 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi guys,
I've always had issues with rental ski boots causing pain on the bottom of my feet, which in turn causes pain in my third and fourth toes. Usually, this is annoying, but completely manageable.
To try and solve this once and for all I went and got some ski boots fitted at a reputable shop before my trip this year, with a custom footbed, moulded liner etc.
However, I'm on day 1 of skiing in Samoens and have had to finish early for the day as my boots are causing me absolute agony. The pain in the balls of my feet is the worst it has ever been, so much so that I was shouting in pain on a chairlift before I finally got the boots off just now.
Is this anything a boot fitter in Samoens might be able to help with, or should I just get a pair of rentals for the week and take my boots back to the fitter once home in the UK?
I have done some googling and seems like it could be Morton's neuroma, but hard to be sure.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@kebeliever101, might be a different issue, but worked a bit for me... try them without socks (sounds mad I know). Was having the same issue last season and instructor told me to try no socks so I could continue skiing. Was much better. I now use the thinnest denier knee high tights I can find.
I also went to a reputable fitter to see if they could help but he just knocked on of the toe areas out slightly, otherwise they fitted fine. They were quite a bit stiffer than my previous beginner boots so I wonder if that was the issue.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@kebeliever101, My thoughts would be these:
- New boots can be pretty tight for the first 3 or 4 days. They will loosen
- Hire boots can often need cranked shut.....so I say this just in case you are overtightening them
- It is vital that the 2 clips over the toes are only tightened enough to keep them closed
- Be precise on how you put them on and do them up. There is very much a correct way to do this
- It can do no harm to have the fit checked by a local bootfitter if necessary
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| Old Fartbag wrote: |
- It is vital that the 2 clips over the toes are only tightened enough to keep them closed
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This!!
Don't crank down the 2 latches across the foot, you should adjust them so as to be able to close them with just your pinkie.
If you crank them down tight, you'll cut of the blood supply and give yourself tremendous pain.
The upper latches around the shin need to grip more firmly and any power strap around the cuff also. Ensure the tongue is correctly positioned onto shin bone and the boot cuff wraps around the outside of it.
Thinner technical socks are generally better than thick 'ski tubes', esp if boots are a bit new and need wearing in a bit.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Take the footbed out? There was a very good thread on the topic around Christmas.
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| Nadenoodlee wrote: |
| Take the footbed out? |
Worth making sure that the footbed fits in the width of the shell without getting distorted.
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@kebeliever101, I have certainly been in that place with the vast majority of boots that I've ever owned and it sounds like a lack of circulation. I would recommend taking your socks off straight after you take the boots off and examining your foot for any particularly red patches and or depressed areas with strong weave marks from the sock pressed into the skin. If those areas are on the top instep or top inner side of the foot, that is probably the problem area that is cutting off circulation.
In my case, it is due to the navicular bone being too protruded and I need a very specific boot stretch done to accommodate it, sometimes with an extended second clip fitted also. All of my recent boots have been custom shell and the standard custom fitting procedure isn't sufficient to address it; it has to be done after the normal fitting. I also use zipfits and custom insoles. For years, I thought the issue was a lack of width across the toe area (because that's where the pain presents) when it never has been, it was a lack of width at the top of the instep, above the arch.
I can't say it's the same for you but it's worth checking.
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I have Morton's Neuroma. It could be that your toes aren't able to spread out. However, the main symptoms of neuroma are usually felt in the 3/4 toes, just above the affected nerve.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Pasigal, we think my wife has that, how did you alleviate the issues?
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| Pasigal wrote: |
| I have Morton's Neuroma. It could be that your toes aren't able to spread out. However, the main symptoms of neuroma are usually felt in the 3/4 toes, just above the affected nerve. |
| kitenski wrote: |
| @Pasigal, we think my wife has that, how did you alleviate the issues? |
That was one of the suggested possible causes for my foot pain. I had a specific stretch done to my footbed to address/test it - a raised dome pushed into it from underneath about the size of a teaspoon just behind the 3/4 toes to keep the metatarsals splayed apart. It wasn't my cause in the end but sounds possible here so definitely worth trying.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Without knowing exactly what you feel, I think I have exactly the same thing and have also researched Mortons neuroma.
