 Poster: A snowHead
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@Shakira, Calculator gives me a suggested 6.5, but when I drop myself to the previous age level 8.
I have one metal hip and the other is "in the post" - I am certainly not in the top level, but I am about 85kg, have skied for over 40 years and can ski pretty much anything I fancy on piste.
I have dialled in DIN 7 for years, both on my own skis and anything I rent.
Based on real world experience, I reckon this works for me, but any lower I would fear a surprise release if I am putting "a lot" of pressure on a ski in whatever situation.
No thanks.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| GreenDay wrote: |
@Shakira, Calculator gives me a suggested 6.5, but when I drop myself to the previous age level 8.
I have one metal hip and the other is "in the post" - I am certainly not in the top level, but I am about 85kg, have skied for over 40 years and can ski pretty much anything I fancy on piste.
I have dialled in DIN 7 for years, both on my own skis and anything I rent.
Based on real world experience, I reckon this works for me, but any lower I would fear a surprise release if I am putting "a lot" of pressure on a ski in whatever situation.
No thanks. |
Hi. When you say dialed in on rental skis, do you ever alter their setting number, after collection?
Using the helpful link on this thread, mine should be 7. But the shop said 6, in German language bluntness, they dismissively found it annoying that I’d gently suggested another DIN number.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Snow&skifan wrote: |
| GreenDay wrote: |
@Shakira, Calculator gives me a suggested 6.5, but when I drop myself to the previous age level 8.
I have one metal hip and the other is "in the post" - I am certainly not in the top level, but I am about 85kg, have skied for over 40 years and can ski pretty much anything I fancy on piste.
I have dialled in DIN 7 for years, both on my own skis and anything I rent.
Based on real world experience, I reckon this works for me, but any lower I would fear a surprise release if I am putting "a lot" of pressure on a ski in whatever situation.
No thanks. |
Hi. When you say dialed in on rental skis, do you ever alter their setting number, after collection?
Using the helpful link on this thread, mine should be 7. But the shop said 6, in German language bluntness, they dismissively found it annoying that I’d gently suggested another DIN number. |
I usually ask them to put it at 7, never been questioned (probably because I am on the cusp of 6/7/8 depending on age and ability).
I find asking in the local language gives a positive reaction 
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I’m a similar weight & ski experience to yourself, the guides recommended din 8, I have skied on din 7 with no issues.
The one thing I would say is the binding also needs to have the correct forward pressure setting, which is set generally by having the rear binding in correct position, different manufacturers have different ways of checking this is correct.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@shep, 7.5 I'm on. I'm not skiing tomorrow (cardiac stress test) so I shll have a look t all of my skis.
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@under a new name, Ok mate, good luck on the vélo. Thinking about it, boot-sole length might account for a chunk of the difference between your settings and mine. Mine are 310mm, your dainty daisies might be shorter?
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@shep, Mine are 295 iirc?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Interesting thread. Question: does the din calculation table come from a mechanical calculation? ( eg weight, length etc). Is it the same across bindings or is it manufacturers specific? Has any organisation audited or assessed the results? Ie collected accident statistics and correlated back to Din settings?
Reason I ask is that would answer some of the questions around why and to what extent thinks like weight, boot length etc affect the number of.
Personally I started with looking at the entire table, making my own judgement, and then assessing when in the mountain. Turns out I ski note aggressive than average ( in other words I’m not very graceful!) so where the tables would put me on 6.5 I usually pre release and so chose to be on 7.5. This is only really an issue if renting in the US where the hit ships don’t like customers wanting something outside the shop liability form.
I’m currently skiing with a suspected torn ACL so have gone down to 6.5…. And the skis have mostly released when I want them to. Had one crash where they didn’t, and over-straightened my leg as a result. Had to curtail day after, although possibly also due to the hour climb up/ long descent and pump track exit….
Assuming I get back to skiing post surgery, I’ll probably start at 6.5, and moderate my aggressiveness, and go from there.
To the OP point, is anyone aware of actual recommendations for changes post Acl surgery, or is this also in the same bucket of “there’s no feedback loop”….
