Had my first play with Carv2 (never tried the original) in the last few days. I'm scoring 143 on my new ( ) Nordica Enforcer 99s. Haven't been out on the SL boards yet though so....
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Great score on 99's
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@tomb, pictures not working for me, but if you're struggling with balance, a stork turn practise session will likely help improve things.
Find a slope that’s not too steep as it really favours precision over speed
That's interesting. On my new daily drivers (Enforcer 99) I'm finding I need a bit more steepness in order to generate the speed, edge angles and G-Force to score well. I can believe this is less necessary on SLs though.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I had the C2 for a few weeks before Christmas. Definitely find that scores are both route and equipment sensitive… going from Camox (95) to Kassel (75) width made a big difference. However, the whole gamification and feedback was really useful.
Especially liked the ‘active scoring’ feature where you get positive beeps if you hit a metric… it’s like a video game in real life.
Has anyone tried in offpiste (yellow) runs much? I managed 113 on the Valley Purdue in Tignes… Carv average is currently 118, although I think the route is actually what’s known as Familiale.
Find a slope that’s not too steep as it really favours precision over speed
That's interesting. On my new daily drivers (Enforcer 99) I'm finding I need a bit more steepness in order to generate the speed, edge angles and G-Force to score well. I can believe this is less necessary on SLs though.
For context these were freshly tuned FIS slalom skis borrowed from a junior racer. They were rockets and I could barely bend them.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
swskier wrote:
@tomb, pictures not working for me, but if you're struggling with balance, a stork turn practise session will likely help improve things.
Changed some settings, they should now be visible?
After all it is free
After all it is free
Was recently given a set of c1 from a friend who got his c2 upgrade. I've not subscribed so i don't have all the info, but my current score after 2 days is 128, set on Wed'ze patrol 95 @ 175cm (I'm 177, 71kg) on day 1. I am pleased with that but can't see myself subscribing and aiming to improve, i go skiing to enjoy myself. Have gone back to volkl rtm80 but max score did not improve, well see how things go and report back
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@tomb, yes, I can see them now.
Looks like you're a tiny bit of snowplough in the transition period, that's likely due to having weight on the old outside ski when you start the new turn.
Stork turns will help fix all these things, especially balance, as you'll really struggle with a stork turn if you're not in the right position.
I've switched out my SL skis for a pair of Line Blades, as they are just more fun, if not as easy to get high edge angles out of. Max score on them was 147 a week or so back, and I could not get any higher - that said, getting properly low into the turns was hard due to some very knackered legs by the time I started playing with Carv. Definitely lazily inclining more and separating/angulating not enough.
I put the Blades in to the app. 95 underfoot, with a hilarious 150 shovel, so have a big sidecut, and are actually carving skis.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
To answer another question, i used it both off-piste and in big bumps: it senses uneven terrain, tells you, scores you and gives tips. I didn't find the tips that useful, to be honest, especially in moguls.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I nipped out on my lunch break today. Zero visibility, and of course the pistes are already trashed, and bumpy with some fresh snow. However, got myself a new top score of 153. This brings me back almost to my rating prior to the update. Best single turn score in that mix was 161.
I'm going to order the new Carv 2.0 sensors, because my feet were in agony with the inserts in today, made worse with the fact I have new liners.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
BobinCH wrote:
jedster wrote:
@BobinCH,
Quote:
Find a slope that’s not too steep as it really favours precision over speed
That's interesting. On my new daily drivers (Enforcer 99) I'm finding I need a bit more steepness in order to generate the speed, edge angles and G-Force to score well. I can believe this is less necessary on SLs though.
For context these were freshly tuned FIS slalom skis borrowed from a junior racer. They were rockets and I could barely bend them.
I noticed you were on FIS SL ( I joined the snowheads Carv group and looked at your run).
I was on my 15 year old secondhand and not recently tuned FIS SL this morning and managed 147. Not as big a difference as I hoped for but I was more consistent.
I think Carv 2 ( never tried the first version) is pretty great actually - I've realised quite a few little glitches in my technique which I'm starting to do something about.
Made me interested in taking a lesson too.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@swskier, 9 degree red? I’m not sure I like the ski:iq, it has changed how I ski when conditions are good. I’d often ski a run in one hit, now I tend to be stopping lots more to check the iq, which ends up less enjoyable skiing.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@kitenski, might be because it was a flatter section of the red, which is why it's only 9 degrees??
I agree with you re how it changes your skiing. I only tend to use it when i'm on my own, as i'm happy to stop and start, because i'm specifically aiming at improving my ski IQ. If I were with a bunch of people I wouldn't bother.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
swskier wrote:
@kitenski, might be because it was a flatter section of the red, which is why it's only 9 degrees??
I agree with you re how it changes your skiing. I only tend to use it when i'm on my own, as i'm happy to stop and start, because i'm specifically aiming at improving my ski IQ. If I were with a bunch of people I wouldn't bother.
Yeah, that's the way to use it I think. Switch off the audio, leave your phone in your pocket when you are skiing with friends then take a look in the evening and see if any of the tweaks you have been working on have stuck.
When I'm on my own I like the turn to turn monitoring and will stop at the end of a section that has been good for working on the fault(s) I'm currently trying to fix.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@swskier, @jedster, yeah I've done both, I've also upvoted an idea on their forum to take a median.
