 Poster: A snowHead
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Right you lot. You may or may not remember a question I posted in this very boutique a month or so back about a change of direction I was considering. To refresh your memories (it IS the night following the morning after the BBQ night before....) I was thinking of using my enormous amounts of ski trip arranging experience in some lucrative way. This would benefit me both in terms of my soul (I HATED the job I was in) and would also if all went well, provide me with a modest living and the fun of doing something that I positively enjoy 
Well, due in so small part to the overall positive response that you all gave my idea (for which I thank you), I have gone ahead, left the hateful job, am doing something part time and temporary to keep the wolf from the door, and have been working on (pauses for dramatic effect and drum roll.....) www.madaboutsnow.com Tadaaah!
At the risk of appearing to pimp (which I'm truly not) can any of you who have the time, please take a look at the website and give an honest (if not too painful) opinion? It has only been finished in the last hour so I'm aware that some tweaking will be needed, but views as to overall effect etc would be gratefully received. I do intend advertising on the new and improved Snow Shops and have made enquiries but that isn't ready yet. There will, of course, be the traditional discount to SnowHeads and donation to the site for any business via this route.
Thanks ever so 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Are you ABTA bonded?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Kramer, No I'm not - I will have insurance by the time this goes live, but as I'm not arranging packages I understand I am not a tour operator. The flights element will either be booked direct by the traveller with a 'no frills' airline or via an IATA/ABTA/ATOL bonded travel agent. I will be the person in the middle - a bit like a wedding planner, but without the cake. Do you think I SHOULD be ABTA bonded?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Why does skiing keep having a hyphen "ski-ing"?
and is "specially" a word in the english language?
First page seems to have too much writing...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Madaboutsnow, I don't know the details, but your website looks suspiciously like a travel agent to me?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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little tiger, Thanks - typos will be corrected
Kramer, OK - what do you think makes that impression and/or any ideas how to avoid looking 'suspicious'? I thought it the site makes it clear that I would be researching, planning and offering accommodation options and helping to organise ski school etc., but NOT arranging flights - there are links to easyjet and ryanair on the Links page. The concept of the service is akin to event organising. If that's not clear, it may be that I am too close having worked on it for a while, and need to step back and view it from another angle. Thanks for your input so far
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To be honest if I wanted someone to organise a trip for me I wouldn't want to deal with the hassle of booking flights and/or car hire myself. Having had some experience of complex groups - multiple departure points & arrival times/car hire with the right number of confident drivers that is where some real value can be added. As I understand it by the time you've added in more than 1 element you potentially become a tour operator.
Testimonials look suspiciously like a bunch of your friends from the same area this is probably unfair as I seem to remember from your earlier post you have organised groups socially before).
A bit of a personal bio would help - if punters are buying you personally as a service. It would be nice if you've negotiated discounts with some preferred suppliers so the personal service isn't really costing anything - you'd need to balance that against independence & objectivity though.
Hope the critique is constructive.
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Madaboutsnow, there are alternatives to ABTA bonding, but looking at your site, I would think I was dealing with a travel agency. By bringing together accommodation, and extras such a ski passes, I think that counts as an agency.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Helen Beaumont, Thanks - can you pm with any details of the alternatives to see if any fit please? The other elements, as with the transfers, are often arranged by the accommodation in any case, as part of their service, whether I am involved or not. If they can't do it then I won't provide it, making that clear if such a property is otherwise well-suited to the clients. If I am looking like a travel agent, when I am trying to be a conduit, any ideas as to how to avoid that?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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fatbob, Hi - the personal bio is on the agenda. As to the discounts - your last sentence there is exactly the thing. I would ned to be very sure that if I were suggesting a specific accommodation it was because it was the best possible match not because of anything else. If somewhere WAS perfect and a discount was negotiated/offered too - woohoo! My research has shown that just having this big chunk of work taken away from a group or family booking was worth it to some people; if there were any discounts to offset the my fee then that would be the icing
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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madaboutsnow
I thought you would be doing it - just looking att the site...
perhaps in "how does madaboutsnow work" have a cuple of sentences that explain exactly what you envisage (just like above)
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little tiger, hi -
Quote:
I thought you would be doing it - just looking att the site...
not sure what you mean?
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You know it makes sense.