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@hamilton,
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is anyone aware of actual recommendations for changes post Acl surgery
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As typed above, neither my surgeon, GP (who've both had a recon) nor physio (who's had both) suggested it. You'd expect they would if it was a good idea.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
Interesting thread. Question: does the din calculation table come from a mechanical calculation? ( eg weight, length etc). Is it the same across bindings or is it manufacturers specific? Has any organisation audited or assessed the results? Ie collected accident statistics and correlated back to Din settings?
Reason I ask is that would answer some of the questions around why and to what extent thinks like weight, boot length etc affect the number of
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The idea behind the DIN calculation is based on physics - forces and levers, ie weight/skiing style and height/foot length. Eg, the longer the lever is that you use to try and turn something, the easier it is to turn it, so for the same given force, a longer foot would twist out of a binding more easily than a short foot, hence you have to set the DIN higher for the same force applied, in order for the long foot to stay in the binding. Apparently the numbers were initially worked out by seeing what force was required to break the bones on a lot of cadaver leg bones? Maybe don't quote me on that, but I seem to recall being told that. And my physics is pretty ropy, having done nothing more than O-level over 40 years ago!
What we refer to as DIN is actually a shortened form of 'Deutsch Industry Norm for ski binding release settings'. Lots of things conform to DIN standards, eg the size of washing machines, or the size of the hole in an old car dashboard for slotting the radio into. As it is a DIN standard, it is the same the world over, and across all manufacturers.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Boot length is the bit I can never get my head around. This seems intuitively to make sense to me:
| karin wrote: |
the longer the lever is that you use to try and turn something, the easier it is to turn it, so for the same given force, a longer foot would twist out of a binding more easily than a short foot, hence you have to set the DIN higher for the same force applied, in order for the long foot to stay in the binding.
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... but actually the DIN chart gives a lower value for a longer boot.
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| Shakira wrote: |
Boot length is the bit I can never get my head around. This seems intuitively to make sense to me:
| karin wrote: |
the longer the lever is that you use to try and turn something, the easier it is to turn it, so for the same given force, a longer foot would twist out of a binding more easily than a short foot, hence you have to set the DIN higher for the same force applied, in order for the long foot to stay in the binding.
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... but actually the DIN chart gives a lower value for a longer boot. |
It's because the view is taken from the wrong "end" of the equation.
If you extend a lever, for demonstration purposes, to 200mm in front of your leg (typical boot, possibly) then twist it with a set force until you squeak at that point of extension you'd need a certain amount of grip on the end of that lever .... the Din equivalent.
If that notional lever was extended to 300mm for example, the same force used above would take the effect (in torsion on your leg) way past the original squeak point, and closer to breaking. Therefore you'd need LESS in Din equivalent to protect the bone from torsion to the same degree.
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You know it makes sense.
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@Shakira, er, yes, you are right! As I was typing it, I was thinking 'How come this all makes so much logical sense this time, when whenever I've thought about it in detail before, it hasn't made sense?' I said my physics was a bit ropey, and I also don't have a chart in front of me at the minute
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@ski3, thankyou for that explanation. It does make sense to me
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Poster: A snowHead
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| karin wrote: |
| @ski3, thankyou for that explanation. It does make sense to me |
Yes I think it may make more sense to say, Din is the GRIP on that lever rather than the lever length.
Effectively needing less grip to move a longer leaver to the same force.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@ski3, meaning, then, that the essential purpose of any DIN setting, and in this case the (somewhat counterintuitive) lower DIN is "protecting the joint" rather than "resisting the lever".
Because if the point was to resist the longer lever, you would need a higher DIN.
Right?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Scooter in Seattle wrote: |
@ski3, meaning, then, that the essential purpose of any DIN setting, and in this case the (somewhat counterintuitive) lower DIN is "protecting the joint" rather than "resisting the lever".
Because if the point was to resist the longer lever, you would need a higher DIN.
Right? |
Yes to protecting the "joint" skeletal assembley, which is entirely reasonable .
Effectively the Din algorithm will be used for either (to a certain degree) if you look at generally used range of up to about 10. Then it would, above that, in competition for example and going up into the teens, favour the lever (ultimately competition pace) over pure injury mitigation.
