 Poster: A snowHead
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
My wife and I paid $250 Canadian each for a 1 day ticket at Whistler in March this year = roughly £150.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
That is a number used to make almost everyone buy something else.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
@mountainaddict, yep it's the US ski corporations business model, make everyone buy their season passes. Not very helpful if you're a non US based skier visiting for a week or two and want to ski for a few days at different ski areas which may be on different season passes. 
Fortunately there are still a few locally owned ski areas in the US with much more reasonably priced day tickets e.g Bridger Bowl. Adult day ticket $82 (if bought online), Senior (70-79) $48 online or window price, Super Senior (80 & over) Free!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| Quote: |
Not very helpful if you're a non US based skier visiting for a week or two and want to ski for a few days at different ski areas which may be on different season passes.
|
AirBnB vs hotel.
AirBnB would prefer you rent for a week. But if you want a place to sleep for 1or 2 nights, it cost you a lot more per night.
You can also get a Mountain Collective Pass, which gives you exactly what you need. Of course not all the resorts are on it (but Aspen is)
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
versus about €40 a day for a 6 day pass at Espace Killy
|
How many years ago is that price from?! It works out €71 per day now on a 6 day pass (€426)
| Quote: |
Not very helpful if you're a non US based skier visiting for a week or two and want to ski for a few days at different ski areas which may be on different season passes.
|
Early bird epic season pass price - €920. Europe big resorts are over €70 per day. So the break even point is around 13 days.
I'd argue that it's not apples to apples anyway. For example I'd happily pay a surplus for n America in bounds avalanche controlled off piste.
There are even cheaper options too. For example lake Louise spring pass was around €420, so same for week skiing as a euro resort.
| Quote: |
AirBnB would prefer you rent for a week. But if you want a place to sleep for 1or 2 nights, it cost you a lot more per night.
|
Exactly, it's not an uncommon model. 99% gyms in UK will charge a huge amount for single use in comparison to yearly membership.
| Quote: |
Just hope this sort of corporate strategy doesn't make its way to Europe!
|
I'm actually the opposite. For someone relatively time rich money poor Europe skiing is not good value imo. The idea of a €1000 pass covering 5 or 6 of the biggest resorts would actually tempt me to do a season.
I do realise there are options like Tirol card and magic pass. They certainly offer value and plenty of skiing. But I'm greedy and want the very top resorts on a pass like in n America.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
mountainaddict, Coincidentally we were in Aspen that year too, part of a roadtrip using the Mountain Collective pass - daily cost of skiing there $ 40 IIRC.
Day rates are just there to encourage a season pass purchase, or something similar like the MC. It would be interesting to know how many day tickets they sell a season
Last edited by After all it is free  on Sat 7-12-24 16:57; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
It's been the case for a decade or more - the key to skiing in N America is plan ahead, buy a megapass and stick to it.
Don't think the Euro megapass is far away looking at the respectable rosters lined up under Epic and Ikon already. No idea how they would revenue share on a more extensive model though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
It may irk the Brits to no end, but I’ve pointed that out before. US mountains don’t cater to British ski habits. They target to American skiers ski vacation style.
For us, THIS is the golden age of skiing in term of ski economy. Sub-$1000 season pass to ski as many days as one pleases. A trip to a top tier resort for a week and many weekends in one’s local resort.
(Ok, the best time had already passed. Go back 10 years when these mega pass were first introduced. Now, the mega pass prices had gone up and the slopes are far more crowded than pre-pandemic)
On the last point, the crowding on the mountain is a testament of the “success” (popularity) with the local market. For better or worse, American skiers are happily shelling out the $$ to ski a lot, whether it’s by daily tickets or by season passes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| abc wrote: |
| It may irk the Brits to no end, but I’ve pointed that out before. US mountains don’t cater to British ski habits. They target to American skier. |
Of course, the US mountains target the US skier market, entirely understandably.
I think the OP was just commenting on the difference he experienced to the situation that pertains in the Alps.
When I first skied in the US in the late 1980s and early 1990s walk up day ticket prices were quite reasonable, which suited me in particular as I was driving round in a rental car visiting several different ski locations for a day or two each, e.g Crested Butte, Aspen, Telluride, Breckenridge. I'm glad I had the flexibility to do that without much pre-planning, but I accept that if I do that now I'll need to buy a season pass early on and have at least 2 weeks skiing days to make it worthwhile. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
It would be interesting to know how many day tickets they sell a season
|
It's aspen. I suspect plenty of their wealthy clientele buy day passes. But they are probably not looking at the price!
@abc, completely agree. I think it's a bit self-entitled that Brits complain the passes aren't set up to suit them. Why should resorts go out their way to appeal to such a small market, who only want to use your product 10-14 days every couple of years.
