 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi - wondering if this sounds like altitude sickness. My son who has turned 11 today has been having private snowboarding lessons with his brother and two other kids for the last few days in Cervinia and in the last two days the instructor has reported the following - at one point of the day my son suddenly became very pale , said he wasn’t feeling well and almost collapsed. On both days he recovered within 15 min or so, on the first day after a sugary snack and on a second day after laying down for a few minutes and then seemed back to his usual self and was able to continue snowboarding for the rest of afternoon although did look pale .He does have a little cold/cough with no fever but l don’t think it is related. I recall further couple of times where the same symptoms occurred in the past both times at over 3000 elevation but these past few days they were not quite so high. Obviously will check with a doctor when we get back home but wondering if this is in fact seems like an altitude sickness
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I wouldn't have thought he'd have recovered without descending
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Shock? Even if no obvious trigger?
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@MorningGory, yes but l read that with altitude sickness you can sometimes recover by resting at the same altitude. @Orange200, no triggers at all for any shock, both times happen during lunch or hot chocolate brake so not on the slope
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Go to the local medical centre and ask. They won’t mind.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@kditrj2d, thank you, l might
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Eating and drinking properly? Dehydration and low blood sugar?
Motion sickness, what’s the vis like?
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@Thick As, thank you. Yes eating and drinking ok, but perhaps didn’t have enough water.. not sure. Visibility has been perfect the last few days after one day on skiing in snow storm with no vis at all- but no symptoms on that day
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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In the past I have had episodes of feeling faint during mountaineering trips, probably at similar altitudes to Cervinia ie around 3000m - 3500m. I dont think it was altitude related as I had already spent some days at altitude nor to excessive exertion (plodding up glaciers) but maybe it might have been related to hydration (lack of). I found drinking a sugary drink made the symptoms go away and never thought a lot more about it. It could be the effects of altitude too, everyone reacts differently. I would guess it would go away after a few days as his body acclimatises, it can take a number of days. I would have thought the local doctors would be well versed in understanding symptoms of altitude sickness?
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@munich_irish, thank you, sounds very similar. Will make sure to keep an eye on his drinking over next few days and maybe check with medical centre.. we have been here since Sunday and leaving in three days
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Bella2015, as noted above, worthwhile seeking medical view in village to at least cover cursory observation by someone with experience.
Also consider salt/sodium levels with exposure to varying atmosphere in travel etc. Plane, car, coach etc salt can affect this leading up to this symptom currently.
Hydration usually has "foundation" in preceeding days before you experience effect. Monitoring that more carefully at least should give indication of intake. Urine colour getting too yellow a good signal of depletion.
Mineral water, "San Peligreno, St Yorre" two that are a good mineral content with low risk to drink some and see if there's change.
Note, I'm not a medic but with this personal experience under exertion, treat as Anecdotal.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@ski3, thank you. I will definitely seek medical advice tomorrow and ensure he drinks more especially as he also has a kidney condition although probably unrelated
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Definitely not. Recovery from AS is not that quick.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Scooter in Seattle wrote: |
| Definitely not. Recovery from AS is not that quick. |
Exactly this. The speed of recovery rules out AS. The symptoms don't even really fit - headache and loss of appetite would be the main things you'd expect to see.
His symptoms alongside the fact a sugary snack caused a quick recovery point more towards low blood sugar.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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What they said. Sounds more like "bonk" - just running out of sugar. Chocolate...?
But good to be concerned and to get clinical input of course.
I just sometimes hit that wall and liquid/ chocolate (possibly combined) generally fixes me fast.
At those sorts of altitudes, when you're not "up there" long, I've never really noticed anything except dehydration which gets a lot of folk.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
At those sorts of altitudes, when you're not "up there" long, I've never really noticed anything except dehydration which gets a lot of folk.
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As I've said before euro ski resorts are just not that high in the grand scheme of things. Usually claims of altitude sickness are simply headaches. Look at the average journey to a ski resort:
- having sleep interrupted to wake up in the middle of the night
- general stress of travel
- probably a day of not eating/drinking particularly well - maybe even alcoholic drinks
- boiling hot transfer bus up a windy road
It's hardly surprising headaches are common and people feel a bit tired and run down! If someone has AS they are probably going straight to bed and skipping dinner (loss of appetite is found in around 80% of cases of mild AS).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Bella2015 wrote: |
| @ski3, thank you. I will definitely seek medical advice tomorrow and ensure he drinks more especially as he also has a kidney condition although probably unrelated |
Hopefully you'll get some reasonable attention, pharmacy will often give first opinion in European country and more expected than historic interaction than we'd consider UK outlet.
