 Poster: A snowHead
|
That's the beauty of a forum!
Other holiday factors are a massive consideration - namely a wife who's 'meh' about skiing, a younger son who really doesn't like it and an older one who absolutely loves it.
It's why Seefeld is such a great resort, loads to do in the town - an incredible pool with rapids and chutes, and it's also very close to innsbruck. Like 20 km away, so very easy for a few nights. Will definitley head back.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
[quote="Jäger"]
| sussexskibore wrote: |
| Jäger wrote: |
| Mjit wrote: |
Don't worry @Sim75, I think almost ever new adult skier goes through the exact same thing. A lot of children aren't phased by a new, steeper slope but as adults your mind just races to the 100 different ways you could end up in a puddle at the bottom of the slope 
Given what you'd said I'd suggest heading to Alpe d'Huez for your next trip. There's a perfect green/blue transition bowl right above the resort where you can build confidence and progress gradually to slightly steeper runs each day, not have some huge step up in steepness between one and the other. Though as others have said I'd probably recommend you have lessons in resort, probably 'have skied before' group lessons reading between the lines. You get basic instruction but more importantly don't have to worry about reading the piste map/ended up somewhere too difficult for you. No, you have an instructor who should quickly asses the skill levels in their group and only take you places they are confident you can cope with, pushing you to slightly harder stuff as the week goes on - but still giving you the confidence that they wouldn't have taken you there if they didn't think you were up to it.
...and then go back to Austria the following trip as it is better than France |
 ….oh now watch the usual suspects pile in, in defence of Frankreich
Alpe d’Huez isn’t a bad idea. There is a super gentle/wide green served by the Poutran button lift that is really awesome for practicing technique and it’s rarely busy (from experience). |
As an Alpe d'Huez lover, I would endorse the above. I havent seen a better progressors resort. There is a big network of greens (some of which you can really open up on and grow confidence) so you can feel genuine improvement and when it all clicks there is some tougher stuff up higher.
Personally I would bin off the lessons at Hemel and just enjoy that slope at your own pace (there is only so much you can learn in 100 yards) and invest your hard earned in private lessons in resort - I am sure you would notice an immediate change and confidence rise. Also, it is not Austria, so the food is better, the wine is better and there is considerably more skiing choice with less square-heads around.
There used to be a Sussex-based sH who loved AdH and who hasn’t posted here under their original username for a while now…..I wonder….
Anyhow “the food is better”…..other than a banging pizza restaurant on the mountain, not sure I’d agree with such a sweeping statement. More expensive? Yup! Wine definitely better, but also expensive (by comparison….Austria does do decent whites but the reds aren’t top drawer). Beer definitely better in Austria and nowhere near as expensive (5€ for a large one hereabouts )
I digress from the OP question, so apologies (from an erstwhile fan of French skiing). |
I did put smileys after to suggest my response was incendiary cobblers.....That original username was probably me - I couldn't find my original sign in or even my username and registered again this autumn. I am a huge fan of ADH - I simply like the area very much, way more than the 3V or Paradiski (I think Les Arcs is fab too, but not quite as good) and it is more cost effective than VDI.
I have said many times on here that ski resorts are like Marmite - good to one is a nonplussed to another.
The key to this thread is the poster having private lessons in resort - wherever he chooses to go
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| zikomo wrote: |
| Blackblade wrote: |
| zikomo wrote: |
| @Blackblade, Ummm maybe better for the OP to listen to advice from those who actually teach skiing..... |
Do you disagree with what I’ve said ?
I take ski instruction regularly. I’m a qualified motorcycle track instructor (not as a job I hasten to add - for fun) and was also a registered volleyball coach.
There are a LOT of similarities between motorsport and skiing; specifically that it is a craft skill with small changes in input having big impacts on output.
As such, whilst you are perfectly entitled to disagree with my suggestion I contend I’m fully entitled to to advance it. You’re making an ad hominem attack rather than tackling the substance. |
See above. I do disagree with what you have said. For good reasons.
You seem to have a strange definition of "ad hominem attack". I did not say anything personal to or about you, and neither did I attack you in any way. |
I read your revert on the substance and, have to concede, you have a point. I was imagining that the OP was not a beginner and was further ahead. If not, then I agree with what you've said. What I outlined was the approach that my instructor has taken with me and it's been revelatory in terms of developing my skiing. However, no, I'm not a beginner or intermediate.
