Dear Teacher please approve our ski trip....

A snowHead

Calling on those Snowheads with children in school..... has anyone been successful in getting an approved absence for the comming season?

Everything I have read is that there has been a much stronger position defined by the government, leaving reduced wiggle room for schools.

Having been in a fortunate position to have been taken out of school for a week a year by my parents and seen the value that gave me. I am keen to see what angles those that have been successful go for?

E.g. it's not a holiday it's race training with some modules in ski resort french.....

My daughter is comming up to 5 and this will be the difference between 2 weeks a year skiing or 1, so desperate to find a way! Shocked

A snowHead

Or even the perspective of teachers, what would tip the balance for you?

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I've just told my son's Junior School I'm taking him skiing in March and they are very relaxed about it. This year will be his 4th trip at that time of the year and its not been a problem.

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@Skiyeah, race training at 5, must be a good prospect.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Classic argument about how much the state should interfere in the way people bring up their children...... we always took ours out of school for cheap-week ski holidays, but that was a while ago.

And all the kids removed from school and "home educated"? Some are being conscientiously educated by dedicated parents. Some are Sara Sharif.

There's no easy answer.

For the schools it's hard because they are judged on so many indicators way outside their control, and "attendance" is right up there.

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I’m a teacher. Nothing would tip the balance for me. Whether an absence is logged as authorised and unauthorised is nothing to do with me. It’s decided on by the school management and they usually just follow the guidance from the DoE. Whether then any fine is issued is decided by the local authority usually.

Every school I’ve worked in usually just says, “Enjoy your holiday. It’ll be logged as an unauthorised absence.”

I’m now not in the U.K. and work at an international school. Even here we follow the guidance of the government. Any holiday would be logged as an unauthorised absence. A child going away for a training camp/competition would be authorised but we require a letter from the child’s club to confirm.

My opinion as a teacher about a holiday being educational for a child would be that they can get the same educational benefit if they went on that holiday during school holidays. The bonus here is that they’d also benefit from not missing out on any learning in school.

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I'd approach it in a "we're planning to go skiing, how can I make sure he's got school work to do whilst we're away".

My son is 5 and I don't reckon school would be fussed at all if you're a decent parent and are interested in their education.

They send books home to make sure we're reading to him and he's telling them we've just finished Charlie & The Chocolate Factory..... Unfortunately they have to cover all bases so it can feel like a blunt instrument.

Maybe donate to the school fundraiser if they have one as a bit of a token gesture?

After all it is free

Going by regular Snowheads choose a resort for me threads, eg “we’re taking our 11 and 13 year old the last week of January.

Just do it, everyone else is and take the fine. The social contract has broken down post lockdowns, many people doing as they please in a variety of ways.

Especially at senior school every week is a key component of the curriculum across all subjects, teachers haven’t the time to do it again for assorted absentees throughout the academic year.

If it was just a fine then I wouldn't think twice. The bit I would like to mitigate is the court appearance on the third strike, and it seems to have been ratcheted up this year:

https://www.gov.uk/school-attendance-absence/legal-action-to-enforce-school-attendance

"Fine
Your local council can give each parent a fine of £80, rising to £160 if you do not pay within 21 days.

From the 2024 to 2025 school year, each parent will only get up to 2 fines for the same child in a 3-year period.

If you get a second fine in 3 years it will be £160. If you do not pay the fine in 28 days you may be taken to court for keeping your child out of school.

If your child is off school 3 or more times within the 3 years you will not be fined but may be taken to court.

Check your local council’s rules on when you can be fined and how to pay a fine.

If you’re taken to court
You could get a fine of up to £2,500, a community order or a jail sentence up to 3 months. The court could also give you a Parenting Order."

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I would just ask the school, most are fairly relaxed. We did it for primary school, I wouldn’t do it now my son’s at secondary school as he’d miss a lot in the week. At primary we had no fine, they said they couldn’t approve but have a lovely time. My sister did get fined! I think if attendance all year is good, most will be pretty chilled.

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The link between school absence and educational attainment is bogus in the context of having a week out of school for a holiday.

The kids who fail at school due to poor attendance, are those with habitual truancy, often with absentee parenting. They don't get fined.

The stats are being misrepresented.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

We told the kids that if they did well at school exams, etc., they would get a week's skiing during school term.
Result: The kid did the work during the school term, and the school, whilst not being pleased initially, They came to see the value of the approach. https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

A snowHead

Just do it. Don’t worry about it. The world will keep turning. Have a great time, your child will thank you later!

A snowHead

I usually take my kids out of school to take them skiing, I have never been fined in maybe 8 weeks out of school. This year, I have decided not to and we are going on Saturday over Xmas instead. The situation with the fines and new rules has a small part to play in it.

The rules are being enforced more vigorously. One of my friends is the person at the LA that chases up the kids that have persistent absence and she said they are recruiting lots more people to pursue/enforce the new rules.

I have a slight issue in that my kids go to school at different local authorities and have different weeks off in February and Easter which is a complete PITA.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Has anyone asked the question " We are having to home school our child/ren for the week commencing DD/MM/YY due to extenuiating home circumstances which unfortunately cannot be disclosed to a third party" ?

It seems that in these days it may well proove acceptable.

