 Poster: A snowHead
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As someone with no skin in the game, it amuses me to see people turn on the head of a pin to justify taking their kids out of school to go skiing.
Actually, I obviously did have skin in the game once, having been a child. I was taken out for the odd day, usually at term end when nothing academic was happening. However, I wasn't taken skiing; my parents chose to take us on European summer holidays instead, where a massive amount of the sort of educating my school was unable to offer took place. I don't resent that, however nice it might have been to start skiing earlier than I did.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@KSH, I have made no attempt to justify the fact that I took my kids out of primary school for a week of skiing. I have tried to explain my reasoning though. I could not care less what you or others think of my decision to be honest, and feel absolutely no need to justify myself. Interesting that you actually justify the fact that you were taken out of school for the "odd day", because "nothing academic was happening", which is very much a "turn on a head of a pin".
I also don't insinuate that somehow my parenting approach (or the approach taken by my parents) is somehow superior to others.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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We took our 5 & 6yo’s out of primary for six week (inc. half-term) tour of NZ with the blessing of their school …a couple of decades back.
A while later my brother took his daughter out for two whole school years to do a twenty month cycle tour of the Americas.
All three managed to graduate with firsts in their respective degree subjects.
Partly humble-brag (yes, very proud of all three!), partly changing circumstances wrt The Rules, but mainly to say that there’s more to education than learning fronted-adverbials or whatever’s on the curriculum currently.
…or even keeping the school’s attendance sheet clean.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Dylan_T42 wrote: |
We took our 5 & 6yo’s out of primary for six week (inc. half-term) tour of NZ with the blessing of their school …a couple of decades back.
A while later my brother took his daughter out for two whole school years to do a twenty month cycle tour of the Americas.
All three managed to graduate with firsts in their respective degree subjects.
Partly humble-brag (yes, very proud of all three!), partly changing circumstances wrt The Rules, but mainly to say that there’s more to education than learning fronted-adverbials or whatever’s on the curriculum currently.
…or even keeping the school’s attendance sheet clean. |
So you are arguing the school system is over educating kids with the current term arrangements? Drop a note to Rachel Reeves and tell her so we can reduce the length of terms by a couple of weeks, reduce teachers salaries and have lower school maintenance. We can all pay slightly less tax. 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Not sure why people need to justify feeling ok about breaking the rules. It's against the rules, so there's no justification other than you want to.
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In the middle of this myself.
We just pulled our 7 and 9 years out for 6 months a season in NZ. Will be re registering them when back in UK.
Secondary school I assume a little more difficult to do so, places wise.
The arguments from LEAs/ gov are ridiculous. Primary school kids do so little work in a week. Between 30mins at start and end of day, HR + for lunch, 10mins to change class tasks, 10 to re explain, etc etc split between 25 - 30 children!?. I'd be surprised if a school days equates to more than a hr or 2 of actual learning per kid. Not a slur on teachers but just the logistics of keeping control of so many kids!
Schools give zero help for homeschooling/ temp absence, ours said they couldn't even give us the rough teaching outline for term as "they're not allowed to use public funding for it"...!
Compare that to friends in the US whose school gave them loads of resources to cover what they'd miss who did similar absence to us.
Fines wise, our headteacher was incredibly helpful explaining and helping us plan previous absences. Ie they only have to report it after x number days absence in row. Also fines, if you take a week either side of term dates..
The issue obviously is govs responsibility to those most at risk/ deprived and using a blunt stick to enforce to ensure fairness. In these days due to litigation and professional managers it's the trend. No nuance or discussion, just pure adherence to the written rule.
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| noodlehat wrote: |
The arguments from LEAs/ gov are ridiculous. Primary school kids do so little work in a week. Between 30mins at start and end of day, HR + for lunch, 10mins to change class tasks, 10 to re explain, etc etc split between 25 - 30 children!?. I'd be surprised if a school days equates to more than a hr or 2 of actual learning per kid. Not a slur on teachers but just the logistics of keeping control of so many kids!
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As a former primary headteacher, I take that as quite a slur. If that happened at your kids' school, you're not much of a parent for accepting it. Not a slur on you as a parent of course*.  Several of my kids did GCSE Maths in year 6**; and most could read like 14/15 year olds when they left.