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Madaboutsnow, please don't take this criticism personally, as it's not meant to be, just trying to give you the low down on what I think. Uncharacteristically for me I've spent ages deciding what to write.
I'm not quite sure where your profit will come from with this business model. My confusion over whether you're a travel agent comes from the fact that I can't see the point in paying someone to organise part of my holiday. To be honest if I can't organise ski school and accomodation myself, then flights, transfers and accomodation are probably beyond me as well, and the counterpoint being that if I have to organise flights, transfer, and accomodation then I may as well go the whole hog and arrange the whole thing. I'm not sure that there are many people who fall in between.
Organising a group holiday is hard, I've done it myself a few times, and it's a thankless task, but I'm not sure that there are many people who would pay for it, when there are so many websites these days that can do it for you.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Also I think that if your concept takes so much explanation then it needs a little refining.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Madaboutsnow wrote: |
little tiger, hi -
Quote:
I thought you would be doing it - just looking att the site...
not sure what you mean? |
the way it looked was you would do the booking.... maybe I did not look well enough....
but if I was you i'd spell it out it gorey detail so it is clear you won't right from the start...
"we are not a travel agent"
"we are here to assist you in arranging your holiday yourself"
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Kramer, little tiger, OK Thanks - I think as I said a bit higher up, because I am so close to this and it is clear to me, I am not explaining it clearly enough - I'll go back to the website and do just that as per little tigers point above.
Kramer, No offence taken - I DID ask for opinions! Thanks for taking the uncharacteristically long time to work out how to say it 
I think perhaps when - as for most of us here - organising a ski or any other holiday on a DIY basis is easy (ish), it can be forgotten that for newcomers to DIY or for families organising the first trip involving children, it can be a nightmare. As I've said here - but perhaps not explained clearly enough on the website - most accommodation will arrange the transfers, ski school, equipment etc as part of their service. This is done for ME when I book DIY and I accept the help, even though I could do it myself, as the accommodation owners know the resort and suppliers. This will leave just the booking of the flights, but there is plenty of help available with that part. My service will find out what they want/need from the holiday, find the most suitable match for their budget, liaise with the owners, make sure that the clients know what clothing and equipment is needed and not needed, etc. It is because I have done this for so many people who have been in precisely this position that I have felt there may be a niche. I may of course be wrong, but if I don't give it a very good try, I'll never know and will be sitting in my armchair at the age of 80 wondering 'what if.....'
Thanks for all your input - lots of food for thought
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I don't understand quite how/when you collect your 10%. If you give people ideas about suitable accommodation, what's to stop them going ahead and booking it themselves, and not giving you the 10% (a bit like people who spend all day picking the brains of experts at a local hi fi shop, then order the equipment they need on the internet?). Or would you actually be providing and selling accommodation? At what point would you enter into a contractual arrangement with the holiday maker and/or the provider of accommodation?
If I was going to use your site I would want the "who arranges what and who pays who(m)" to be spelt out at the outset. I can sympathise, having spent many an hour arranging other people's ski holidays (for nothing...) with your desire to turn your hard-won knowledge and experience into a business, but I suspect you will need to take a step further, which will inevitably require you to invest some resources and probably take on some risk.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Madaboutsnow,
Wasn't trying to cause offence just trying to look on it as a punter. At the moment I'd be hard pushed to use your service but then I'm not your target market. I part organised an office trip last year which could have used your services but the key value you could have added was finding good quality self catered accomodation within our budget for 3 nights in a popular resort. We wouldn't have needed you to find the resort, sort lift passes, ski school etc so that would not have been something you'd have earned commission on.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Madaboutsnow, sorry if I'm being stupid, but if most accomodation offer help with transfers, ski school etc, I don't see a space for you. I also think there's a big difference between what people will accept for free, and what they'll pay for.
Also, what about repeat business, you put a group in an ideal chalet, the next time they go, they contact the chalet owner directly and so cut out the middle man, if they haven't already.
How much are you going to charge for this service?