I didn't take what you said as a personal attack so I'm not offended in the slightest. However, it IS nonetheless, strictly speaking, both an ad hominem and an inverse argument from authority ... both of which are considered logical fallacies in any formal debate. You inferred that, because I'm not a ski instructor (and, being blunt, you didn't know that I wasn't), that this invalidated my argument. So, not a personal attack BUT an attempt to argue that the substance is devalued by its source; so, yes, technically an ad hominem.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
[quote="sussexskibore"]
| Jäger wrote: |
| sussexskibore wrote: |
| Jäger wrote: |
| Mjit wrote: |
Don't worry @Sim75, I think almost ever new adult skier goes through the exact same thing. A lot of children aren't phased by a new, steeper slope but as adults your mind just races to the 100 different ways you could end up in a puddle at the bottom of the slope
Given what you'd said I'd suggest heading to Alpe d'Huez for your next trip. There's a perfect green/blue transition bowl right above the resort where you can build confidence and progress gradually to slightly steeper runs each day, not have some huge step up in steepness between one and the other. Though as others have said I'd probably recommend you have lessons in resort, probably 'have skied before' group lessons reading between the lines. You get basic instruction but more importantly don't have to worry about reading the piste map/ended up somewhere too difficult for you. No, you have an instructor who should quickly asses the skill levels in their group and only take you places they are confident you can cope with, pushing you to slightly harder stuff as the week goes on - but still giving you the confidence that they wouldn't have taken you there if they didn't think you were up to it.
...and then go back to Austria the following trip as it is better than France |
….oh now watch the usual suspects pile in, in defence of Frankreich
Alpe d’Huez isn’t a bad idea. There is a super gentle/wide green served by the Poutran button lift that is really awesome for practicing technique and it’s rarely busy (from experience). |
As an Alpe d'Huez lover, I would endorse the above. I havent seen a better progressors resort. There is a big network of greens (some of which you can really open up on and grow confidence) so you can feel genuine improvement and when it all clicks there is some tougher stuff up higher.
Personally I would bin off the lessons at Hemel and just enjoy that slope at your own pace (there is only so much you can learn in 100 yards) and invest your hard earned in private lessons in resort - I am sure you would notice an immediate change and confidence rise. Also, it is not Austria, so the food is better, the wine is better and there is considerably more skiing choice with less square-heads around.
There used to be a Sussex-based sH who loved AdH and who hasn’t posted here under their original username for a while now…..I wonder….
Anyhow “the food is better”…..other than a banging pizza restaurant on the mountain, not sure I’d agree with such a sweeping statement. More expensive? Yup! Wine definitely better, but also expensive (by comparison….Austria does do decent whites but the reds aren’t top drawer). Beer definitely better in Austria and nowhere near as expensive (5€ for a large one hereabouts )
I digress from the OP question, so apologies (from an erstwhile fan of French skiing). |
I did put smileys after to suggest my response was incendiary cobblers.....That original username was probably me - I couldn't find my original sign in or even my username and registered again this autumn. I am a huge fan of ADH - I simply like the area very much, way more than the 3V or Paradiski (I think Les Arcs is fab too, but not quite as good) and it is more cost effective than VDI.
I have said many times on here that ski resorts are like Marmite - good to one is a nonplussed to another.
The key to this thread is the poster having private lessons in resort - wherever he chooses to go |
Ah, well if you are who I think you are, we’re also friends on FB….and met up in ADH quite a few years ago….if you’re not that person….nice to ‘meet’ you. I had a cracking week in ADH - it has plenty to offer all ranges of skiers and would certainly be a good option for the OP.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
What’s the apres like in ADH? Can’t work out who’s taking the p!ss on here
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
@Blackblade, Looks like we now agree on the substance.
But you did accuse me of attacking you. You actually used the word "attack". I certainly did not attack you.
And yes, the opinion of one who has expertise does indeed carry more weight than the opinion of one who has not. In this case, qualified and experienced instructors will have a better qualified opinion. It is not ad hominem to suggest that it would be better to listen to those with expertise and experience than to those who have neither. It would have been if I had based my argument on you as a person, rather than your level of expertise.
All that said I very much enjoy the precision of your argument and I suspect you are a fellow pedant. So well met!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| zikomo wrote: |
@Blackblade, Looks like we now agree on the substance.
But you did accuse me of attacking you. You actually used the word "attack". I certainly did not attack you.
And yes, the opinion of one who has expertise does indeed carry more weight than the opinion of one who has not. In this case, qualified and experienced instructors will have a better qualified opinion. It is not ad hominem to suggest that it would be better to listen to those with expertise and experience than to those who have neither. It would have been if I had based my argument on you as a person, rather than your level of expertise.
All that said I very much enjoy the precision of your argument and I suspect you are a fellow pedant. So well met! |
Yes, guilty as charged ... a pedant .
I think I accused you of using an 'ad hominem attack' .. which, I would contend, doesn't infer that you attacked me ... merely that you used that rhetorical method to attack my premise.
And, yes, we completely agree on the substance now so I concede on that.
Well met ... perhaps we can ski together sometime and you can help me improve whilst engaging in some good arguments.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Expertise is an interesting word.
You could be an expert ski instructor, rather than a run of the mill ski instructor.
You could also be a ski instructor without being an expert skier.
Experienced is equally interesting.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Blackblade wrote: |
| There are a LOT of similarities between motorsport and skiing; specifically that it is a craft skill with small changes in input having big impacts on output. |
I'm not looking for another argument but I do a bit of both motorsport and skiing, so this caught my eye. I've never really considered that there's much overlap between the two. Maybe an element of adrenaline and a requirement to read 'the track' but I'm not thinking of any others. I guess that motorbikes are slightly more in common than cars, but for that reason I tend to think of mountain biking as being a closer cousin of skiing.
