 Poster: A snowHead
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Going to Flaine/Samoens in a week for a ski trip and have a wide range of skiers in our group from semi-beginners to upper-intermediates. Can anyone give any insight into the relative difficulty of the blue and red pistes in Flaine (e.g. Tourmaline, Mephisto, Fred, Faust, etc) compared to other resorts? Is it likely the whole group will be able to handle all the blues and reds there, or are they more on the challenging/advanced side?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hi. Most blues are fairly similar with Cristal and Sepentine being particularly pleasant "cruisy" blues. Tourmaline is the return link run to Flaine and often gets cut up at the end of the day and has a couple of pinch points so you need to be a competent blue run skier for this. Depends on the experience of the "semi-beginners". Fred and Faust are decent reds with some steep parts but plenty of width. Mephisto is red higher up with a nice drop where you need to go quickly to ascend the following uphill part. The left hand side of the Flaine bowl (looking uphill) is easier than the right hand side but it is all quite compact and easy to keep meeting up with different ability skiers.
Have a good trip 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'd agree with the above but add that the red pistes that actually reach down into flaine are almost all quite tricky in the final approach as they get steeper, in cases very narrow, and extremely hard packed and polished at the moment. I'd advise less confident skiers to avoid almandine, topaze and the bottom half of faust. Note that turquoise joins the bottom of faust for a last steep pitch, very polished but reasonably wide
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I went to Flaine for a few days before Xmas with family - this was their 3rd trip (I've snowboarded for years but now ski). The following may be of use for any semi-beginners in your group lacking confidence.
Bear in mind there are hardly any greens in Flaine so there is not that much in the way of big wide cruisy runs that semi beginners love. The blues are fine in good weather and good snow - but lots of them seem to have steeper bits in places and my daughter (7yo) was a little intimidated at times particularly when the snow was a bit chopped up and/or visibility wasn't good. She made it all the way from top to bottom but I reckon there are defiitely better parts of the Grand Massif than Flaine until she is a little more confident.
We didn't make it there but have heard good things about neighbouring Les Carroz for semi-beginners and early intermediates..
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| nbt wrote: |
| I'd agree with the above but add that the red pistes that actually reach down into flaine are almost all quite tricky in the final approach as they get steeper, in cases very narrow, and extremely hard packed and polished at the moment. I'd advise less confident skiers to avoid almandine, topaze and the bottom half of faust. Note that turquoise joins the bottom of faust for a last steep pitch, very polished but reasonably wide |
Looking from village, the approaches on rhs at the bottom (getting back down to village level) generally challenge the circumspect skier. Look on the piste map for green piste "Pin" that can be entered from those collectively .... not immediately apparent in signage, but familiarity will that little route helps a great deal in using the good piste coming down but not freaking progressing skiers out at the end.
Visuals to take that route aren't "natural" but easy enough when you know where to look.
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Pretty much been said, but yeah, like anywhere there's quite a variation of difficulty dependent on snow conditions, but I think the full range of levels is well represented.
One or two spring to mind as boundary cases - the two runs from Lindars, red Fred and black Agate, both tend to the more difficult end of the grading, particularly in anything approaching icy conditions. Similarly the black Styx in the Gers bowl, although TBH if that's open I very rarely used the piste itself, but it can get mogulled up a bit and has some steep bits.
What else? Actually just had a look at the piste map and it seems to have changed a little, with the black Diamant Noir now extending almost all the way down to the Epicea restaurant, the bottom half of it used to be a red, I'm sure, which I was also going to mention as verging on the black. Which it now is.
EDIT: I just looked at the official piste map and it's still showing as a red, Almandine, which is how I remember it. Not sure why the first one I looked at was different, naybe they changed it then changed it back again? In any case. it can be a long slidey challenge in scraped or icy conditions.
Elsewhere there's a couple of very steep blacks as you drop over from Carroz to Samoens, one of which has a pitch I once measured at 42 degrees. But each of them have easier variations as well.
At the other end of the spectrum one of my favourite runs in the whole area is Marvel, through the trees down to Morillon village. Marked as a green, but I'd be a little hesitant of taking raw beginners on it, not least because of its length. Maybe a dark green, perhaps turquoise on a bad day.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Sun 19-01-25 11:40; edited 1 time in total
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| AliAfro wrote: |
I went to Flaine for a few days before Xmas with family - this was their 3rd trip (I've snowboarded for years but now ski). The following may be of use for any semi-beginners in your group lacking confidence.
