special but isn't it in La Face in Meribel rather than in Val D'Isere? |
The notoriously steep race piste Face is in Va d'Isere. It is actually called Face de Bellevarde.
There is also a piste called Face in Meribel, which was used for the Olympics once upon a time, and I think lots of other resorts have a Face but I can't find them right now. |
Thanks, that's what I was highlighting (and not just because I was just on Bellevarde two weekends ago) 
Anyways, I will leave racing to the kids and concentrate on après ski with the other parents.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| patrick! wrote: |
| I did La Face (de Bellevarde) on a Christmas weekend after a FIS (or FFS?) race, and thought at the time that the good thing was that the piste preparation meant there were not that many moguls on the steeper part. |
Years ago did something similar - after it had been watered for French race team training.
With hindsight I feel safer on something bumpy like The Swiss Wall - at least you can stop by wedging yourself behind a mogul!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| what...snow wrote: |
| My barometer for steep is the Flypaper. 42 degrees=90% feels steeper than everything else I’ve tried. |
Yes, that's an entertaining slope.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| bouquetin wrote: |
| patrick! wrote: |
| That's indeed a Slalom Special but isn't it in La Face in Meribel rather than in Val D'Isere? |
The notoriously steep race piste Face is in Va d'Isere. It is actually called Face de Bellevarde.
There is also a piste called Face in Meribel, which was used for the Olympics once upon a time, and I think lots of other resorts have a Face but I can't find them right now. |
Isn't the piste they use for slalom in Meribel a blue ?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| musher wrote: |
| bouquetin wrote: |
| patrick! wrote: |
| That's indeed a Slalom Special but isn't it in La Face in Meribel rather than in Val D'Isere? |
The notoriously steep race piste Face is in Va d'Isere. It is actually called Face de Bellevarde.
There is also a piste called Face in Meribel, which was used for the Olympics once upon a time, and I think lots of other resorts have a Face but I can't find them right now. |
Isn't the piste they use for slalom in Meribel a blue ? |
Someone more familiar with Meribel may be able to confirm, but I think the Stade piste that ends at Chaudanne is kind of ungraded. It’s not really marked on the piste map as a piste (no coloured line), it’s just an area zoned as “reserved racing area”. On openskimap it’s marked as a black. It’s certainly not a blue, and as far as I know it’s also never open to the public like some race pistes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| frejul wrote: |
| With hindsight I feel safer on something bumpy like The Swiss Wall - at least you can stop by wedging yourself behind a mogul! |
My knees say no! For myself, assuming properly edged skis, it's the other way around: on Bellevarde I stop where I want because there's no constraint on the path. So things like Mont Fort and Swiss Wall still scare me (especially with the kids waiting for me far ahead)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