I've sat at the side of the piste before now and taken my boots off to relive the pressure/pain. All I can suggest is to take your boots off when possible to prevent the build up of pressure, for me this might be in a small gondola when only the group has to endure the the sexy foot aroma or the morning coffee stop. We often ski with my parents so the latter is a given.
I've had this for around 15 years now and the above is the only way I can control it, and some days are worse than others.
And yes, I'm doing my boots up correctly...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I swapped out my custom footbeds low profile footbeds and also got some really thin socks. I've gone back to regular socks and footbeds now the boots have broken in.
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@kebeliever101, I'd suggest you check simple possibilities first, like overtightening as suggested by @Old Fartbag. There are plenty of videos covering boot fastening on YouTube.
After that I'd try a boot fitter in resort. Someone might be able to recommend one there.
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You know it makes sense.
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OH had Morton’s Neuroma, cortisone injections controlled it for a while, she managed two Moonwalk marathons, but ultimately she had surgery, 10 years later she thinks she has another one forming. When the neuroma kicked off a week before one of her charity walks CEM provided some really useful advice for my non-skier wife.
It might be worth you contacting your bootfitter while you are in resort, since he might be able to advise of an easy fix or may have know someone who can help in resort.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Je suis un Skieur, the boot lab did something similar (the lump on the foot bed) which seemed to make a huge difference.
I’m just interested in what others had done as we need to do similar to her walking boots!
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Poster: A snowHead
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@kitenski, surely you just put custom insoles in her walking boots with the same modification then?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Je suis un Skieur, yes they stuck something on top of her footbed so we are planning on doing the same, but was interested in what others had done.
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Many thanks all for the advice!
I'm fairly sure it's not an overtightening issue, and I already wear the thinnest smartwool socks I could find. This issue has been happening for years - it has just been unbelievably bad today with my new boots (and first ever pair of fitted boots).
The pain extends into my toes - specifically the 3rd and 4th toe, which is why I am wondering about MN.
I plan to get a pair of rentals tomorrow with a bit more volume for my foot, just so I can enjoy the skiing. Will take my boots to a boot fitter here if I get the chance (thanks for the recommendation in Sixt, Rachel) or wait until I get home.
Have never been in so much pain skiing as I was today, so extremely wary about putting my boots back on (even if adjusted) only to write off another day
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@kebeliever101, as I read your initial post, I thought 'Morton's Neuroma'. I used to get it really badly, especially in walking boots. I went to a foot specialist who fitted me with orthotics that have a lump in them, like @Je suis un Skieur, mentions, and it has helped massively. I have 2 sets of orthotics, one pair lives in my ski boots (because I teach, so I wear them very regularly), and a second pair that get moved between trainers and walking boots.
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| Je suis un Skieur wrote: |
| In my case, it is due to the navicular bone being too protruded and I need a very specific boot stretch done to accommodate it, sometimes with an extended second clip fitted also. All of my recent boots have been custom shell and the standard custom fitting procedure isn't sufficient to address it; it has to be done after the normal fitting. |
I skied for a good while and had boot issues on the top of my foot, I snowboard now so boot fit is less of an issue. Does the navicular bone show up as an obvious lump sticking above the line of ankle to toe, a real protrusion say mid to a little foreward of the arch (but obviously on the top). Just wondering because my last few ski trips it caused me real pain…..
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| Je suis un Skieur wrote: |
| In my case, it is due to the navicular bone being too protruded and I need a very specific boot stretch done to accommodate it, sometimes with an extended second clip fitted also. All of my recent boots have been custom shell and the standard custom fitting procedure isn't sufficient to address it; it has to be done after the normal fitting. |
I skied for a good while and had boot issues on the top of my foot, I snowboard now so boot fit is less of an issue. Does the navicular bone show up as an obvious lump sticking above the line of ankle to toe, a real protrusion say mid to a little foreward of the arch (but obviously on the top). Just wondering because my last few ski trips it caused me real pain…..
