 Poster: A snowHead
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UK Sport have announced Winter Olympic funding for the four years leading up to Vancouver.
Bob Skeleton will be funded to the tune of two million pounds, whilst funding for Alpine Skiing and Boarding is halved (compared to the four years leading up to Turin) to under one million for both...
More info on j2ski's Skiing News.
So, that's proportional to the number of participants, not... and it sends a pretty clear signal that if you're not a medal prospect you're worth nothing!
Surely, government funds (that'd be our money) should be used for the greater good and should support popular sports as well? With the number of people who now ski or board, we must have a big enough talent pool to produce some medal-winners with the right support.
What do Snowheads think? Should we support the sports people actually participate in for fun, or should we aim for a five-man strong Olympic squad of the most fantastic Curling experts the world has ever seen?
Next up, all 2012 funding to be focussed on tiddlywinks as that's our best chance for a medal...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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UK Sport AKA Sport England (Lottery fund distributer)
Quango representing the views of "Middle England"........or left wing dominated social engineering machine at the beck and call of shadowy left wing masters.....
Discuss......
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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No great surprise, it hasn't occured to any of the idiots in charge that in order to have competitors who might win a medal you first have to have competitors.
They did the same thing with sailing, one of our gold medal ? teams at Athens only took part after they'd paid for their own boat etc.
By the way does anyone think that given the current record of government/council projects finishing on time and on budget we ought to be worrying about the Olympic facilities for 2012 ?
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D G Orf, I doubt even Wembley will be open by then 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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D G Orf, wouldn't be anything to do with skiing and sailing being considered posh people's sport would it? 
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laundryman, most of the skiers I've ever met would be classed as middle class, a few as from deprived backgrounds and barely a handful as posh
As for sailing ask crasy skier jules if she's posh !
FenlandSkier, well the staircases should be ok at wembly because I did the animations that show how to fit them !
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D G Orf, my experience too - just being ironic!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Well, if every one of the 4657 Snowheads were to donate a tenner, we'd be 10% of the way towards making up for the loss in funding 
I'm not seriously suggesting that. Merely playing devil's advocate, and thinking perhaps that UK Sport see mass-participation sports as more capable of generating their "own" funding, and therefore less needy of government funding.
Mind you, since my first days on the British Team (the Early Pleistocene!), people have always said "If only we could get every British person who goes on a ski holiday to donate one pound, we'd have a million quid just like that". But no-one has ever, ever managed to even come close to translating that into reality.
In the end, they have to go with performance rather than participation, otherwise we'd have really well-funded Olympic teams for the events of "walking the dog" and "going down the pub"...
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| J2Dave wrote: |
What do Snowheads think? Should we support the sports people actually participate in for fun, or should we aim for a five-man strong Olympic squad of the most fantastic Curling experts the world has ever seen?
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or neither? There is the argument that backing sports we are good at maintains the status quo and ossifies sport but at the same time backing sports we have little chance in: Downhill skiing, football etc is just an embaressment.
I think we should back sports we have some reasonable prospects in and that are mass participation on a regular basis, not just on a week's holiday now and then for 2% of the population. On that basis a million quid for skiing and boarding seems reasonable... given that a season's ski bumming can be done for about 10k that is 20 competitors who can ski and board full time and don't forget the sponsorship extras. That is until dry skiing or snowdome slalom becomes an Olympic sport that is.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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How about taxing everybody less (the lottery is a tax on the statistically ignorant and wildly optimistic) and letting people pay their own way at whatever they want to do - including public appeals form the sports bodies who wish to fund Olympic athletes? The democracy of the wallet would then show if people really wished to support such effort. If they don't, then people shouldn't be paying against their will, anyway. If they do, then there is no problem.
Tax people less. Give them their money back. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Nick Zotov, too true. Unfortunately, our current chancellor is a dyed in the wool Stalinist. Given the evidence for centrally planned economies on a large scale you'd think he might have realised his policies are poisonous but clearly he's not smart enough to see beyond his own political ambitions.
But back to the thread. davidof, What sports do we have mass participation in? As a small sample of one (me) - all of my associates do the following: ski/snowboard, run, lift weights, drink, skate/blade, wind/kite/surf, sunbathe, eat fine food, drive. Of ALL my friends, several are ardent football fans but only ONE actually PLAYS football.
So if participation is the criteria, we should throw money at a weekend marathon where you have to drive to France, eat at as many Michelin starred restaurants and consume as much fine wine as you can on the way, ski as much as you can, get a tan, carry your own luggage up the apartment stairs and drive back to your home in time for work on a Monday morning. I incorporate the running part of this in the sprints to and from one's gentleman's carriage. We would christen it the "Snowball Rally"?? (P.S. I have done quite a lot of training for it already...)