The passes offer excellent value for locals and people looking to ski a lot. I can't be upset that a pass suits those groups more than "holiday skiers".
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
It's not all Brits who are stupid, although obviously some are. You can't fix that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| Quote: |
I'll need to buy a season pass early on and have at least 2 weeks skiing days to make it worthwhile.
|
Worthwhile is very subjective.
From a purely cost point of view 4 days skiing at Vail and full epic pass breaks even with walk up rate. In terms of matching Europe it really depends what pass you buy. For most Brits going outside Xmas and NY epic local pass probably does the job and cost about €700. So break even with the big euro resorts would be around 9-10 days - and I suspect not many Brits would be travelling that far for a shorter ski holiday anyway.
But like I said before you can't just look at price directly, they are 2 different products. I'd happily pay a bit more for what I think is a better experience in n america. (Fwiw I'm not saying n America is necessarily better - but it happens to tick boxes I'm personally looking for).
I do find it amusing snowheads complain about the idea of having to buy a lift pass in advance to get the best deal, as though it is some unbelievably foreign concept. While simultaneously having whole threads about when airlines are releasing flights so they can buy them a long time in advance and get the best deal possible.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| boarder2020 wrote: |
| Quote: |
It would be interesting to know how many day tickets they sell a season
|
@abc, completely agree. I think it's a bit self-entitled that Brits complain the passes aren't set up to suit them. Why should resorts go out their way to appeal to such a small market, who only want to use your product 10-14 days every couple of years.
|
There's no self entitlement whatsoever - just a reasonable observation that USA day tickets generally cost a P-taking price. How anybody can disagree is beyond me. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
@Bergmeister, nobody is disagreeing a walk up day pass is ridiculously expensive. They are simply pointing out the vast majority of people don't pay anything close to that price. To the the point it's almost just an artificial price put in place to make other options look more attractive and fleece those that are too wealthy to care. Most skiers at Vail (omg $250 per day!) are probably paying no more per day skiing each season than most Brit skiers.
But I'm sure you can find someone that's bought a dominoes at full price and complained it's expensive, when the vast majority would just wait and get 2-4-1 on Tuesdays.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| Quote: |
| How many years ago is that (Espace Killy) price from?! It works out €71 per day now on a 6 day pass (€426) |
That was Espace Killy price 6 or 7 years ago (ie around the time of the Aspen visit that I mentioned), when the more days you bought, the cheaper the daily rate. Prices have rocketed there too and the daily rate is no cheaper for six days than for one (but at least day seven is free  ).
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
No one in their right mind buys walk up tickets.
North American skiing is great value considering gapers like me can safely ski the whole hill without being overly concerned about getting buried.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@sbooker, not with regularity anyway. But I did spend $185 to ski Jackson for a day last season just for nostalgia and variety (on a trip to Grand Targhee).
As for @phil_w, allow me to finish your sentence: "paying for the flexibility they desire".
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Chiming in on a few points from a different perspective.
First of all, yes, walk up prices in NA are ridiculous. But literally nobody buys those. There are lots of different ways available to get that reduced.
The walk up tickets in Europe are NOT high priced. Yes, they have been going up. But compared to US walk up rates, 70€ is nothing.
Not sure what someone was saying about not having Mega resort passes in Europe. Especially for Austria. Besides Arlberg, show me a major resort that is not covered by Tirol or Salzburg passes.
Also not sure about this concept of getting more in NA for money because of avy control. All that does is lead to it being tracked out by 11am. As someone that lives in a NA ski town, I love skiing in Europe because it is NOT controlled, and everyone sticks to the groomers. You can find fresh turns 4 days after a storm that way! And don't even get me started on the ease of access to really big mountain lines in Europe without even needing skins compared to NA.
Let's face it. It isn't a cheap hobby. But with strategic buying, you can actually ski more resorts for less percentage of your annual earnings than ever before.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
There are lots of different ways available to get that reduced.
|
That’s correct.
Just today, I was reminded by a friend yet another way: you can buy (before December 1st) “Epic day pass” in advance at roughly $70-90/day. It can be used in all of Vail resorts. Pretty much any day, I believe. That’s really not all that expensive, is it? All you have to do is remember to buy it by a certain deadline. That’s really no different than buying flights to Geneva in the summer, is it not?
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| TOLOCOMAN wrote: |
| But literally nobody buys those. |
Well, such tickets are limited by Vail and Alterra, so somebody is buying them. Of course, that's partly to scare you into paying much earlier and taking some risk so they can win at the real game, cash flow.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
@TOLOCOMAN, all the obvious stuff also gets tracked out in Europe. In Europe I need partners and avy equipment, and I have to make smart decisions and think or hire a guide which completely negatives the day pass being cheaper. In n America I can just go solo and enjoy without a care. It's a huge convenience I personally would be willing to pay more.
