I've had my first intro to skimo/touring this season. I hired kit to do a couple of pisteside night time tours.
I'm thinking of getting some kit so I can tour more regularly and not have to hire. However, I'm going to be honest, at weekend when I can do most of my skiing I'll more than likely not be touring. I'm more likely to tour at night up the side of a piste after work for an hour or so just to keep fitness up through the winter. We have a few night skimo routes nearby.
As I'm not going to be doing this loads, I'm considering just swapping my bindings over to Shifts on my all mountain skis (Atomic Bent 90s) and then buying skins and touring boots. These skis are my prefered ski for most of what I do already so I don't want to really compromise them too much.
The alternative is to get some second hand touring skis/bindings/skins and new boots.
Which option would people recommend? I don't want to throw a stack of money at it if I can get away with it!
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I have a ridiculously massive pair of skis with some shifts on, 121 underfoot and when I did my mountain safety module I found them so heavy and cumbersome that I hired some Elan Ripsticks 88 with pin bindings and the difference was night and day.
So when we moved out here to Austria I bought some 2nd hand Scott skis with a pin binding on 95 underfoot, and so far i've used them twice this season to tour on, and twice on piste after some snow.
As your skis are 90 underfoot, the difference will just be the binding weight of a shift vs a pin binding, which isn't going to make a huge difference vs my scenario.
You're going to need touring boots which ever choice you make, but in your situation, i'd be inclined to go with the shift on your current skis.
Might be worth seeing if your son can get a pair of shift bindings via an instructor deal and save yourself a large chunk of cash
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
If you’re largely ski touring at night then I’d suggest downhill ski performance isn’t of great importance. Seeing as you’re talking about buying skins, bindings and boots anyway I think you’d be better off buying a used set of lighter weight touring skis. They’ll likely come with skins and bindings so there shouldn’t be much difference in overall cost.
@hammerite, Why not just by skins for your existing skis? If you decide to do a lot you can invest later when you have a better idea about what might work for you?
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
You are going to end up with more than one touring setup. You just are. Trust me on this.
The future probably looks like a midfat (10*mm underfoot) with a freeride binding that you use for touring off the lift. You will probably end up owning something that primarily goes uphill and is a bunch lighter.
You might be able to pick up skins second hand – people lose and break skis all the time, so just look for some that are bigger and cut them down if you can't find an exact fit. I did exactly this and got an almost new pair of G3 skins that fit my skis perfectly, from someone who had totalled one ski.
A shift binding is much better than a frame binding, and skinning up pistes isn't exactly technical terrain, so you should be fine with this setup. Spend more once you get to the state @gorilla is in
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Yeah. It depends. My experience is very much that buying a "sort of works" set up then leads to more spending over time as you then buy the "sort of works" kit and then the "actually works" kit. I appreciate that's a personal perspective from someone with questionable impulse control as regards gear.
After all it is free
After all it is free
@hammerite, don’t mess up your AM setup. Buy a 2nd hand dedicated touring setup with pin bindings. Shifts are the worst of all worlds IME
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
And faffing with 2 sets of boots in one pair of (shift) bindings will make you less likely to go out touring…
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
the big decision/cost will be what touring boots, get that sorted and ensure whatever you pick on boots will be okay for what you want them to do. As you are doing it for fitness and the odd hour or so I would suggest getting the beefiest boot with pins that would work for your skiing standard. Nothing worse ime than light but noodly touring boots. I went through 3 pairs of free ride boots till finally found some I could actually ski on. I did my EMS with 1k ascents in plug race boots, mantras and Duke frame bindings. Shoulda added a set of ball and chains for the full fitness set up
A lot depends on how heavy you are, how hard you ski, and how hard you wanna ski on your touring gear. Personally I would prioritise downhill performance and not have to worry about releases but everyone thinks different on this. a few 100grams aint going to make much difference but if all you want em to do is purely up for fitness then cheap light reliable pin binders are the ticket.
