It's both. You need to both push and tip but for someone learning it's easier to just focus on pressure/weight/push at the beginning IMO. Pushing will put the ski into reverse camber which shortens the turn radius. Tipping will shorten it more but IMV you need to push (or use g force) first and tip afterwards, otherwise you risk the ski breaking away or toppling inside. Just to clarify, by pushing I mean extending the outside leg relative to the inside leg which will by default create a tipping action on the outside ski anyway. Personally, I also think that concentrating on (let's call it) pressuring the outside ski also clears the mind of any subconscious skid turn movements, which all require pressure release rather than increase.
For me, at a recreational cross over carving level you only need to think about two things to begin with, short leg/long leg through the apex and as much weight/pressure on the outside ski as you can. You can mess around with the inside ski, little toe, projecting forward etc later on.
I don't see that GS race technique is relevant to someone at the level in the video.
OK, I think we are saying the same thing, putting different emphasis at different parts of the turn. I completely agree that in the setup phase of the turn you need to balance very early against the new outside ski to set up a platform for the rest of the turn. The most straightforward way to do this is to extend/push with your new outside leg as you begin to tip the skis on to their new edges. It's not the only way to set-up a turn, of course, a cross-under transition can also work, but a cross-over is much more straightforward when skiers are still developing their ability to carve turns. Once you get in to the load phase of the turn it's much more difficult to continue to actively push, not least because your outside leg should already be long at this point in the turn, so you can't extend it any further. Continuing to influence the turn radius relies on tipping the skis to bigger edge angles which needs the inside leg to continue to shorten, allowing the hips to move laterally and the skis tipped up to bigger edge angles. A consequence of tightening the turn radius will be an increase in g-forces, so there is a large amount of pressure to actively manage, but that doesn't come from trying to extend the outside leg in the load phase of the turn.
I referenced skiing in a GS course as an example of too much pressure and not enough edge angle. In an effort to hold the line to the next gate I would sometimes push too hard on my outside ski, bracing my outside leg, rather than shortening my inside leg to create bigger edge angles. The resultant edge "chatter" (when the ski breaks the grip, then re-grips, then breaks the grip, at a high frequency) is very distinctive for anyone who has experienced it, and very unnerving at speed when all your focus is getting a line to the next gate. I agree it's a more extreme example than free skiing on piste when developing carving skills, but the principle is exactly what we are discussing.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
rob@rar wrote:
Continuing to influence the turn radius relies on tipping the skis to bigger edge angles which needs the inside leg to continue to shorten, allowing the hips to move laterally and the skis tipped up to bigger edge angles.
I think this is my issue, probably not shown in the video, but something I tried to do last weekend on the only sunny day. I think my default method of skiing (which has worked on flatter slopes in good snow) was to get the ski onto it's edge then ride it thru the turn, vs being dynamic and actively tipping the edges more and more.
This was my BASI L2 longs, and hopefully you can see what I mean? Although carving clean lines I think it could be more dynamic by doing what Rob says in the later part of the turn, which would make everything more dynamic, generate more force/pressure on that outside ski.
I've pushed my score to 130 using 171cm 80mm underfoot Volkl RTM 80s. Current scores show as 128 green, 130 blue, 129 red. Haven't actually skiied any blacks this trip and not likely to do so, as this trip is about restoring Mrs NBT's confidence after injury.
I'm consistently scoring above 100, but not tempted enough to subscribe, I'll be taking the footbeds out i think. Might try to blag a go on the v2 set when my mate goes home, but won't be overly disappointed if it doesn't happen.
@nbt, leaderboard updated!
So, no subscription so you just get Ski:IQ at the end of each run?
There is so much more open to you with a subscription as I'm sure you're aware with all the metrics available to review and it is here that I have found the missing links to improve my skiing by a huge amount saving a small fortune in lessons.
That said, not everyone is a self-analytical critical geek like me.........
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Chasing you down young'uns!!!!
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Wed 22-01-25 18:31; edited 1 time in total
After all it is free
After all it is free
KenX wrote:
Chasing you down young's!!!!
I'd best get on an order the new sensors so I can get going on trying to get further away
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
swskier wrote:
KenX wrote:
Chasing you down young's!!!!
I'd best get on an order the new sensors so I can get going on trying to get further away
order them in plenty of time, it says 3-4 days delivery but I've now been waiting over a week and tracking shows that they are stuck in the US...
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@swskier, Can't tell the difference between Carv 1 or 2, amazingly they seem to work the same, albeit simpler setup with Carv2....
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I ordered some from theskierslounge.co.uk on Sunday and they arrived today. They gave a 10% new subscriber discount which more than covered the delivery charge.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@Slippery Slope, when will you be out on them?
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
And it's getting tight at the top of the leaderboard, mere fractions of decimal points separating the top 4!!!!!!!!
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
KenX wrote:
@Slippery Slope, when will you be out on them?
I’ll be trying them out in Alleghe on the pre birthday bash. I don’t expect to be challenging the leader board
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Slippery Slope wrote:
I ordered some from theskierslounge.co.uk on Sunday and they arrived today. They gave a 10% new subscriber discount which more than covered the delivery charge.
ordered from Carv last Tuesday for delivery to Italy and tracking says still in the USA a week later! annoying as these are a replacement pair after having misplaced the ones I bought so now a week and half into the trip and no Carv, haven't the faintest idea where I left the originals but very very frustrating!
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Im on day 3 of using Carv for the first time. I’m happy with an IQ of 119 and discovering that I do actually have edge angles. OH just said that I look like I’ve got better so all good. But does anyone know why my distances are so out? Been running ski tracks as well which is recording more mileage per day. Carv today said I’d done 21.3 miles in the profile bit but only 16 in the activity bit. I’m a bit flummoxed….