There are other things about n American resorts that I personally find preferable. I won't list them as they are subjective and this doesn't need to be a n American Vs Europe thread. My point was you get a different experience in n America and for some of us that it suits we would maybe consider paying more anyway. As you are getting different experiences it seems slightly simplistic to just compare prices directly. If I told you Japan lift pass was $30 more per day than Europe but you were guaranteed fresh deep powder, you'd probably think Japan was a better deal.
Who cares about Austria?  I joke, but as you acknowledge the number 1 resort there is not on the passes. Dream euro megapass would be; verbier, Chamonix, 3 valleys, st Anton and Tignes Val D. To be honest a pass with unrestricted access at any 3 of them plus a few interesting smaller resorts e.g. la grave, somewhere in Andorra, somewhere in Italy. Sell it at epic pass cost. Would be incredible. I'm not suggesting this is realistic. But then when I did my season at whistler we found out the next year the resort was joining epic, which would undercut last year's season price quite significantly and give access to a whole bunch of other top resorts which seemed rather unbelievable.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@abc, in USA do internal flights stay a relatively constant price regardless of how far in advance you buy them?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| boarder2020 wrote: |
| @abc, in USA do internal flights stay a relatively constant price regardless of how far in advance you buy them? |
No.
Flight prices in US is a bit of a mystery. It often fluctuates wildly. Generally speak, the more advance you buy them, the cheaper it is. Still, it isn’t the $10 flight as over the pond. Maybe 1/2 off the peak fare. Unfortunately, I worked a random schedule, usually couldn’t partake.
But all is not lost. More often than not, there’re last minute sales a week or two ahead of the flight. So there’re still ways to jump on a flight without mortgaging my house. (It helps I live in a city with 3 airports. I have a ton of flights to choose from)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
Last years it was very noticeable the increase in the number of American tourists in the Dolomites areas. Having spoken to some, they come to Europe because is way cheaper. If you have only one week of hols in winter time and you live far away from the slopes, the epic pass is stupidly expensive for six days skiing. Not surprised so many have now swapped the Rockies for the Alps
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
Agreed, I grew up in NY but live in the UK, and more and more of my friends from the east coast are coming to Europe to ski. Partly because the Epic and Ikon now have European resorts, but mainly because it's so much cheaper even if they don't have those passes. Even at the top end, if you're not at all price sensitive and want a 5 star ski in ski out luxury ski trip and you live in NY, it's hard to ignore the fact that Europe is a bargain compared to the Rockies. Just had a quick sample look at Prez Week/Half term in Feb and from NY, you can fly to Zurich or Milan for cheaper than Salt Lake/Denver. And all the big 5 star hotels in Park City/Deer Valley/Beaver Creek are £1,500++ a night for a regular room not including even breakfast. An Alps Club Med with the kids or a 5 star hotel in places like Lech, Zermatt or the Dolomites can be 40-50% cheaper and include half board. Then add in the fact that ski rentals and ski school are so much cheaper in the Alps and it's a no brainer, at least for the time being.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
I'm glad I did my skiing in The States when lift passes were affordable...As there is no way I can justify it at current prices.
I can remember skiing at Alta in around 1987, when it was half the price of its expensive neighbour (Snowbird) and very good value.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
It’s got relatively little to do with epic/ikon passes. It’s the mighty dollar!
The epic/ikon passes affect the destination resorts they go to though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| abc wrote: |
It’s got relatively little to do with epic/ikon passes. It’s the mighty dollar!
The epic/ikon passes affect the destination resorts they go to though. |
Yep! And they especially affect the residents in the resorts that are partner resorts that aren't owned by Alterra. For them, they don't get an Ikon Pass, or even any discount on it. All they get is the influx of people with no benefit. At least if you live at an Alterra owned resort your season pass becomes an Ikon Pass and you get a benefit to the extra crowds.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| TOLOCOMAN wrote: |
| Yep! And they especially affect the residents in the resorts that are partner resorts that aren't owned by Alterra. For them, they don't get an Ikon Pass, or even any discount on it. |
That’s not entirely true. Jackson Hole isn’t owned by Ikon. But the season pass holders get an Ikon pass. (There maybe others too. It’s just Jackson being the most talked about).
I also vaguely recall someone mentioned they’re going over the pond because their season pass gives them some free days in the US. So it’s up to the resort(s) that choose to partner with Vail/Alterra to negotiate the detail of the deal.
| Quote: |
All they get is the influx of people with no benefit. At least if you live at an Alterra owned resort your season pass becomes an Ikon Pass and you get a benefit to the extra crowds.
|
Even that is not true. A-basin is owned by Alterra. But it’s only limited days for Ikon pass holder. If you want to ski AB for more than 5/7 days, you have to buy a separate AB pass. The manager of the resort (or Alterra) decided the resort can’t handle the crowd from unlimited days.