Bear in mind there are hardly any greens in Flaine so there is not that much in the way of big wide cruisy runs that semi beginners love. The blues are fine in good weather and good snow - but lots of them seem to have steeper bits in places and my daughter (7yo) was a little intimidated at times particularly when the snow was a bit chopped up and/or visibility wasn't good. She made it all the way from top to bottom but I reckon there are defiitely better parts of the Grand Massif than Flaine until she is a little more confident.
We didn't make it there but have heard good things about neighbouring Les Carroz for semi-beginners and early intermediates.. |
From staying in all of GM villages, family skiing with children and various groups of dispersed skill  is of critique and comparison, not criticism as such.
Flaine, easiest of them to walk out onto snow and ski for all levels. Most provision of wide gentle blues are here. Obviously vis and localised conditions play more of prominent part to very early skill. But I feel that its skills not piste topography as such that limits the skier. The other villages don't match this.
Les Carroz, good learner provision one gondola ride up, extends along the spine of a ridge and with various shorter lifts can all be used. Early skills return to village id be more cautious about, but gondola return entirely realistic.
The run (all along that ridge) from Tete d Saix point right down into LC is a very enjoyable and long piste, bottom of that in approach to LC will freak the nervous. Nursery lopes along some are good for that, but you'll get "pacy" skiers travelling the whole route and mixed in at some points.
From your experience of F I'd say you'd find this more challenging to facilitate.
Samoëns 1600, decent beginner provision locally, but more challenging at top near TdS high point. Gradient and busy piste that nervous will not relish generally.
Morillon 1100 (our favourite to stay along with Flaine) generally good provision of easy piste with "Marvel" green being a high point to development in gently building skills. Good blue and Red runs too. But outside that green the piste generally is used and with less smooth surface available throughout the day
To emphasise, comparison not criticism. We know it all well and kids spent very good formative ski years there.
Also to emphasise, if Flaine is a struggle, then skills acquisition should be the focus. You'll need that rasing to move around here over the whole area.
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@ski3 I get what you are saying - my 9yo son really enjoyed the blues at Flaine, so yes -it really does depend on ability level.
Also the weather and conditions certainly didnt help my daughter - for comparison, the year before we went to Avoriaz and in the sunny weather with good snow my daughter was speeding down the wide greens - I guess my point was that there just aren't that many wide open gentle green runs like that in Flaine - but once you are comfortable on the blues then its great!
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I think it's worth repeating @nbt's point about the reds which reach down into Flaine (right hand side of bowl looking upwards) being fairly difficult especially when they firm up. Not for a semi-beginner - but the wide area from Flaine forum down to Front de neige is ideal on day 1 morning. It now has a free enclosed carpet lift.
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@billb, Any red that is suitable for a "semi beginner" should not be labelled red. Those over on that side are proper reds, that's all.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Chaletbeauroc, oh absolutely, I agree. But the OP had asked about reds as well so I was just trying to give a general impression of the Flaine bowl.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| billb wrote: |
| @Chaletbeauroc, oh absolutely, I agree. But the OP had asked about reds as well so I was just trying to give a general impression of the Flaine bowl. |
So if most of the group is pretty comfortable on East Coast US blues (slopes between 10-23 degrees), would you think they could handle all the blues and maybe the upper reds (e.g. Fred, top section of Faust), or are they likely to struggle?
Trying to figure out if we'll even be able to get the group over to Flaine from the villages if tourmaline is as difficult as implied.
Thanks!
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@sabski, Tourmaline (only real connection into Flaine from GM generally) doesn't present a problem, certainly for gradient. It's a nice rolling and wide piste to ski.
As it comes down into the tree line there's steeper pitch (historical difficulty was here) that's been extensively widened to facilitate traversing in passing through there. That wouldn’t present issue against the degree you've noted. Lingering reputation larger than current actuality, its really not a frightener, just more deliberate than cruising along without much effort.
Fred, not bad at all, but advise a reconnaissance run to check. It's not missing that much if you don't use it as sitting out on a spur to main area. Not a show stopper to a visit within Flsine bowl.
Faust, again not "severe" in red terms. Care approach would be Cristal blue with option half way down to use Belzèbuth red in sampling, then return to top and try another along that facet of the bowl.
Which village are you planning to stay in ?
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You know it makes sense.
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| ski3 wrote: |
@sabski, Tourmaline (only real connection into Flaine from GM generally) doesn't present a problem, certainly for gradient. It's a nice rolling and wide piste to ski.