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We took a half day (school closing at 12:30, but our flight took off at 7am), we put in forms requesting absence on grounds of daughters autism and trying to avoid the absolute scrum of weekend travel on school holidays due that. That wasn't approved either Sad

Being a half day under threshold for fines etc.

It sadly isn't just "it's cheaper" it is also its incredibly busy and overwhelming in school holidays. After that we did Easter in the resorts with less of a reputation for Easter (by that I mean ones like Val Thorens, Les Duex Alpes and La Plagne which had tried previously we also found very busy), Mayrhofen we have done quite a number of times now as proved reliable but doesn't draw the numbers.

We are trying Christmas week in Wagrain this year. Please wish us luck!!!

This coming week we are doing Christmas for first time

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@NickyJ, We've done a Christmas in Wagrain and had an amazing time! I'm surprised that Mayrhofen wasn't busy at Easter though - they normally run Snowbombing during the first week of the Easter hols.

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After all it is free

The schools have no say in this. They have to report it as unauthorised absence; the decision to fine is with the LEA. The fine is £80 per child per parent not £80 per child (which is odd if a couple have split up and one parent takes the children out of school). The trick to avoid any fines is to work with the school and say that you are taking your child out of school for a week of home tuition. You will have to evidence the work that has been done; skiiing is eductional. Mix in video evidence of skiing with learning some language skills, then written evidence of local cuisine, culture, flora and fauna etc. Demonstarte a week long project and I am sure the head will authorise a week of home schooling. https://www.gov.uk/home-education

I have 2 children and never taken them out for school for a holiday (although plenty do).
As far as I'm concerned, it was my decision to have kids, I knew the rules of the club when I joined as do every parent. You have to suck it up, afford what you can, save or go without.
We're going twice this year, new year and February half term. My kids are fully aware of the sacrifices I make to provide as much as I can for my kids that is a good lesson for them not being handed everything on a plate.

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The guidance from my LEA says that a "Notice to Improve" will be issued if they take more than 5 days unauthorised in a 10 week period, and then fines will normally only be introduced if the notice is not effective. The unauthorized absence can include things like being a few minutes late in the morning and missing the register.

We've always been fine taking a few days, but always make sure it's at the end of term, when they are winding down and miss very little work. We probably won't do it anymore once they get to secondary school.

You know it makes sense.

Just to add, I do believe the State is overreaching, school seems to apply when it suits them, which I do not agree with.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A kid with 60% attendance, who disrupts when they do attend, who wags school to stay home, to play video games, or because they simply CBA, won't have the threat of a fine.

Take your kid out for a ski trip and Big Brother is watching you.

A snowHead

A snowHead

With respect, I have been teaching since 2003, in the same organisation. I know exactly what I'm talking about.

The authority knows that the parents of those kids with habitual absenteeism are most often not in a position to stand financial penalties. It's not a route our LEA follows.

Those are the kids whose attendance correlates with poor GCSE outcomes, and those are the stats that are used to justify fining for holiday absences.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

"Nearly 400,000 penalty notices were issued to parents in England in 2022-23 for unauthorised pupil absences – much higher than pre-pandemic levels. Nearly nine in ten (89.3 per cent) of the fines were for unauthorised holidays as families booked cheaper breaks during term times, according to government figures."

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/school-absence-fine-parents-pupil-b2504292.html#:~:text=Nearly%20400%2C000%20penalty%20notices%20were,times%2C%20according%20to%20government%20figures

That's just 10% of fines targeting the parents of truants, as opposed to holiday absences.

Truancy is massively higher than holiday absence - the penalties are inversely proportional.

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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

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While we will always try to limit time off from school, we had to write "the letter" in 2023.

The response was pretty much "we can't authorise this, but have a great time"

This past year/season we went at Easter. Upcoming trip requires another letter and will be along the same lines as the last one - not expecting it to be authorised. Currently on 100% attendance, so the week absence will knock my daughter down to the schools lower allowed limit. We'll deal with any fines as they come.

It's easy to get hung up on worrying about it - the schools are between a rock and a hard place. If it became an accepted practice then there would be chaos. I view a ski trip very differently to a summer holiday of sitting around a pool for a week. So IMO I would rather take the week, enjoy the trip outside of the half term holiday crowds and make sure kids work hard at school the rest of the time.

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After all it is free

We just go at Christmas and Easter. Lots to like about going then anyway.

This is our last year dictated by school holidays - yay!

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I took both my kids out all the way through. Never harmed them and I suspect they learned more in all our holiday weeks. They both ended with enough UCAS points to sink a ship and did the Uni courses they wanted. A few of the teachers used to ask "where are you going?

One thing I will say though is we did always speak to the head or head of year and take homework with us - which they then crammed when they got home on the Saturday afternoon or while driving back through France when in Senior School. Therefore the school would sign it off as an "authorised" absence. My wife and I stipulated that the work had to be done even though we gave them a wide rope on the actual trip.

And over the years they learned many important French words and phrases:

Vert, Bleu, Rouge, Noir.

"Deux Tartiflette avec Salad Vert et deux Spaghetti Carbonara s'il vous plait"

"Deux Pression et deux Cokes"

"puis-je avoir un vin chaud pour ma mère"

Invaluable education not covered at school that they took into adult life - and whilst I am taking the p***, there is a serious side to this as the language provision in schools is pitiful.

And anyway.....In their younger years they were still in school anyway - Ski School.

Help!!

Dear Teacher please approve our ski trip....

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