The “extra influx of people” does have benefits to the resort owner. It’s just how (or if at all) that filters to the residents. I bet the local business owners (restaurants/bars) like the extra business those people brings?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
It is good to have a choice !
For my annual skiing budget I have 2 options:
Buy IKON/Epic and ski 10 days in NA or
Just fly to Europe (flights are about the same as flying elsewhere in NA, 2 major airports and still $500 to Denver !?), pick the place and ski 20 days ...
With some Euro resorts included in Epic/Ikon, 3rd option could be 7/8 days at each continent with incentive to dream of Japan ...
still to try it 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| abc wrote: |
| TOLOCOMAN wrote: |
| Yep! And they especially affect the residents in the resorts that are partner resorts that aren't owned by Alterra. For them, they don't get an Ikon Pass, or even any discount on it. |
That’s not entirely true. Jackson Hole isn’t owned by Ikon. But the season pass holders get an Ikon pass. (There maybe others too. It’s just Jackson being the most talked about).
I also vaguely recall someone mentioned they’re going over the pond because their season pass gives them some free days in the US. So it’s up to the resort(s) that choose to partner with Vail/Alterra to negotiate the detail of the deal.
| Quote: |
All they get is the influx of people with no benefit. At least if you live at an Alterra owned resort your season pass becomes an Ikon Pass and you get a benefit to the extra crowds.
|
Even that is not true. A-basin is owned by Alterra. But it’s only limited days for Ikon pass holder. If you want to ski AB for more than 5/7 days, you have to buy a separate AB pass. The manager of the resort (or Alterra) decided the resort can’t handle the crowd from unlimited days.
The “extra influx of people” does have benefits to the resort owner. It’s just how (or if at all) that filters to the residents. I bet the local business owners (restaurants/bars) like the extra business those people brings? |
That's new to me if JH pass holders get full Ikon benefits without paying any upgrade. Usually have to be at one of the owned resorts to get that.
Don't expect the limited days to last long at the Basin now that the deal has fully gone through.
The resort does get a bit more business/money out of it. The residents not so much. And I guess it depends on what hill we're talking about as far as how it impacts business owners profits in town. Certainly where I am, where 80% of revenue is in the summer, the Ikon people don't impact the bottom line of a business at all. About all it does is make the hill busier. Fortunately, they rarely ski any good terrain!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| TOLOCOMAN wrote: |
| abc wrote: |
| TOLOCOMAN wrote: |
| Yep! And they especially affect the residents in the resorts that are partner resorts that aren't owned by Alterra. For them, they don't get an Ikon Pass, or even any discount on it. |
That’s not entirely true. Jackson Hole isn’t owned by Ikon. But the season pass holders get an Ikon pass. (There maybe others too. It’s just Jackson being the most talked about). |
That's new to me if JH pass holders get full Ikon benefits without paying any upgrade. Usually have to be at one of the owned resorts to get that. |
I’m afraid you aren’t terribly well informed. I decided to check another resort, Sun Valley, which I don’t believe is owned by Alterra, also includes an Ikon pass with its season pass.
| Quote: |
Don't expect the limited days to last long at the Basin now that the deal has fully gone through.
|
You’re merely speculating there.
And given you really haven’t kept up with developments on this issue, I can’t give your opinion much weight.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Quote: |
The resort does get a bit more business/money out of it. The residents not so much.
|
What percentage of jobs in Banff have no link to tourism? All the hotels, restaurants, bars, shops probably benefit in some way. When you live in a place where tourism is the main income it seems like more tourists certainly benefit a lot of the local people.
| Quote: |
Certainly where I am, where 80% of revenue is in the summer, the Ikon people don't impact the bottom line of a business at all.
|
I find this a strange take. So many ski resorts are desperate to increase summer tourism to make it a more sustainable year round business. In an area where tourism is the main income I would think increasing "off-season" income can only be a good thing for everyone?
| Quote: |
About all it does is make the hill busier. Fortunately, they rarely ski any good terrain!
|
Interesting that my friends in Whistler say something similar. They village is much busier, but all the good terrain doesn't get tracked any faster.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| abc wrote: |
| Quote: |
There are lots of different ways available to get that reduced.
|
That’s correct.
Just today, I was reminded by a friend yet another way: you can buy (before December 1st) “Epic day pass” in advance at roughly $70-90/day. It can be used in all of Vail resorts. Pretty much any day, I believe. That’s really not all that expensive, is it? All you have to do is remember to buy it by a certain deadline. That’s really no different than buying flights to Geneva in the summer, is it not? |
This! Nobody pays last minute prices… do they? I bought my Whistler 4 day pass in September I think. It didn’t feel an unreasonable cost compared to a short stay in my usual French or Swiss resorts. The ski hire was also very keenly priced.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