As it comes down into the tree line there's steeper pitch (historical difficulty was here) that's been extensively widened to facilitate traversing in passing through there. That wouldn’t present issue against the degree you've noted. Lingering reputation larger than current actuality, its really not a frightener, just more deliberate than cruising along without much effort.
Fred, not bad at all, but advise a reconnaissance run to check. It's not missing that much if you don't use it as sitting out on a spur to main area. Not a show stopper to a visit within Flsine bowl.
Faust, again not "severe" in red terms. Care approach would be Cristal blue with option half way down to use Belzèbuth red in sampling, then return to top and try another along that facet of the bowl.
Which village are you planning to stay in ? |
This is all extremely helpful! We're staying in Samoens, but hoping to spend a lot of time up Flaine in as it's the most different scenery wise (above treeline high Alpine) from what we can get near where we live. So looking for the best high Alpine views from runs that the whole group can do.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@sabski, What @ski3 said. Coming over from Samoëns to Flaine you have to ski Tourmaline. It'll be fine especially in the morning. Longish blue, very wide higher up, then takes a right and left where it narrows but is OK for a blue run skier. When you return to Samoëns you ski down Dolomie initially (after taking the Grand Vans chair from Flaine Forêt) - this is a steepish (in places) blue but wide. If anyone is having a lesson the instructor will give you general advice and information of course.
In Flaine, if you take the cable car (DMC) to the top (Grandes Platières) you get a great view across to Mont Blanc on a clear day - not to be missed, plus there's a cafe there. You can ski down to Flaine from there on all blue runs if you want.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@sabski, I went to Flaine at Easter, all round the blues and reads were pretty good for early intermediates. Specifics are below.
The blue runs from the Desert Blanc chair to the left of the Flaine piste map are wide forgiving blues with typically good snow. Only issue here is visibility because above the tree line. The two reds (Belzebuth and Lucifer) under the lift are relatively easy. Be careful of not dropping below Tanzanite blue run or you'll be committed to the steeper red runs in the centre of the resort.
The middle of the Flaine piste map is more challenging because you get fuelled into Faust, Almandine and Jade all of which have more intimidating steep sections at the bottom. Almandine is a killer for this because it has a lovely easy upper section you can see from the turn off and has an out of sight steep (and sometimes icy) section towards the end. I found it super easy to take a wrong turn and end up stuck on one of these. This is more of a risk on the right hand side of the piste map because of how the runs split off.
On the right side of the piste map stay on the blue Mephisto and do not turn off right too soon. If you do you'll end up on the tricky middle section.
Pay attention when turning off the main gondola (Grandes Platieres) if you take too sharp a left you will end up on the Diamant Noir black run. The upper section of this run looks like an easy blue but it is a challenging black run with a very steep bump section through a narrow set of cliffs (not visible from the top). In poor visibility it is possible to mistake the black post markers for blue and end up stuck half way down the run at the top of the steep section. My son and his friend made this mistake but thankfully we caught them and they only had to pole out for about 100m back to Serpentine. If in doubt stay to the right of Serpentine as you come off the gondola and read the piste markers when turning left.
Getting from Samoens to Flaine should be fine as others have said. The Dolomie and Tourmaline blues will be fine first thing because they will be freshly pisted.
I would suggest giving yourselves plenty of time to ski back from Flaine to Samoens because the steeper section on Dolomie will be bumpy later so you'll want to take your time. Also the top of the Tete Des Saix peak has a lot of pistes going in all directions so it's easy to take a wrong turn, you need to be careful to take your time and make sure you get onto the Dahu blue run. The black runs in that sector are long and steep and you could easily find yourself committed if you rush and make a wrong turn.
Hope you have a good trip!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I think the Lucifer red run is generally left un-groomed, at least when I've been there. There was always a big "piste non-dammee" sign so hard to go that way accidentally if you don't want to ski that kind of thing but worth being aware of.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@bouquetin, Back in the day during periods of continuous snowfall they would alternate, pisting demon one day, lucifer the next, faust the next, or some such sequence, as well as the slight variations at the top, such that there would always be a freshly groomed run down and hopefully one with new snow on it. So you just need to look carefully to find which is which on any given day.
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@Chaletbeauroc, I’ve been twice over the last 4 years and both times Lucifer was not groomed and had clearly not been groomed for a while if at all. It wasn’t groomed and then mogled, it was heavily trafficked off piste type snow. Even on the flat bit at the top where it wouldn’t mogul you could tell the snow was compressed by skiers rather than having seen a grooming machine in a long while.