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I have had this (or similar) issue for years and have spent a hell of a lot of money on boot modifications. I have a high arch and protruding navicular. I have had it so bad that I’ve had to take the boot off on the slopes in a blizzard while leaning on my mate, as well as walking back to the chalet in just my socks after one particularly painful time! It seems to affect me the worst on the warmer days, presumably due to foot swelling.
What ultimately works for me is regularly removing the boots - just for a minute or two - whenever we stop for a break, to give the foot a quick massage and basically give my feet a break.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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As I said above, it's the only way I can stop it building up.
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When everything else fails .....Look at the person in the boots.... instead of a blame game or a credit card fix.
This is in regard to personal flexion and flexibility ,range of motion at the ankle and flexon in the lower leg chain specifically to ski .
Foot pain is not always a single clearcut medical condition or equipment issue but can be partly or wholly a lack of ski specific training and stretching to ski in the lower leg chain.
Posts are in the dozens about it from CEM
Some people need more specific stretching and training than others and getting this done can require a great level of consistancy over a period of time because it can be a very real issue ....
You could try increasing the boot volume during the first days week etc alongside loads of ski specific stretching in the lower chain then eventually go back to your fitted boots .
Sometimes a reduced volume footbed helps abit ie provides a bit more foot room to do abit more milage.
I have played with this in the extreme doing two month trips for over 20 years so in my case it was the tool in the boots .
Yes I had a medical condition in the anterior tibialis but the answer is still extensive stretching and specific training .
Bootfit can be and is often a secondary issue so it shouldnt be ignored as its very important but its the consistant ski specific stretching training thats the daddy .
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Wed 15-01-25 21:43; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I've had similar symptoms that were not resolved by all kinds of custom fitting and even custom moulded boots, over a couple of decades. YMVV, but for me the best solution was the Nordica rear entry boots. Not pain free, but a much lower level. If you exhaust other possibilities, they might be worth a try.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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sorry, deleted accidental double post
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Wed 15-01-25 18:06; edited 2 times in total
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Nordica HF (rear entry) are a relatively widish boot, although the latest Pro version is a couple of millimetres narrower. This seems to rule our rear entry boots for a chunkable size of the prospective market. Why don’t boot manufacturers produce their more popular models in a greater range of widths?
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You know it makes sense.
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Thanks all for the comments and advice.
Had a great few days skiing with rental boots in the end (30.5 MV, as opposed to my custom moulded 29.5 LV boots), albeit still with some pain on the ball of my feet and in the third and fourth toes. Much more manageable.
Changing resorts now but will be getting another pair of rentals for the rest of the week.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@kebeliever101, I have had similar sounding pain in the ball of my right foot behind the 3rd/fourth toes (which worsened as the day progressed) - this was resolved by the boot fitter stretching the shell width behind the little toe (it took three sessions to widen enough to remove the pain) - so I would suggest talking to a boot fitter in your next resort.
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Poster: A snowHead
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If it’s possible you could try contacting Solutions 4 Feet in Bicester. They are orthotists as well as boot fitters so experts in all types of foot issues. I had an amazing experience when I visited them.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| kebeliever101 wrote: |
Hi guys,
I've always had issues with rental ski boots causing pain on the bottom of my feet, which in turn causes pain in my third and fourth toes. Usually, this is annoying, but completely manageable.
To try and solve this once and for all I went and got some ski boots fitted at a reputable shop before my trip this year, with a custom footbed, moulded liner etc. |
It's good that you've found a solution, at least for now.
Care to expand on "reputable shop"? Was it a specialist boot fitter or one of the chains? Did you explain that you'd always had this pain from boots do they vould use that inf to pick suitable boots and or adjust them with that in mind?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Get some Sidas ultra thin socks, you may find that the liners pack out after a few days skiing so you can revert to slightly thicker socks. This always works for me
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@kebeliever101, I had a similar problem with some boots a few years ago.