Not spending money supporting skiing and snowboarding is disappointing. Spending it on marginal sports (sorry curlers, I know there are lots of you in Scotland) just because we might get a medal because no one else is interested is pathetic.
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One mass participation sport is cycling.
I had a quick look to see if I could find out how many people were registered with British Cycling as competitors but haven't found it yet.
They have a good website too. Maybe an example of what could be done for UK Snowsports if the aims of Modernization are achieved.
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You know it makes sense.
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Perhaps we will be world-beaters at hand-held computer games, if they ever put those in the Olympics  A nation of fat kids, with massively muscular thumbs...
I think the trap that UK Sport are falling into, is that curling and skeleton are relatively new Olympic sports. It is always easier to achieve good results at "new" sports, because fewer nations have got around to funding them seriously. (For example, in the early days of short-track speed-skating, Britain was very successful. Then, the South Koreans and Chinese started pouring resources into short-track, and now Britain is further off the pace.)
By going for medals in curling and skeleton, perhaps UK Sport could be accused of short-termism. It may pay off. But I don't see how medals in skeleton could inspire people to take up the sport themselves. The same applies for curling, to a certain extent, in England, Wales and N Ireland, anyway.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Martin Bell, I'd be more worried by excessively muscular right arms (on blokes anyway...) - see http://www.m@stvrbate-a-thon.com/ (yes, it's in London...) you may need to edit the URL as I didn't think it proper to use plain text! And no, it's NOT my kind of thing.
Maybe part of the problem, and this relates to another thread on UK snowsports not communicating well with "smaller" organisations...if we at the grass roots proved our interest and watched enough racing on TV then they'd have to target development funding at areas that were getting advertising and sponsorship spend.
Actually, it seems bizarre that this doesn't already take place. Maybe the viewership figures for Bob skeletion were compelling? I doubt it however...
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Poster: A snowHead
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| rjs wrote: |
One mass participation sport is cycling.
I had a quick look to see if I could find out how many people were registered with British Cycling as competitors but haven't found it yet.
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I used to race competitively and at the time the British Cycling Federation had around 30,000 licence holders and the separate and rival RTTC had around 60,000 competitors. MTBing has come along since then. Cycling is a sport, at least on the track side, where Britain has a good record of success and where lottery money had made a significant difference to that success. Cycling is also something you can do outside your front door any day of the year. At the same time Britain, a nation of 55 million people, has not had the same success in cycling as small nations such as Australia or Ireland.
Viewing Britain from some distance it is hard to think what widely played sports the nation does excel in but I don't personally see ski success as that much of a priority to getting people to participate in sport more and to lead healthier lifestyles which would be a benefit to the nation (as good old Yo! Blair! said yeserday).
I suspect they are giving skiing a million because the lottery funders just don't want to take the logical decision and cut funding altogether. Maybe not the most popular opinion on a ski forum but I personally think funding British skiers competitively is a waste of money. I accept that other people think differently.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| davidof wrote: |
| .........Viewing Britain from some distance it is hard to think what widely played sports the nation does excel in ......... |
Really?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Nick Zotov, There were only eleven players there.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Martin Bell, I'd happily donate, boots, liners and footbeds to all, all sports, but would expect that to already be taken care of.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Nick Zotov wrote: |
| davidof wrote: |
| .........Viewing Britain from some distance it is hard to think what widely played sports the nation does excel in ......... |
Really? |
I don't call whopping a few ex-colonies at Cricket excelling in an international level sport.
However I did think of at least one area where the Brits are world class and respected as such - climbing. It is also a sport where you can learn the trade on your doorstep in many parts of the country, from Kent to Cumbria not forgetting ice climbing in Scotland. The key is facilities.
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| laundryman wrote: |
I'll vote for you. ;-) |
I must admit I don't see why taxpayer's money should be given to a bunch of cheating brats who should go and get themselves proper jobs instead of sponging off the state but the lottery money... surely that is a matter for the people who play and the regulator? It is not like it is compulsory like tax is (or at least is for the lower and middle classes of the UK).
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davidof, it is a tax on the gullible - and many can't help being that. They are often those who can least afford to be forking out, living in a false hope. And it spawns a load of parasites on society, such as the regulator, and the quango that distributes the funds. I do feel that any organization that wants funds should raise them itself, and not rely on public funding. If members of the public really do wish to support something, I think that they should do so by individual conscious decision.