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@melbouch, Carv doesn't count lifts, does ski tracks?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Ski tracks give total overall distance and ski distance.
Just used my Carv sensors for the first time on mountain this week and got a score of 134 shame that might be the last time I get to use them properly for another year, felt like I was just starting to get to grips with what it was asking of me and begining to see improvements overall
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Used them yesterday in Isola. Addicted already!
With a Ski IQ of 115 - I’ve lots of work to do but I was amazed by the ease of the product and the depth of data that you can review. Made some immediate improvements just in a few hours and really got me analysing my skiing like never before.
Off to the 3V in 5 weeks and will try and use Carv daily.
I put my order in for the new units last night, lets see how long it takes for them to get to Austria.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@swskier, probably pot luck but this is the position from Carv. (10 days for me so far and tracking doesn't even mention a location anymore! just says "in transit to next facility")
--
Please note that USPS orders are experiencing delays due to capacity issues in their network. All orders showing 'USPS awaiting item' have been shipped from our warehouse and will be with you as soon as possible, it is not possible for us to amend orders at this stage but we are working with our warehouse and USPS to expedite your order. We apologise for the delay.
After all it is free
After all it is free
@richb67, it'll turn up when it turns up I guess. I'm racing (attempting to) this weekend and back in the UK next weekend, so there's no rush either way.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@swskier, my heart always sinks when I see a new post from you thinking you've got a new high IQ
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@KenX, new trackers due Monday or Tuesday, will try my best to get a little lunch time ski in next week before I fly back to the UK for the weekend. I'll try my hardest for a new IQ just for you
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I’ve got a spare set of Carv2’s available for anyone to try at the PreBBWUW12. A few buddy passes available too which gives you a full function day for free.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@swskier, thanks a bunch...........
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@kerb, good job
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Carv website says sold out, next batch 30th Jan.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
So I know I'm a pretty poor intermediate but I'm not understanding the new carv scores. I was 120 on blue and 107 on reds last year, this year I'm scoring better on red 110 but nowhere near 120 on blues. Something on the measurements has changed significantly and not sure what.
With a Ski IQ of 115 - I’ve lots of work to do but I was amazed by the ease of the product and the depth of data that you can review. Made some immediate improvements just in a few hours and really got me analysing my skiing like never before.
Off to the 3V in 5 weeks and will try and use Carv daily.
A really impressive piece of kit.
I found it very addictive too and noticed a lot of improvement over my first week of using Carv. As did my OH. I did switch active coach off about 2pm though as I wanted some quiet and as my ability drops off with lumpy bumpy pistes I didn’t need to be told how bad each turn was!
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Curious on the leaderboard scores. I used Carv v2 for the first time last week and found it very impressive.
My current absolute max (so far) is 137 carving on Sittelle down into Meribel Mottaret. I think I'm 132 or similar on red and 120 something on green. Didn't really ski any blacks yet with Carv attached.
These were absolute best scores though, normally when slithering down a blue I get 120-125 ish. I presume the scores posted on the leaderboard are absolute bests and not what people get consistently if they were to mindlessly cruise down a run without focussing on skiing well?
@NoMapNoCompass, obviously in the name of ego-stroking they are the absolute best!!!
I don't do mindlessly cruising, but if I did I'd probably be around 130........
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@NoMapNoCompass, you make 31 now on the leaderboard, good turnout!
@NoMapNoCompass, similarly to @KenX, mindlessly cruising isn't really in my nature, so I'm either skiing "properly", or I'm not skiing. The joys of living in the mountains I guess.
I'm in the office today, but I've had the DPD notification to say my Carv 2 units have arrived, so I'll try and get out on them during the week somehow around my work schedule.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I don't live in the mountains and am a three trip a year man so I do need to constantly think and concentrate on things I am doing wrong. Well at least I did on this first trip of the year at least! By just cruising, I mean end of the day when 50+ km in legs.
So you would consistently get a score of 150+ day in day out? Impressive!
After all it is free
After all it is free
@NoMapNoCompass, I only ski half days usually, so it's very much skiing as much as possible at the top of my ability to do so. Obviously terrain, conditions and crowds determine what I'm able to do, but, whenever possible, I'm trying to ski as well as I possibly can. Even if I'm skiing along a blue road type piste, I'll still be edge to edge carving. Not every run is 150+, but every run I'm trying to hit 150+.
For me, as someone training towards, and taking instructor exams, I find I'm always viewing it as a training session, not just skiing for the fun of it (albeit I'm having fun in the moment).
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@KenX, good news and bad news,
Bad news, I got a new top score.
Good news, it's only 1 higher, 154.
Only skied for an hour or so before work, but it was perfect, albeit some softer spots on piste here or there.
I actually ran out of room to score higher, because included in that 154 the final 3 turns are 146, 145 and 136. Highest turn in there was a 167.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Amazing! In awe, well done.
That is what I was getting at with my 'just cruising' statement though. To get my (lowly) 137 I had to get a nice clean bit of piste where it was safe to really focus on carving, as a result it was a shorter run like yours. Normally if I skied a more crowded run top to bottom 100+ turns instead of 10-20, then there would be some non carving, skidded turns as I navigated around obstacles or people, hence dropping the score.
But again, wow, 154! Some technically superb skiers on here.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
ordered from Carv last Tuesday for delivery to Italy and tracking says still in the USA a week later! annoying as these are a replacement pair after having misplaced the ones I bought so now a week and half into the trip and no Carv, haven't the faintest idea where I left the originals but very very frustrating!