I spent the whole afternoon having some boots fitted at a so called reputable dealer.
They were fine when I took skiing for the first time ... for about 2 hours.
After that they were pure hell as you described.
I put up with them for a couple of holidays but the same every day...
2 hours ok, then hell.
These were a 3 clip design that I have not seen since.
It was obvious that was cutting off the nerves and/or blood supply below the ankle.
I've had issues with other boots since. So it looks like I'll never learn.
The current solution is to have custom boot liners. I've never felt so comfy in my boots and its much easier to get my boots on rather than squeeze my odd shaped foot into the regular "tongue liner". But I can't see it it staying good forever.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Thanks all for the advice. Got through the rest of the week with rental boots and had a fantastic trip in the end!
I've since spoken to a GP who also thought Morton's Neuroma could be a possibility and has referred me on to a podiatrist. I will get their take before getting any modifications to my boots made.
| Quote: |
kebeliever101 wrote:
Hi guys,
I've always had issues with rental ski boots causing pain on the bottom of my feet, which in turn causes pain in my third and fourth toes. Usually, this is annoying, but completely manageable.
To try and solve this once and for all I went and got some ski boots fitted at a reputable shop before my trip this year, with a custom footbed, moulded liner etc.
It's good that you've found a solution, at least for now.
Care to expand on "reputable shop"? Was it a specialist boot fitter or one of the chains? Did you explain that you'd always had this pain from boots do they vould use that inf to pick suitable boots and or adjust them with that in mind?
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The shop I went to was Profeet in Fulham. I was very impressed with them and did explain this issue, but the boots felt great when having them fitted in store and when wearing them in at home.
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the more you wear them, the more they will pack out, the more comfortable they will get....
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| endoman wrote: |
| the more you wear them, the more they will pack out, the more comfortable they will get.... |
To a point... they have to be fitted well to start with.
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| kebeliever101 wrote: |
| The shop I went to was Profeet in Fulham. I was very impressed with them and did explain this issue, but the boots felt great when having them fitted in store and when wearing them in at home. |
Thankfully that means you'll have their fit guarantee so you can go back as many times as it takes and they'll work things out. Only lasts 2 years though so you might want to invest some money in a trip to either the MK or Hemel snow dome to test them out after they've been tweaked so you're good to go when your next holiday comes around, not using Day 1 as a ski boot test day and possibly finding yourself in the same position you were this year.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| kebeliever101 wrote: |
Thanks all for the comments and advice.
Had a great few days skiing with rental boots in the end (30.5 MV, as opposed to my custom moulded 29.5 LV boots), albeit still with some pain on the ball of my feet and in the third and fourth toes. Much more manageable.
Changing resorts now but will be getting another pair of rentals for the rest of the week. |
Here's a question: do you have hotspots/pressure points, or more of a general feeling of your feet being crushed? You mention pain in the balls of your feet - is this the sole, as if being pressed from underneath, or laterally, as if the foot is being squeezed from both sides across the ball?
Subject to those answers, if you're in discomfort in your fitted boots but ok in some rental boots that are one size up, I would hazard a guess that you simply need to be persistent and bed in your new boots, esp if you don't have hot spots/pressure points. It sounds as if it's a case of simply having not enough room in the boot until the liner beds in a bit. As others have said, try no socks, or ladies ankle length tights. Try removing the footbed (though if it is providing necessary support, this could be one step forward and two back). ALWAYS unclip your boots when you're not skiing - from the moment you pull up in the lift queue to the moment you push off at the top.
Take your boots to Ski Bartlett in Uxbridge when you get back for them to have a look.
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Just an update - I managed to see a podiatrist this afternoon who diagnosed me with Morton's Neuroma.
Recommended to receive injections prior to my next ski trip and to have my boots widened around the ball of my foot and toe box.
Hopefully that will do the trick!
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