Off to Tignes again this year. My kids (14 and 12) will be pestering me again to take them down Black runs. They're perfectly capable, the issue is I don't particularly enjoy them these days (whilst also being perfectly capable of getting down them)
We've been down Trolles/Johan Clarey and Descente. Mainly because I could see that they looked fine from the gondolas. Got caught out down Myosotis last year. Didn't think a red would trouble me, then past the point I'd committed, I was faced with a bazillion moguls with no way of escape. I got down but hated it! (Although didn't think a green would trouble me until I took that hideous green down Daille that was spent cursing and trying to avoid bodies everywhere - they appear to have sensibly removed from the piste map this year?)
Are there other blacks in Tignes/Val D that are steep but not packed full of moguls? I really regret not trying to learn to love moguls but, now I'm pushing 50 and my knees are creaky, I think that ship has sailed. So I'd like to take the kids down some blacks so they are happy but I'd like to enjoy them too!
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Depending on time of year, Rhone Alpes and Combe Martin down the front of the Solaise are usually not bad options and you can get a pretty good eyeball on the way up in the gondola. They tend to get skied less than the red M and as a result are often in better condition.
The last bit of Rhone Alpes can be a bit scraped and narrow but not usually mogals. Combe Martin can be bumpier but if it's bad you can pick up the Traversee du Rooney and pick up the last bit of M.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Whatever the run, it will be smoothest early in the day. Trade your going down those runs for them getting up early enough to make it happen!
Steep runs bump out because nearly everyone is constantly on the brakes, creating moguls. Better to create them than to navigate them once created.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I don't recall any moguls on La Face a fortnight ago. Shame really as it was (one pitch was) terrifying and the moguls would have made a nice change from the sheet ice. I should have paid attention to the sign at the top of the pitch that said 'danger/gefahr/pericolo/uwaga'.
After all it is free
After all it is free
adithorp wrote:
Never seen moguls on LeFace, though I've only been there between for start of the season on xmas/NewYear.
I have in March. Big moguls. I enjoyed watching them from the Sun Bar terrace but had no desire to ski them.
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Look to see each day if Sache is open and pisted - it wasn't open over NY, but we have skied it with kids at Easter before when it was newly pisted and it was glorious. Not to be attempted if not newly pisted though; it's very long.
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Also the black above double M - I can't remember the name.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
From the piste maps, Black = "Very difficult"
If a black run is pisted flat, it is no longer "Very difficult" and no longer a Black run.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@SatsumasRock, obviously you shouldn't allow your kids to push you down runs which are too difficult for you, and not enjoyable. But I understand the problem! Might it be possible for you to tell them you will arrange some private lessons for them and ask the instructor to assess their abilities, tidy things up, and do some difficult runs if she thinks they can do so safely? Or put them in a high level group, where they should get challenged.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Thank you all!
@Origen it's not so much that they are too difficult for me, I can do them it's just my sense of mortality keeps increasing each year and I enjoy them less! My husband can't do black runs so it falls to me for the next few years until they're old enough to go off by themselves! Although that's a really good idea re lessons. I'm planning on booking them some private lessons so will speak with the instructor.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
The colour definition for slopes is merely a guide and the weather and time of day are imo, more as important.
On many days Trolles / J Clarey is an absolute joy, perhaps a bit busy and tighter at the final pitch.
Meanwhile the bottom of the nominally blue Lac run can be a chopped up mess with big lumps and bumps in the pm - even half decent skiers get caught up with groups of people stopping all over the piste.
@SatsumasRock, You mention the green down to La Daille - handily named "Verte"
It technically finishes at the point just below Folie Douce. There are then a choice of runs into Daille, I suspect you took the run past the Triffolet restaurant which can be a bit busy and hard packed at the bottom.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@SatsumasRock, If you're off to Tignes, hook up with either TDC or Ultimate for a private lesson. I can honestly say these two companies have given the best lessons I've ever had.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:
I can do them it's just my sense of mortality keeps increasing each year and I enjoy them less!
Yes, that exactly describes me in my final years of skiing (have now retired, I'm 77). I can endorse TDC for lessons though my experience s some years ago. Haven't experienced Ultimate. But if you're going in school holidays it might already be too late to book lessons - there are lots of threads at the moment where people are scrabbling round to find something.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
swoafs wrote:
Look to see each day if Sache is open and pisted - it wasn't open over NY, but we have skied it with kids at Easter before when it was newly pisted and it was glorious. Not to be attempted if not newly pisted though; it's very long.
Must admit I wouldn't attempt the Sache without knowing it's exact state. It's a lovely run and for the most part very straightforward but towards the bottom there is a narrow section which bumps up very quickly and could be quite challenging if not confident on bumps.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
tangowaggon wrote:
From the piste maps, Black = "Very difficult"
If a black run is pisted flat, it is no longer "Very difficult" and no longer a Black run.
Don't really agree with this, there are quite a few runs around the Alps that are used for races are kept mogul free but are slick and often challenging. La Face is often an example
I really regret not trying to learn to love moguls but, now I'm pushing 50 and my knees are creaky, I think that ship has sailed.