But then would be expected to have the musculoskeletal, physical fitness for task along with method in skills to understand and utilise that range, with acknowledgement of risk penalty and injury arising from this.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@ski3, that makes sense, and I think I have seen the explanation before, but it never seems to stick in my head...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'm not even going to try and get my head round how it works, but having adjusted as many sets of bindings over the years as I have, I just accept that it mostly does work! However, we do see some extremes of parameters, and mismatches of parameters, and sometimes the official setting doesn't work very well. If someone is very heavy for their height, you are supposed to set for their height rather than weight, and people often release too easily; a child under 10 is supposed to have an adjustment from the base number, to lower the setting, but if they are the size of a healthy 12 year old, they will release too easily.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@homers double, are you more likely to decide to hop off into the off piste than a beginner on the same din setting? How is this going to affect your setting? I <think?? you should put it up, slightly.
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| homers double wrote: |
Hi all, anyone reading the rehab thread may know that on the 4th of March 2023 I fully ruptured my left ACL skiing. 27th of November 2023 I had the full reconstruction with harvested hamstring an obviously missed the rather warm 23/24 season.
Almost two years on we're ready to hit the slopes and I need to sort my skis out with revised DIN settings.
Can anyone with real knowledge advise what this should be (or if you don't want comit point me in the right direction) based on the following:
Weight 90kg
Height 1.8m
Years skiing 35+
Ability (post crash) ski pretty much anything on piste.
Current fitness is gym 3 times a week, running upto 6 miles twice a week, cycling is currently reduced due to the winter and the turbo is as dull as dull thing.
In Feb we're going to Sestriere with my B I L who hasn't skiied for several years so I don't expect a mad week and I'll certainly be taking it easy for the first few days. Also planning a Chill Factor visit over the next few weeks to see how my knee feels.
Thank you. |
I have similar stats to you, also a gym-goer/daily cyclist, would put in an advanced-expert level and the fact that it like to jump, do bumps and head into side piste without changing my DINS (full off piste is a bit different). BSL is 320mm. Height 174cm, weight around 90kgs.
I blew my knee (all ligaments) in 2016 end of season, fluffed the rehab over the summer, and had to rehab it properly during the 2016-17 ski season in France, wearing an Ossur knee brace.
For gentle skiing whilst rehabbing, I ran a 6.5 and stayed on piste for a few weeks, avoiding any rough stuff.
Years later, my DINs are set at 7.5, and I have had releases when necessary, and no pre-releases. You could probably ho a touch lower. I still wear the brace due to hyperextension and soreness issues with that knee if I don't, annoyingly.
I'm sure others have told you. The rehab is everything. Don't do what I did at first!
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To add, this was the same DIN setting i used pre-accident, and i have not reduced it with age (now 47).
My main concessions to my knee injury are:
- knee brace
- Tyrolia Attack Protector 14s on my bigger skis (eg 185cm, 104 underfoot, used primarily for slush and going backwards when teaching the kids)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| under a new name wrote: |
@homers double, I've met some pretty spicy "kittens".
@ski3, my point is really only that afaik (based on my own ACL journey these last 2 years and a lot of physio/surgical input) is that no-one suggested modifying DINs - my surgeon is in Annecy and treats hundreds of skiers, my physio is in Chamonix, has had both her knees reconned and treats hundreds of skiing rehabs. They'd have mentioned it if it was advisable.
If it's too light you'll pre-release (if not, it's not too light), if it's too tight, well, the obvious! Realising of course that it's not an exact setting and it's a single number in a highly dynamic situation. |
Since this I've been looking at various elements of it ..... and agree with your point UANN.
It seems that Din setting and calculations are focused much more in osteo limitations.
Looking at how an acl is damaged, all schematic and illustration show that you'd need lateral displacement of lower leg in relation to femur to cause this outcome. Is that true ? In which case, the confidence of your physician in a repaired acl to withstand skiing, without adaption, can be accepted in (my limited knowledge) our view here as entirely representative/reasonable.
Thats for the normal load etc it would experience.
The skiers abilities, through experience, skill, pace, etc, etc should keep them away from placing the acl at risk, whether pristine original or repaired is in use.
I can see though in considering the original thread question, that if the skier were to get into difficulties and risk a slow non release type situation, then it could easily bring the limb into the relm of risking acl, however good that was at the time.
Effectively, no, it doesn't need adapted din setting for this (none given to calculate either in method of setting) although if the skier can see and project themselves into that compromised alignment, then reasonable tempering of the Din set applied would be for them to judge.
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FAQ
. Come on you're a physicist, empirical methodology is required...! 