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Madaboutsnow, Please correct me if wrong..........you take the various bits of info provided by the questionnaire,suggest matches for resort,chalet etc BUT,all the bookings are done by the punter?They also have to match all this up with suitable,and available flights?In short,an information resource and no more?And at what point will you tell them they have to pay before you part with this information?Sorry to be slightly negative,but we are posting on one of the best snow related information resources I know,and its free
On the positive side,I'm sure you are right;there is a market for tailored DIY.Loads of people must be fed up with the antics of the major TO's,where you are forced to accept their holiday rather than yours.Equally sure there are plenty of people who would go down the DIY route,if they knew how  The BIG question IMHO,is how are you going to reach them?And how are you going to convince people to pay for just information?Have to say your front page looks like just one of the many 'ski sites',and didn't really grab me.My concern would be that,having contacted you,all I would get is information,the donkeywork would still be down to me.People are basically lazy;if you are not able(or willing)to offer a comprehensive service,most would go to someone who can(and there are lots of them)It then follows that you would have to become more of an agent,and that's a whole different ball game!!
Sorry to be negative,but I believe you need to think very carefully about your target market,how you are going to reach them and,most importantly,how you are going to convince them of the benefits of using you.
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Kramer, snowskisnow, OK Thanks - sorry for delay in replying - I went to bed!
Lots to re-consider and the whole point of posting here was to get other angles - certainly did that! I'll go away, try to reign in my enthusiasm, and come bck with a rethought product - or not.
Have a good day all
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Madaboutsnow, Looking at your website's code validation there are a lot of errors. That may affect your search-engine rating, and cross-browser support. I think the site has a nice, clean look, however, the text is low-contrast - cool, but will cause reading difficulties for some. I agree with the earlier comment of calling your image sizes correctly.
Personally, I would rather have an on-line option finder, rather than having to ring you up. A guest book is great, but I would prefer to see existing entries - even if, at the moment, it would be just one from yourself.
Hope this helps. And the very best of luck with your venture.
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I do have to say, I do think that the initial premise for tailored holidays at the cheaper end of the market is a good one, in that noone else seems to be doing it, however I would wonder again, where your profit margins are going to come from? It would seem to me that to keep it cheap you need to keep your margin wafer thin, and if that's the case, how much time are you going to be able to realistically spend on each holiday finding accomodation etc to make it viable?
Please don't think that I'm trying to rain on your parade, all I'm doing is trying to point out the flaws, as I see them in your plan, best to find them at this stage, rather than when you've gone too far.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Mon 31-07-06 9:23; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Yup, Madaboutsnow, I agree with Kramer. Hope you have done some sort of business plan, to satisfy yourself and backers that your plan is viable. Projected profit and loss, and cash-flow analysis, of course. But don't forget SWOT = strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, threats. Sometimes a niche in a market is there because no one else has thought of, or can do it. Often, though, it's because it does not make business sense to fill it.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Nick Zotov, Kramer, Thanks for the more positive comments - was beginning to feel a bit foolish but appreciate the good intentions. Enough for now I think! I'll go back to the drawing board and try to fill the gaps (if they are fillable....) If not, well there you go. Have a good day all
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Madaboutsnow,
There may be a bit of a clash here as many of the posters organise themselves very well and you apear to be catering for people who don't quite know what's going on.
Good luck with your venture
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You know it makes sense.
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It may have already been said, or it might be just me, but the light grey font is a little hard to read on my laptop screen....
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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JT, Thank you - that is more the case! Mark2010, Noted - will be changing that too! Thanks again
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Poster: A snowHead
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JT, true. But there are already organizations like Ski Solutions, who don't just cater for top-end (though their brand image may be otherwise).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I'm not saying these points aren't valid, just don't be disheartened. Make it work if you want to
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Madaboutsnow, Hope you got my PM ok. Remeber when we were just starting up facing all types of pretty hard questions about the details which you may of slightly pushed to one side in the excitement of getting the bigger things going. Don't be disheartened though if you go away and think about all the comments made you will end up with a much stronger product that hopefully will eventually make you some money! If you haven't already done one a business plan is a really good way of focusing your thoughts and making sure that you are clear where your project is taking you.
Keep going!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Madaboutsnow wrote: |
| HE is actually a SHE |
Obviously, otherwise she wouldn't have been asking advice.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Mon 31-07-06 16:58; edited 1 time in total
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You guys are taking a walk on the wild side...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Wear The Fox Hat, ah, now you are talking vintage.
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FAQ
Still, if one puts ones head over the parapet....
HE is actually a SHE 