It's never too late. You need to understand that 'creaky' knees, or worse, should not be an issue on moguls if you learn how to ski them properly. Watch a good mogul skier and it may appear that their knees are taking a pounding, as if the legs are acting like a car's shock absorbers and soaking up a lot of impact, but in fact that is not the case; rather, the movement of the knees is there to ensure the smoothest possible ride, maintaining as much as possible a consistent pressure through the skis, exactly the opposite of how it appears.
How to achieve that? Ah well, that's a whole different can of worms, isn't it? I'm no mogul god but these days do slightly more view them as an opportunity rather than a necessary evil, which used to be the case. One of the key take-aways from getting up to the required standard for the BASI L3 tech was that there are many different techniques, more or less suitable to different sized and shaped moguls, different steepness, different busy-ness. But none of them should hurt.
Yes, I have pretty knackered knees too, one of them is a couple of years overdue for some surgery when I can be arsed to get around to it, but in the meantime it serves as a reminder of when I'm not skiing my best - if I'm getting pain then I'm not skiing smoothly enough, need to do better. And this is at least a part of the 'opportunity' I mention - always striving to improve, always trying to find a better, more efficient, less painful way of skiing any given situation. Oh, and the Ski-Mojo helps. A lot.
Sorry to diverge - as for the question you were actually asking I see several people have tried to address this by pointing out that it's not a question of red, black or blue, moguls can build up on any of them. True. But I'm sure you can see the irony of wanting to find difficult runs that are easy.
You may be able to mitigate the level of difficulty by judicious route choice, though. One of the reasons moguls build up so fast is that skiers tent to follow other skiers' lines, which you can see whenever there's been a fresh fall of snow - the less confident the skier the more afraid they are of a non-smooth snow surface, so they continue to ski the scraped-off bits, which of course is what pushes the piles of snow into moguls. Instead you might like to choose a different strategy, before starting any given pitch, and look for the areas less scraped, with more soft snow, that should be easier to ski. Sounds obvious, but in practice I see the opposite - the lower the ability level the more likely it seems that someone will ski the more difficult line
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:
But I'm sure you can see the irony of wanting to find difficult runs that are easy.
That's not really what's happening here. The OP has kids who simply want to tick of "blacks". And she wants to find easy ones. I completely get that. The kids aren't bothered about irony, they just want to do a bit of willy waving with their mates.
The trick is to do the early in the day
+ 1 Le Face, ride the Olympique gondola first to check
+ 1 black runs under Solaise, again you can check some of it from the gondola
Upper part of runs from top of Toviere into Tignes Lac are usually flat ish in the morning, again you can see most of the runs from the gondola. Lower section into Lac is usually bumpier in my experience so you could use the Combe Folle drag to just do the upper sections if it is open (good lift to avoid queues too). Snow is usually really good on the upper runs.
Pramecou run off the chair to the left of the Tignes snow park usually has an easy flat route to avoid the mogul run down the middle. You'd be committed to this as soon as you got on the chair so might want to ask your instructor about this one before getting on.
All of these will be more pleasant and safer then the runs under the Folie Douce when the drunken hordes are on their way back.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Chaletbeauroc wrote:
SatsumasRock wrote:
I really regret not trying to learn to love moguls but, now I'm pushing 50 and my knees are creaky, I think that ship has sailed.
It's never too late. You need to understand that 'creaky' knees, or worse, should not be an issue on moguls if you learn how to ski them properly.
Carrying on from your comments above - and in case it is of help to the OP - I am posting this video, as despite its age, has advice that IMO is still relevant to skiing bumps in a more gentle fashion:
Another thing I find helps to remain in balance - and I am not a good Mogul skier - is to slide the feet forward to offset the breaking when you hit front side of a bigger bump; then crucially pull them back under your bum when going down the back side, to stop being thrown into the back seat.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Fri 10-01-25 15:56; edited 1 time in total
After all it is free
After all it is free
swoafs wrote:
Look to see each day if Sache is open and pisted - it wasn't open over NY, but we have skied it with kids at Easter before when it was newly pisted and it was glorious. Not to be attempted if not newly pisted though; it's very long.
Echo this. Down to the red cut out was fabulous, boyond that into Brev was awful
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You will see little piste bashers next to the runs that were pisted overnight, so if you are out early doors there is a smaller chance of moguls.
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
Quote:
It's never too late. You need to understand that 'creaky' knees, or worse, should not be an issue on moguls if you learn how to ski them properly. Watch a good mogul skier and it may appear that their knees are taking a pounding, as if the legs are acting like a car's shock absorbers and soaking up a lot of impact, but in fact that is not the case; rather, the movement of the knees is there to ensure the smoothest possible ride, maintaining as much as possible a consistent pressure through the skis, exactly the opposite of how it appears.
Exactly!
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Origen wrote:
The OP has kids who simply want to tick of "blacks". And she wants to find easy ones. I completely get that. The kids aren't bothered about irony, they just want to do a bit of willy waving with their mates.