Hopefully they're all enjoying the boarding tuition there and finding progression with that. I've noted my experience of this before on here, finding them particularly attentive and knowledgeable in general for teaching in Cervinia.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Could be dehydration - dry air.
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How long had he been there when experiencing symptoms? Tiredness/dehydration usually increase over 1st 3 days leading to low energy & performance on days 3/4 in particular, then start to improve with acclimatisation. It's no coincidence day 3 pm of a ski holiday is a notorious time for accidents!
AS is more serious than this, my wife experienced this in Saas Fee after climbing to around 3700m altitude. Her whole body swelled up with peripheral oedema, the hotel called local Dr who said he has seen this quite often, even with local racers doing high altitude summer training on the glaciers. A course of diuretics and the resulting bathroom visits every 30 mins or so resolved the issue very quickly, but she was advised to go back to sea level ASAP
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Thank you all, have spoken to a pharmacist here today and dehydration is indeed more likely the cause ( especially as my son admitted to drinking less as he find taste of water weird - even bottled). Has managed to drink more today and no symptoms all day, having a great time snowboarding, instructor has been great. pharmacist advised to get him checked out once we are back home given his underlying kidney issue.
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| boarder2020 wrote: |
| Quote: |
At those sorts of altitudes, when you're not "up there" long, I've never really noticed anything except dehydration which gets a lot of folk.
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As I've said before euro ski resorts are just not that high in the grand scheme of things. Usually claims of altitude sickness are simply headaches. Look at the average journey to a ski resort:
- having sleep interrupted to wake up in the middle of the night
- general stress of travel
- probably a day of not eating/drinking particularly well - maybe even alcoholic drinks
- boiling hot transfer bus up a windy road
It's hardly surprising headaches are common and people feel a bit tired and run down! If someone has AS they are probably going straight to bed and skipping dinner (loss of appetite is found in around 80% of cases of mild AS). |
Last two times I have been to Tignes I have arrived with a terrible headache and slight nausea which has taken a day to clear. The village is 2,300m so part of me thought it could be altitude sickness but on the other hand I thing you are probably just right about it just being travel sickness and dehydration. One of the journeys was an 8 1/2 hour journey from hell on an ancient, musty smelling coach and the other was like a sauna because the driver was wearing a short-sleeved shirt and didn't want to put a jacket on.
As for the OP, tbh it sounds a bit more like a diabetic hypo than altitude sickness. Obviously I am not a doctor but altitude sickness usually resolves by descending to a lower altitude so it would seem strange that he would recover at the same altitude. I have worked with a few diabetics over the years including one guy who had to check his blood sugars every hour. I remember one episode where he was distracted by a long phone call which meant he couldn't check his sugars and he ended up going into a hypo where he was confused, sweaty, pale, shaky, having brain fog, it was almost like he was drunk. As soon as his brain figured out what was happening he ate some sugary sweets and recovered rapidly within a few minutes.
It could just be to do with him doing more strenuous exercise than he is used to or the cold or maybe not being fuelled up enough. Or a 'bonk' to use a cycling term (it happens suddenly and feels like you have no energy to turn the pedals at all).
In any case, probably worth a check up with a doctor when you get home considering that he has another medical condition.
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Feeling faint and unwell but not collapsing then recovering well does sound like dehydration TBH. Dehydration goes poorly with kidney disease. If he’s ever confused or collapses without warning straight to the hospital IMO.
Medical grade hypoglycaemia is extremely unlikely without injecting insulin. Altitude effect - feels a bit sick so doesn’t drink enough then feels faint sounds pretty likely to me.
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Keep hydrated. Our experience was/is that our kids didn’t fancy drinking that much with breakfast, they had to be encouraged to.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Apologies if this is a thread hijack but interested in folks opinion. Just spent 5 nights in Tignes VC and after the first night I had zero appetite, like struggled to eat more than a yoghurt or mouthful of croissant. By day 4 I was gubbed and totally frustrated. No other real symptoms other than sleep was not great. Back in the valley appetite started to improve and now back to normal.
Anyone else experienced something similar or have any suggestions how to avoid? Booked for a week in Arcs 2000 in March and quite concerned about how to survive if I experience similar symptoms! Can't see me surviving a week on a few hundred calories a day.