* stings a bit dunnit?
** majority had Ds, due to me foolishly entering them for the Foundation paper where D is the best you can get; but at least one had a B the following year.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Surely the underlying issue here isn't the rules or how they're applied, but the fact that the uk doesn't stagger the mid-winter half term week? Check out the table of school-holiday dates sticky at the top of "The Piste", and you'll see that the uk is the only European country to force (almost) all families nationwide to compete for the same single week off!
Not that it would help in the short term, but perhaps if the energy spent trying to get around the rules were redirected to lobbying for a change in the school schedule, it would make this a non-issue in the future - for both parents, the authorities, and the travel industry?
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I don’t have bairns but most of the people in our building go on summer holiday from Manchester and not Scotland because the prices in Scotland are so high at the start of the holiday. They can be 1/2 price from Manchester because the English kids are not yet on holiday.
So I can understand why you would want to go a few days early. I really don’t see that as a problem.
Taking kids out in the middle of a term however and expecting the teacher to get them back up to speed is not on mind you. The rest of the class are not getting the full attention because someone takes their kids out.
And if 3-4 families do this throughout the term it must be disruptive.
However a couple. Of days at the end of term with time for them to catch up on their own is absolutely fine with me.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| GlasgowCyclops wrote: |
The rest of the class are not getting the full attention because someone takes their kids out.
And if 3-4 families do this throughout the term it must be disruptive.
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My mum was a teacher. Even if her holidays didn't align with ours, she never took my sister or I out of school, for precisely the reasons above.
So much of school is about kids working and learning as a group. Sometimes those "high attendance, top scoring, hard working" kids that seem to represent 100% of Snowheads' kids, are an important part of helping their classmates raise their own game, and making group sessions more deliverable.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| noodlehat wrote: |
| Primary school kids do so little work in a week. Between 30mins at start and end of day, HR + for lunch, 10mins to change class tasks, 10 to re explain, etc etc split between 25 - 30 children!?. I'd be surprised if a school days equates to more than a hr or 2 of actual learning per kid. |
Is your view that the only learning your kids do, is when they're sat in class in front of a teacher learning something new?
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We're in Hampshire unfortunately which is one of the worst after the court case in the Isle of Wight. The rules are stupid. We got fined in year R! and the "goal of the week" at the time was count to 10... ours were counting to 100 at that point. Equally stupid is another child took the same week out and didn't get the fine because they were under 5.
If you do want to take them out just phone them in sick for a couple days and then there is nothing they will do. All of teachers have been supportive of the holiday but the heads hands are tied. One year we got fined another couple phoned in sick for 1 day and thus nothing happened to them. Another point that frustrates me is that kids get allowed out of school for various trips like competitions etc for sports which IMO isn't right - If the law is about learning then whether your good at a sport should not be a reason you can skip school.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Rob_Quads wrote: |
Equally stupid is another child took the same week out and didn't get the fine because they were under 5.
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Education is not statutory under 5.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I can't believe the people falling on the side of the authorities here.
It is not someone taking their offspring out of school for a week on the lash in Playa or Benidorm.
These are trips that add to a child's skill set
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Charliegolf wrote: |
| Rob_Quads wrote: |
Equally stupid is another child took the same week out and didn't get the fine because they were under 5.
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Education is not statutory under 5. |
Agreed I know but this makes a mockery of the law - So if you are in school and under 5 its OK and won't affect the Childs education but if your over 5 it will affect their education. You can't have it both ways thus why it should not apply to anyone in year R.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I can't believe the people falling on the side of the authorities here.
It is not someone taking their offspring out of school for a week on the lash in Playa or Benidorm.
These are trips that add to a child's skill set
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I love to play devil's advocate
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I've taken mine out for the last three years, without consequence.
My understanding is that they get the huff if you have 5 consecutive days, so, if the terms starts on a Tuesday, then you've only missed 4 consecutive days and you're ok.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Rob_Quads, No Rob, It's showing schools that they can't have it both ways.
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| sussexskibore wrote: |
I can't believe the people falling on the side of the authorities here.
It is not someone taking their offspring out of school for a week on the lash in Playa or Benidorm.