Maybe coincidence but it certainly wasn’t on daily rotation as the other reds were all groomed every night.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Just got back from Flaine.
Faust was my favourite run, fairly quiet and well groomed and wide, not that steep. The hardest off all the reds is the last hundred meters that can have hard packed ice etc. supposed to be snowing today mind.
Everything was covered well but snow better at the top. Bottom runs in the pinch pointshave snow but do get cut up and slightly mogeling by the afternoon. The reds get steep and a tad patchy down the middle.
More to follow
Fred was very quiet when I went. Quite hard packed snow, but is at the top of the mountain. The two man lift to get up takes ages from the aup de Veran bubble lift. There's a black going the other way that was shut just more like an off piste run with rocks etc that people were going down. Way too hard for me.
Some of the lifts in flaine are quick and so
me are dog slow.
It takes a fair while to get between Flaine and samones and there are pinch points.
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The blue from the main buble grand players is serpentine or Cristal, usual blue affairs. You can lap them via the desert blanc lift. If you go all the way to the bottom the only blue is serpentine from that side so gets busy and a bit choppy nothing unusual but to be noted.
The tetes du Verde lift is quick but only takes you half way up. You can get to the top via diamant noir but annoyingly you can't go to the
Mephisto side without walking up for 200.yards.
Note I did find flaine quote cold in the morning and preffered to ski over the other side. It can also get quite windy.
I enjoyed the runs down from aup du Veran, nothing that difficult tbh but the reds a bit patchy/hard packed at the bottom annoyingly the button lapiaz was shut.
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To get back over you have to either ski down serpentine into the flaine forum for the grand vans lift, or take the somewhat strange telebenne lift which is a slow standing up two man lift that you have to walk on and then walk off backwards.
You the. Take the grand. And lift and ski down dolomie which is a wide short blue, but gets busy with people snow ploughing etc. I crashed here avoiding someone's mobile phone! You then take the slow corbalanche lift up. All this is a bit of a faff to be honest. Not difficult and there are signposts all the time for the towns, also the different lifts and then the runs in smaller print.
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I really enjoyed the arolle green here "in the middle" and it was deserted. You can lap it using the slow le lac lift which is really for people parked at the lake. I didn't like portet much.
At tete des saxies you have loads of options. Marvel is a must do, although it's long via pierce de niege. My wife's favourite that one and there's a nice cafe at the bottom. The problem here is that it's actually quite hard to get accross to samoens or back up the top of the mountain.
You have to go up sairon. Ski back down to get to biollaires. Then ski down Les chars which is quite hard packed at the end. Then go up coulouvrier. To get back to tetes des saix.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Ok the samoens side I really enjoyed dahu and marmotte. It felt much more pleasant on this side of the mountain to me from Flaine.
Then I had to get back to Flaine, via dolomie where I crashed avoiding a phone (the red here sortilege is unpisted but I did watch a esf lesson ski down it with kids ) and then up vernant to tourmaline. Tourmaline is fine but on my first day I was a bit wobbly going down it because it was busy especially at lunch time and end of day.
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Im Sure you'll have a great time. I would describe the resort as fairly straight forward skiing. There is nothing that hard on the reds. Some are just unpisted really...that's the same for the blacks, more off piste really and not for me except combe de feret which I n
tried and didn't enjoy.
Good luck!
Do report back on what people found easy and what they found hard!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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From experience today - its critical to pick your time as it was very busy first and last thing on home runs especially blues and v hard pack with some lumpy stuff between.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@llywelyn1984, You can ski directly down to the coulouvrier lift from the top of the Sairon or ski back to Samoens from Morillon via Les Carroz and Tete des saix express.
The Corbalanche lift is only open from 3:00 in the afternoon at the moment so if coming back from Flaine to Samoens earlier you have to go down the Portet.
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@bouquetin, I think that’s just coincidence. We have skied regularly in Flaine for many years and I’ve seen it pisted and unpisted.
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You know it makes sense.
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Paccoty (red) to the bottom of the Coulouvrier lift / Morillon is hectic when not great coverage. Even intermediate boarders with us were sticking to the edge, the steepest sections were like glass.
Am not particularly well-travelled, but this seemed like the steepest red I’d been on ever. Only for good+ skiers
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@_SNOWHE_AD_S, was this half term week? When we went earlier in the season paccoty wasn’t open so didn’t manage to try it.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Yes was Tuesday just gone. A few families with youngish kids waiting above the steepest section trying to figure how best to proceed. Was closed the next day. Not recommended
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