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My sister has always experienced headaches/migraines in the mountains, even at modest altitudes (she does get migraines at home, but much less often). She puts it down to the change of air pressure at altitude.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I saw this thread when it first appeared. I think the way to think about it is this: altitude sickness, despite the vague title, is a relatively specific problem and (normally) is associated with altitudes over 10,000 feet and has oedema of the brain as one of the key problems. That does not mean that other significant problems at altitude are not real and not due to altitude, and of course, all the other things that go with it - the relatively low oxygen, dry air, dehydration, unusual exercise, excessive exercise undertaken due to the joy, the stress of travel, booze etc. etc. Take care and if symptoms persist go see your quack if symptoms don’t improve when you get home. This is particularly important for snowheads who think that at 60 they can still perform just as well as they did at 30 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| scottishandy wrote: |
Apologies if this is a thread hijack but interested in folks opinion. Just spent 5 nights in Tignes VC and after the first night I had zero appetite, like struggled to eat more than a yoghurt or mouthful of croissant. By day 4 I was gubbed and totally frustrated. No other real symptoms other than sleep was not great. Back in the valley appetite started to improve and now back to normal.
Anyone else experienced something similar or have any suggestions how to avoid? Booked for a week in Arcs 2000 in March and quite concerned about how to survive if I experience similar symptoms! Can't see me surviving a week on a few hundred calories a day. |
That sounds like the classic symptoms of “altitude reaction” (I’m not a doctor so I don’t know the real definition of “altitude sickness”) that many people reported, including one of my roommate in a trip. The telltale sign is headache/lose of appetite, and the fact it disappeared as soon as one goes down into the valley
I don’t know if there’s a sure way to avoid it. But plenty of rest and plenty of fluid are supposed to help. I had a mild case of it many years ago. I now try not to fly from sea level to +10,000 feet (3000m) on one go. I find a way to stop around 6000’/2000m for a night before going higher. Not have the same problem recurring since.
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@scottishandy, Firstly, it's very rare to get altitude symptoms below 2500m. If it's just loss of appetite it could be just change in pressure, or something completely non related. For altitude sickness you usually see loss of appetite + headache.
For argument sake, let's say it is altitude sickness. You could ask your doctor to prescribe diamox which speeds up acclimatisation. The only other thing is to look at staying someone lower to acclimatise (although if your accomodation is at 2000m I'm not sure it's even that helpful to sleep at 1500m or something as it's probably barely different to sea level). Lots of fluids and you can take ibuprofen to help with headache.
Regarding not being able to eat. You really just have to force yourself as unpleasant as it is. For some people it's easier to drink kcal when they don't have an appetite.
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You know it makes sense.
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If you're not eating paracetemol is probably far kinder than ibuprofen on an empty stomach for headache.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Thanks for the advice all. No headaches in my case which is why I hesitate to call it altitude sickness. Sounds like I need to just force calories down, which is frustrating cause I like eating! Maybe try something like huel.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@scottishandy, I'm tempted to say it was something non related to altitude. No headache and the fact you were below 2500m makes it seem unlikely imo. Was that your first time above 2000m? I think you might just have to see how the next trip goes and take it from there.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Dehydration?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Almost definitely not, I'm pretty obsessive about drinking.
I had minor symptoms (lack of sleep and appetite) in Cervina 3 years ago then slightly worse in Meribel (1700m) last year so seems like it's something that is getting worse. Stayed high a good few times over the years with no issues.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Reality is the issues are probably a mix of altitude, travel (sleep disruption etc), hotel beds (no matter how good, I sleep 2-3 hours less/night for at least first few nights, even when going to bed early rather than helping other  prop up the bar) dehydration, alcohol and exercise (going from sitting at a desk all day to skiing ~4 hours every day (lifts don't count).
And the biggest hit for altitude is probably the reduced fitness performance it causes...
Of course people (myself included) don't want to accept that they can fix it by exercising more in advance of trip, or spending less time in the bar during, hence it is all altitude sickness...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| scottishandy wrote: |
after the first night I had zero appetite, like struggled to eat more than a yoghurt or mouthful of croissant. By day 4 I was gubbed and totally frustrated. No other real symptoms other than sleep was not great. Back in the valley appetite started to improve and now back to normal.
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Booked for a week in Arcs 2000 in March and quite concerned about how to survive if I experience similar symptoms! Can't see me surviving a week on a few hundred calories a day. |
I’m not sure what might have caused that. It could simply be a coincidence that you had some kind of issue causing the lost of appetite during that trip?
I wouldn’t worry too much about the March trip. Since you “survived” the earlier trip, you can probably survive another one if it is altitude related.
Only if it repeats that you may want to look into it more.
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