However, I can feel myself getting dragged into areas I'd really rather not go into in snowheads - so I'll back off. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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If £10 Million was spent on skiing for the 2012 games would it produce any medal winners. The LTA has raised and spent huge sums of money over the last ten years with no success in lifting the standard at the top of British tennis.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Nick Zotov wrote: |
| davidof, it is a tax on the gullible - and many can't help being that. |
I have played the lottery only on one occassion, that of a massive roll-over week when the rest of my colleagues on a project bought tickets as part of a syndicat. I joined in because had they had won I would have been left as the sole pilot of the project from hell (apart from various bosses) so felt my 1 quid was more an insurance policy than the act of the gullible.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Sun 30-07-06 22:31; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| riverman wrote: |
| If £10 Million was spent on skiing for the 2012 games. |
We might need some serious global cooling for that to happen
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Martin Bell, Well you never know ! Where are the Winter games in 2014?
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You know it makes sense.
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Oh, I was thinking slalom down Beckton Alps in 2012! And long track speed-skating on the Albert Dock.
2014 will be in one of these:
PyeongChang, South Korea
Salzburg, Austria
Sochi, Russia
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| davidof wrote: |
| That is until dry skiing or snowdome slalom becomes an Olympic sport that is. |
Actually, snowdomes have already hosted Europa Cup events in Alpine skiing and World Cup events in snowboarding.
| davidof wrote: |
| It is also a sport where you can learn the trade on your doorstep in many parts of the country, from Kent to Cumbria not forgetting ice climbing in Scotland. The key is facilities. |
Don't forget that, each year, thousands of Brits learn the "trade" of skiing at over 50 dry slopes in the UK. Very few people live more than one hour from a dry slope, which is pretty much "on your doorstep". Not something you could say of skeleton tracks in Britain...
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Mon 31-07-06 19:19; edited 2 times in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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| davidof wrote: |
| I must admit I don't see why taxpayer's money should be given to a bunch of cheating brats who should go and get themselves proper jobs instead of sponging off the state |
davidof, that's a very disillusioned view from yourself and Geoffrey Wheatcroft in The Observer. Perhaps understandable, with the current Landis/Gatlin situations.
But I recall reading similar articles 18 years ago after the Ben Johnson affair; people didn't stop watching professional sport though. If anything, viewing figures for major events have increased since 1988.
Top-level, professional sport is here to stay. Britain's (and any other country's) decision is simply whether it gets involved or not. It seems that by hosting 2012, Britain is now involved.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Cycling gets the money and turns it into results, its as simple as that. Results = more money. The system is to to get youngsters in and develop them, fund them and move them on to pro teams. If your not a medal chance in major games your not in the squad, its ruthless but it means those involved are totally committed and everyone pushes for squad places. Its all or nothing. British Skiing needs to get organised and maybe stop funding people who get bored and go and work for Daddy when it doesn't work out. Go big or go home.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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For the 2012 Olympics, UK Athletics has set pre-defined standards in each discipline and is aiming to drive up performance levels so there are at least 10 athletes in each discipline above those levels. The levels will increase annually. http://www.powerof10.info/01_about.html - they don't mention funding on their website.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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UKsport allocates money on the bases of results. In Turin, Bob Skeleton won one Silver Medal and had two other top-10 places. The best skiing/snowboarding could do was Chemmy's 11th in the Downhill, and Zoe's 15th place in the Snowboard cross.
The days of Sport for All have been over for a very long time.
Oh, and the biggest participant sport in the UK is fishing.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| RobW wrote: |
| UKsport allocates money on the bases of results. In Turin, Bob Skeleton won one Silver Medal and had two other top-10 places. The best skiing/snowboarding could do was Chemmy's 11th in the Downhill, and Zoe's 15th place in the Snowboard cross. |
I know - and I agree that that is the only empirical, impartial way to do it. That's what I meant earlier when I said: "In the end, they have to go with performance rather than participation, otherwise we'd have really well-funded Olympic teams for the events of "walking the dog" and "going down the pub"...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| RobW wrote: |
| The days of <i>Sport for All</i> have been over for a very long time. |
And that's why Britain's obesity rate is rapidly catching up with the US. The long-term cost in healthcare will probably be greater.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Wed 2-08-06 22:27; edited 1 time in total
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| Martin Bell wrote: |
And that's why Britain's obesity rate is rapidly catching up with the US. The long-term cost in healthcare will probably be greater. |
A major reason the obesity rate is going up over the Western world is the way food is produced. For example corn syrup replacing sugar in many foods. France, not a noted home of lard-asses also has rapidly increasing obesity rates. You are what you eat.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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why don't all package based tour operators simply take £2 from each booking and donate it to the British team for the next few seasons in the run up to the Winter Olympics........I'm sure most skiers wouldnt object, afterall there is a tax on most things these days!!! I mean u pay a tourist tax, a landing charge and airport inprovement fee (for Canada) etc why not a simple, small fee or donation for the development of our sport....
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