If this is true and and it's just to "have done it" then I'd recommend the top of Le Face and escaping the lower section (State Olympic) by taking the red Joseray to the right. I love the top section of Le Face.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@SatsumasRock, not what you asked but thoughts: 1) not telling you how to parent honest but I would point out to them that you are paying for all this and that as they are too young to ski unsupervised, they go where you want to go. 2) there was a thread/debate on here about when/what age kids should be able to ski by themselves. 3) is it possible for them to ski their blacks unsupervised while you take another red/blue piste ending up at the same lift.
I have to be in the mood for moguls myself (I'm a bit older than you) and would 8 times out of 10 avoid them. I have kids of 17 and 19.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I haven't been to Tignes for a while but I always liked the black at the top of the Grand Motte. Snow is usually good and even the moguls can be soft. Also as its quite a short run you're not too tired by the end of it.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@skim, Trouble is they have taken that chair out and not replaced it over the summer! So unless you are into piling for a long way off piste or skinning up its over.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
The Termignon lift appears doomed to be forever greyed out on the piste map, it did out last the commune with the same name by a few years though. Perhaps the'll resurrect the name for blue run some time as a cheesy reference.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:
Are there other blacks in Tignes/Val D that are steep but not packed full of moguls?
Hi @SatsumasRock, in Tignes: Crocus, which cuts the corner off Henri; Combe Folle (if you don't want to continue onto Johan Clarey, check first that the button tow is running, take that back up and drop over the ridge to take Tommeuses chair back). In Val d'Isere, as mentioned by others, Rhone Alps.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
tangowaggon wrote:
From the piste maps, Black = "Very difficult"
If a black run is pisted flat, it is no longer "Very difficult" and no longer a Black run.
Wish someone had told the 80b black in the SkiWelt that last week! Bottom bit was "not enjoyable" despite being flat as a pancake, but then sheet ice tends to be.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@chocksaway - what a shame. That was a lovely area. As I say I haven't been to Tignes in a while. Does remind me that I need to go back.
Sheet ice is just another way of making it ‘very difficult’! I think it was on with the programme actually.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
The sache was moguled on Tuesday, most fairly hard (nearly frozen) but the skiing was great, I needed to do it again as it was so good, but the aguile percee lift closed just as I got to it.
The face was mainly smooth with hard packed (icy sections) which did catch me out first run down. There are a couple of black runs off col de ves? there was hardly anyone on them, just me at one point, one of them was not overly difficult, the other one (GC?) looked intimidating at the start, but was quite enjoyable with great snow.
I went on all the ones I could get to.
I wouldn't just go down the piste golf, without researching it, if it is open, as it doesn't sound like that's what you want to be doing.
Most of the black runs have their own reputations, research is a good idea.
I had a great time, you probably will too!
On The Sache, there is (or at least used to be), a "cut through" onto the easier run that leads down to the Brevieres. This bypasses the most difficult, usually very moguled section at the bottom of The Sache. IIRC.The rest of the Sache is quite doable.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Old Fartbag wrote:
On The Sache, there is (or at least used to be), a "cut through" onto the easier run that leads down to the Brevieres. This bypasses the most difficult, usually very moguled section at the bottom of The Sache. IIRC.The rest of the Sache is quite doable.
There is but it has not always been open in my experience.
After all it is free
After all it is free
It’s called Arcosses, there should be a sign at the top as to its status. But either check the app or with the pisteurs at the top of Aiguille Percee(you have to go there to get to Sache)
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Thank you all!
@Origen that's exactly it. They want to say they've done blacks, I'd prefer those blacks to not be hideous. I actually really love steep. It's just moguls I hate. But thank you those that gave mogul advice. Im going to try get lessons this time and ask if we can just do moguls.
@Layne I would agree that they need to do what I'm comfortable with given that I'm the one that's paying for it but I'm hoping to find a bit of a compromise. It's one of the reasons we keep going back to Tignes. We're all so familiar with it that I'll feel more comfortable with them going off by themselves hopefully sooner than in a resort that we don't know. They're actually pretty sensible kids and ski in control and within their limits. But I worry about if something happens. Which it can. I broke my back as an adult on a green run (or rather I had my back broken when a boarder ploughed into me from behind) and I dont think they'd be old enough to deal with that. Even with less serious accidents!
Last time we went, we would sit in the bar at the top of Bollin at the end of the day and they would just go up Tuffs and down Henri by themselves which I was fine about but think it'll be a couple of years before I'm comfortable with more. Although good point re us both going down a different run than ends at the same point.
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chocksaway wrote:
It’s called Arcosses, there should be a sign at the top as to its status. But either check the app or with the pisteurs at the top of Aiguille Percee(you have to go there to get to Sache)
It's a long time since I did it...possibly over 20 years ago. It wasn't an official run, just a small section of not difficult, pretty flat unpisted stuff around little bushy trees, that was usually well tracked. It then dropped down over a smallish lip onto an easy path.
It is more than possible that this has changed over the years.
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