That said, I've been driving since a young age and for much longer than I've been skiing, so I possibly have more with that which feels natural, whereas skiing I need to be a bit more active in thinking what I'm doing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| SnoodyMcFlude wrote: |
| Blackblade wrote: |
| There are a LOT of similarities between motorsport and skiing; specifically that it is a craft skill with small changes in input having big impacts on output. |
I'm not looking for another argument but I do a bit of both motorsport and skiing, so this caught my eye. I've never really considered that there's much overlap between the two. Maybe an element of adrenaline and a requirement to read 'the track' but I'm not thinking of any others. I guess that motorbikes are slightly more in common than cars, but for that reason I tend to think of mountain biking as being a closer cousin of skiing.
That said, I've been driving since a young age and for much longer than I've been skiing, so I possibly have more with that which feels natural, whereas skiing I need to be a bit more active in thinking what I'm doing. |
I don’t think it’s really an argument … more a perception on my part. I have some facts that I think back it up but, like you, my motorsport experience (mainly motorbikes) is far longer and at a much higher standard than my skiing.
For me, the critical element is that both require a changes of direction which depends on the level of grip available and that a preternatural feel for grip is what distinguishes the top performers from the rest.
I guess we’re the same in one sense; when I’m on track I’m no longer thinking about what I’m doing to control the bike, I’m focussed on the line and the level of grip available and the bike control is entirely autonomic. I suspect, but don’t know since I’m not at that level, that this is exactly the same for a top level ski racer.
What I’ve gleaned from learning to ski is that tiny changes in timing (literally hundredths of a second), weighting, body position etc etc are hugely significant. I think this is almost exactly the same as for motorsport and with the same learning progression; you start by learning to control the machine/skis … you have to consciously learn how to control them … but the aim is to make it almost entirely autonomic so you can focus on line and speed. Achieving that takes coaching and practice and cannot be a purely theoretical exercise … it’s a craft skill.
Last, but not least, both have exactly the same requirement to build learned reflexes that override natural ones.
Anyway, not an argument as entirely immaterial in one sense … but I personally find that I’m frequently talking in very similar terms to motorcycle track riders as I’m then hearing as a student skier.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
Oh I’m sorry, this is abuse…
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
@Blackblade, Further precision. I am happy to concede your points as they are so well reasoned.
I would be delighted to ski with you. And always happy to do what I can to help anyone with their skiing. But to be honest I am much better at teaching beginners and intermediates than higher level skiers, so I would not presume to be best placed to help you improve. More fun for me is to spend a bit of time in training mode with good skiers. There is a natural bias in all instructor pathways, so I often find that just training with expert skiers who do not have formal qualifications brings new and different insights to my own skiing. It is likely that you will help me improve more than I will help you!
@dode, I completely agree, "expertise" covers a multitude of sins! In this case I am confident claiming expertise at the beginner and intermediate level. Based on student and peer feedback. I have the formal "expertise" to teach higher level skiers by dint of a qualification, but I do not consider myself at all expert at doing so. Not least as I know for a fact that others at my level of qualification are themselves much stringer skiers than I, have a deeper level of technical understanding, and are simply much better at it than I am.
@SnoodyMcFlude, and @Blackblade, I actually think there are some good cross-overs between skiing and biking. Balance is one area. Carving is an easier concept for good bikers as they inherently understand and are comfortable managing centrifugal forces with body position, something that is counter-intuitive to many. I am no expert biker, although I did quite a bot of it in my youth. And have certainly used that experience to good effect when teaching god bikers to ski. Other sports have such cross-overs, I also teach spey casting and find that good golfers tend to progress more quickly as they have learnt that timing is the key and not muscle power.
Unrelated but might amuse you to hear about why I no longer have a bike. When I asked my now wife to marry me she of course said yes. But shortly after took me in to the garage, pointed at the bike and then herself. And told me that I could have one or the other, but not both!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Nice arguments but I suspect of little use to the OP 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| Sim75 wrote: |
| What’s the apres like in ADH? Can’t work out who’s taking the p!ss on here |
The apres is good in ADH - Folies and several good bars at the bottom and no oompah
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
@Sim75, back on the point, if you are going to go back to Hemel I would thoroughly recommend doing an Inside Out improvers' course. They tend to run outside the ski season. But they are exactly suitable for someone of your standard and I think you can get £50 off the first one for being a snowhead. Really close and careful instruction (with video feedback) and such small groups it's like 1 on 1 most of the time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| zikomo wrote: |
Unrelated but might amuse you to hear about why I no longer have a bike. When I asked my now wife to marry me she of course said yes. But shortly after took me in to the garage, pointed at the bike and then herself. And told me that I could have one or the other, but not both! |
This made me laugh out loud. My experience wasn't quite the same ... my new wife asked me what it would take to stop me riding a motorbike. My response ? "Them shutting the lid on my coffin".
I never did stop riding ... but neither am I still married !
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