These are trips that add to a child's skill set |
This is the real rib-tickler in all this.
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As expected we have ended up in the ethical debate of is it right to take your child out (was always going to happen), thankfully I don't rely on the forums for that answer!
However for completeness my opinion is, work hard, take some work with us, exemplary attendance the rest of the year, lots of support on homework, then the impact in terms of development is net positive.
Some comments on race training, we are only just at snow plough so setting the foundations.... rather than charging gates...so that option will have to wait.
So going back to the question.....anyone had approved absence for coming season?
Appologies for the interuption, let the moral debate continue!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I don't have kids but my neices (9 years old at the time) went on ski school ski trip that was optional. Most of there class didn't go. They didn't have any academic work while on trip but there school class at home continued as normal but with a fun Friday thrown in. So what's the difference between a school sanctioned ski trip and a family trip?
I think each trip should be treated and judged on there own genuine merit inc how the kid is coping at the time in school.
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We could get one -- prep school that lets you to a certain level -- but there's enough going on at this point bunched at the end of terms such as concerts/plays/services that there's not enough of a wind down to want to skip a whole week. (Not necessarily the case for a 5 year old.)
The sometimes offset and longer holidays help finding a different quiet week, some years at least.
I'd have thought someone could write a consultancy report claiming several billion pounds of efficiencies in the UK economy if we moved to deliberately regional school holidays like France to spread travel out.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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We take our child for nearly 2 weeks each Jan.
Any of you in Wales? Not sure if it's all of Wales or Powys or just part of powys as we are split into clusters where we are (but it is definitely more than just our school), we can apply for up to 10 days off each school year for any reason you like. Most people in our school take advantage at some point during the year. It suits us as Jan is pretty much the only time my husband and I can get off work. Afterwards i usually send in videos of him skiing plus any badges he gets as all the children like to see it.
Interestingly, our approval slip is returned each year from them with a different reason. Ones I can remember include child has good attendance and family holiday is important.
Spaces in all year groups if anyone fancies changing schools!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Charliegolf wrote: |
| sussexskibore wrote: |
I can't believe the people falling on the side of the authorities here.
It is not someone taking their offspring out of school for a week on the lash in Playa or Benidorm.
These are trips that add to a child's skill set |
This is the real rib-tickler in all this. |
Ah, one of those teacher types that believes his own hype - give it a rest!!!
Don't know about you, but my eldest daughter ended up a ski instructor for a few years until she ruptured her ACL and sought a career change but now works in Winter Sports admin - So a rib tickler it most certainly is. I am rolling around watching reactions to this and institutionalised comments like yours. What might have happened if we hadn't created (and then supported) her love for the sport, so she could live it, even for a few seasons? If I had school-age kids now they would still get taken out. I will always know we offered the girls more than they would have got in that one or two weeks at school. As I have said we took school work with us and made sure it was done. Youngest has taken a different route into sport with a good degree but I know we, as parents, helped that spark too.
I am not naive enough to claim that the first trips were not for us to ski and the kids first absences were collateral but when they loved it too, it turned into a fantastic family activity.
I know what we did added to our kids' educations and had no detrimental influence whatsoever.
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I've only ever taken a full week out once - and that was when my work rotation meant I was offshore during the school holidays. I asked permission out of respect and the request was granted.
Covid game me a different perspective. I'm sure this was not the case for every LEA & school but in our area there wasn't a lot of teaching going on Remote schooling was non existent & when our son was permitted to attend school no teaching took place. I can't remember how long this nonsense went on for but it certainly put the 'crime' of unauthorised absence into perspective.
Thank goodness those days are behind us - but the nonsensical overreach and intrusion remains. I will qualify nonsensical. The school runs a ski trip in December which is wildly oversubscribed. If your kid is lucky enough to get a place on the trip, they can spend a week free of the cares of school and schoolwork during the academic term. If you are not lucky enough to get a place and take your kid skiing at exactly the same time, perhaps even in the same resort - you will be fined.
Not trying place blame here & I'm sure everyone is trying their best but the system itself is just nonsense.
Anyway, we usually just stick to the half terms. If it's necessary to take a couple of days off prior or post then we'll call in a sicky.
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