If all you are going to be doing is the odd hour or so shifts would be fine and give you some options if you fancy skiing em on your current boots but I wouldn't mess up your current ski/binding setup. Every time ive redrilled skis bad things have happened with binders pulling out and snapped two pairs (one tele, one shift touring)
I would get boots and keep an eye out for 2nd hand touring setup. Skins can be pricey and as others said easily cut to fit.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I put shifts on my stockli stormriders for more or less exactly the reasons and purpose you outlined, I mainly do 400-1000m of up tours, mostly inbound. Paired with atomic hawk xtd130s, fantastic boots and setup for ups and downs, not fussed that I'm slow on the up.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
If you can get your derriere down to my part of the world I've just put my Scott 181 100 waist Powdairs in the local shop for sale Inc skins and crampons Vipec bindings a mere snip at €325
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Thanks all. Interestingly, nearly everyone has a slightly different view on this. I’m erring on the side of not messing around with my AM skis and keeping them as they are.
I’ve been looking on Facebook marketplace and Wallapop but anything on both of those locally looks old, pretty battered and over priced. Some of the stuff on the U.K. backcountry sale group looks good but that’s going to be a PITA to get over here (and loads of people seem to be selling ridiculously wide skis that are unnecessary here!). I might just go into a hire shop and see whether they’re willing to sell any of their rental kit. Both places I’ve hired from so far were hiring out decent kit that looked lightly used.
@swskier, That’s an option on any new kit although he doesn’t seem to know where he can get instructor discount (not shops anyway, he knows all the bars where he gets discount).
@Weathercam, Bit too far and not enough time for me to get there unfortunately. Skis are probably a tad too long for me too.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
skimottaret wrote:
As you are doing it for fitness and the odd hour or so I would suggest getting the beefiest boot with pins that would work for your skiing standard. Nothing worse ime than light but noodly touring boots. I went through 3 pairs of free ride boots till finally found some I could actually ski on. I did my EMS with 1k ascents in plug race boots, mantras and Duke frame bindings. Shoulda added a set of ball and chains for the full fitness set up
A lot depends on how heavy you are, how hard you ski, and how hard you wanna ski on your touring gear. Personally I would prioritise downhill performance and not have to worry about releases but everyone thinks different on this. a few 100grams aint going to make much difference but if all you want em to do is purely up for fitness then cheap light reliable pin binders are the ticket.
I don’t know how big you are but this doesn’t sound like recent experience? I’m 90kg loaded and my preferred touring kit (if it’s not powder conditions) is a 1200g ski, 280g (ATK) binding and a 1000g boot. I’ve got another heavier set with Shifts but don’t use them as the experience is so markedly inferior. I’ve never had a pre-release on the bindings and while they have a speed limit it’s pretty high
There is a certain joyful freedom skipping up a ridge with light kit in a boot with a wide range of motion that is significantly reduced lugging up heavy inefficient kit.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@hammerite, see if he can sign up to Rossignol VIP or Amer pro sports club
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
The advice about how even just dipping your toe into touring leads to a proliferation of kit is absolutely sound! I did a one day course at Glenshee years ago just out of interest. Bad idea.
Being a tackle tart (fishermen know what I mean), and having struggled in powder, I thought some very expensive and very fat skis were the answer. So bought some with frame bindings. And stuck with heavy boots. Realised that there were only any good in powder conditions. So bought touring boots. Then touring skis and bindings. Then another pair for rock hopping. Then a set of heavy gs skis as my old AM skis felt like a compromise. Then new and stiffer piste boots. Then decided on instructor journey….
It’s a rabbit hole all to easy to fall down! So take the advice to get the right set-up from the start with no compromises. The posters above know what they are talking about!
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@zikomo, oh don't worry, I'm well aware of the dangers of falling into the kit trap. Cyclist, runner, skier, awful padel player (with all the gear...)
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@ecrinscollective, Probably no wider than 90mm and length no shorter than 164 up to 170-ish cm.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
If it's purely for fitness and speed doesn't really matter go with the heaviest set up you can find
I don't really see the need to buy a load of shiny new things if your goal is simply to skin up the side of a piste occasionally. If you were doing multiday trips and 1500m+ days it would be different. But for your needs Shifts and a touring boot seem sufficient. But I'm still using a heavy second hand splitboard I bought 8 years ago that would make the weight weenies cry so I might not be the person to ask
@ecrinscollective, Probably no wider than 90mm and length no shorter than 164 up to 170-ish cm.
Ok I have some 180's but they would be too long for you.
For me I wouldn't mess with your piste set up, as you seam to really like that. Also it wouldn't be that bigger saving as you would be buying skins, binding and boots anyway. It's not that much more to add skis even new on sale or package deal. Second hand should be cheaper still but not always the case (not sure where you're based).
In France there is a ski rando bon coin on Facebook and the website https://www.everide.app/fr/skis-rando-occasion?sizes=19 can be a good place to get stuff. To get a new ish ski with a half decent binding and skins you are look €500 - €800 ( as an idea I am selling my set been used twice for €650 but I got them as a sponsorship). If you were thinking cheaper then they will probably have been hammered but I wouldn't rule them out for what you want. Often local ski shops or even my local inter sport offer second hand sets or ex rental ones at a lower price.
this doesn't look a bad price for ski - skins and bindings if it fits your boot size -https://www.everide.app/fr/produit/k2-skis-rando-talkback88-k2-occasion,65b132356de54
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@ecrinscollective, Thanks, I’ll check out the fb group and site. I’m in Andorra so I might find someone selling close by in the Pyrenees.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I’ve held off buying so far. Getting stuff delivered into Andorra can be a dark art at times so I’m always cautious hence not buying anything from Sport Conrad. Most things on the second hand pages tend to be in the Alps too and not a lot out my way. Anyway, this dilly dallying may have fallen in my favour. There’s a bunch of touring skis, bindings and boots at 50% in one of my local shops - mainly Dynafit and Hagen but they should suit.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@hammerite, if they have them the Hagen Boost 94 is a terrific ski.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I have a set of Fritschi Tecton hybrid bindings on my touring / powder skis and no longer a fan after having a couple of falls in deep and steep variable snow this season and struggled to clip back into the skiis. I found think extremely tricky to align the tech holes of the boots with the pins on the steep terrain covered in snow. I am now thinking of swapping the bindings for Shifts where clipping-in is normal when in ski mode. I am not concerned about uphill performance as not a serious tourer.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@hammerite, Hagan do rebranded ATK bindings - worth looking out for in preference to Dynafit imho.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
G3 have currently got some fantastic deals - for instance the Ion12 (which I've got - excellent binding) are reduced from £519 to £156
https://genuineguidegear.uk/products/ion-12
My left one is totally messed up. Stable. But messed up. I don’t want a fall which wrecks it. I did a lot of reading, a lot of discussing, and some nice helpful exchanges on here. I was leaning towards ATK Raiders but in the end went for Shifts as my first foray into touring kit. For a change of boot, they require forward pressure to be reset and height to be reset. Easy enough. And not a problem for me since I decided to go for dedicated touring boots, and I would only use the skis with those. Atomic XTD Prime. I like the fact that Shifts have a DIN rating for the release, have a reasonable degree of elasticity, and have an alpine release mode in ski setting. At this stage of mini rather than macro tours I feel OK about the higher-than-ATK weight. We do need downhill performance as well as up. I note that Nico Schirmer does HUGE Freeride blasting on tech bindings. That’s great, but I do want to feel OK about my knee.
So far, Shifts have been great. I have paired them with reasonably light Atomic Backland skis - and have done some really rewarding day tours. I have not noticed the weight of the Shifts - maybe that’s a lack of experience with tech bindings.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@hammerite have you came across quiver killer inserts? Allows you to change bindings on skis (not on the hill bit to much faff) or multiple pairs of skis to one set of bindings etc. Jon @ the piste office is the oracle on them. Also makes multiple pairs skis easily fit into one ski bag.
After all it is free
After all it is free
@valais2, sorry, very slow reply. Right ankle ligaments - awful. Left ankle and knee ligaments completely fine.
@WASHOUT, I'm aware of them yes. I'll probably just get a different set of skis/boots. I live in a ski area so even if they only get a few uses a year, I'll be able to keep them for years.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@hammerite, ….grim. Prognosis? If damaged rather than detached the. New ones grow along the old ones, over time.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@valais2, no real injuries at the moment. But I seem to go over on the right ankle and end up on crutches a few weeks every year or two. Doesn't stop me from mountain running or playing football when not injured though. It's just weaker.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