I *do* like it to improve certain things, ie was working on bigger edge angles and had it reading them out after each turn which worked well when I was trying things, that managed to get it up from 43 to 47 degrees.
My two highest overall scores are 133 and 130, this the 130 run, hence trying to improve the angle which I think will improve the G force. Then I can go back and make sure I don't F up all the other ones!
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Wed 15-01-25 14:55; edited 1 time in total
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
jedster wrote:
swskier wrote:
@kitenski, might be because it was a flatter section of the red, which is why it's only 9 degrees??
I agree with you re how it changes your skiing. I only tend to use it when i'm on my own, as i'm happy to stop and start, because i'm specifically aiming at improving my ski IQ. If I were with a bunch of people I wouldn't bother.
Yeah, that's the way to use it I think. Switch off the audio, leave your phone in your pocket when you are skiing with friends then take a look in the evening and see if any of the tweaks you have been working on have stuck.
When I'm on my own I like the turn to turn monitoring and will stop at the end of a section that has been good for working on the fault(s) I'm currently trying to fix.
This, absolutely. I only use/check feedback when skiing alone.
@swskier, @jedster, yeah I've done both, I've also upvoted an idea on their forum to take a median.
I *do* like it to improve certain things, ie was working on bigger edge angles and had it reading them out after each turn which worked well when I was trying things, that managed to get it up from 43 to 47 degrees.
My two highest overall scores are 133 and 130, this the 130 run, hence trying to improve the angle which I think will improve the G force. Then I can go back and make sure I don't F up all the other ones!
That looks very tidy indeed (better than me on parallel and edge similarity, you are obviously nicely balanced). Just need the confidence to ski a bit faster and more dynamically and your scores will rise.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
jedster wrote:
That looks very tidy indeed (better than me on parallel and edge similarity, you are obviously nicely balanced). Just need the confidence to ski a bit faster and more dynamically and your scores will rise.
Thank you - I actually think my issue is I park n ride, lock the edges and don't increase them throughout the turn, even with increased speed. This was day 1 of this year when I started to think about it a lot more (alongside Carv). Its just not dynamic enough, so I was working (along with an instructor) on a number of things for the rest of the week.
In that clip you are trying to get the turn completed in too narrow a corridor width for the edge angles you are creating. To achieve that corridor width you are twisting the skis a bit, usually through the apex of the turn. This makes it difficult to tip the skis to bigger edge angles as you are not generating high G-forces to balance against.
Maybe try consciously skiing a wider corridor width so you don’t have to force the skis to turn as quickly? You can the rely and just edging the skis, and crucially get a good feel for building up the G-forces from the setup phase of the turn, and then progressively tipping the skis more as you balance against those forces. On the grade of terrain in that video a wider corridor will mean much higher speeds, so either be comfortable with that or drop down a grade.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@rob@rar, yes thanks Rob trying to finish the turn and not rush it is something I have in mind, Del had me doing two stamps in the fall line as something to envisage if not physically do!
I think was trying to force everything to happen vs being patient and realising the turn radius 17m?? Of my skis needs to be taken into account
After all it is free
After all it is free
@kitenski, it’s a bit of a vicious circle: you’re skiing a relatively narrow corridor width on a relatively steep pitch so you’re rushing the turn by twisting the skis rather than purely tipping them. Because you are twisting the skis you never build up significant G-forces. Because you never build up significant G-forces you can’t tip up the skis to a high edge angle. Because you can’t tip up the skis to high edge angle you can’t make the skis turn in that narrow corridor without twisting them. And so on…
Finding a way of breaking that vicious circle is the key to improving your performance of that type of turn on that grade of terrain. I think a wider corridor will reduce the temptation to force the turn by twisting the skis, maybe working with lots of J-turns (with highly precise sharp tracks, no smearing of the skis) to get a good feel for building up the G-forces. If you are doing well with a traditional J-turn, challenge yourself with one-footed J-turns which curve back the slope until you come to a natural stop. That drill is great for edging skills, but also demands a lot of subtle control of lateral separation as the G-forces will build and then diminish and you have to always be balanced against those ever-changing forces.
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Quote:
maybe working with lots of J-turns (with highly precise sharp tracks, no smearing of the skis) to get a good feel for building up the G-forces
I was just about to suggest that when I watched the video.
I was working on edge angle a bit this morning and did a few J turns back up the hill to test the limits. Found it helpful.
@rob@rar, Since you are here I think I realised today that I'm probably not using enough inclination / too reliant on angulation. My edging stats on Carv are pretty good but I'm not getting that high G Force. Caught my shadow and thought I was probably getting squatted a bit and need to let my upper body fall further inside the turn. Any suggestions for drills? Or mental triggers?
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@jedster, tricky to suggest drills or focus points without seeing you ski, but you might want to think about an inside-hand drag which tries to build edge angles for higher g-forces, which is basically a J-turn with a particular upper body focus. However, great care needs to exercised with that drill as it is way too easy to get the upper body completely twisted out of shape and causing all sorts of problems with your balance and stance. There’s a nice video by Tom Gellie on this drill, although I would to have liked him to highlight the danger of doing the drill incorrectly to avoid getting twisted out of shape. I’ll see if I can find it.
Thank you! Actually I found that last night, thought it was helpful too and have been trying it a bit.
I know what you mean - you have to resist the temptation to REACH for the snow don't you?
If I reach I squat which is exactly the problem I'm trying to fix.
I think doing it without poles and with outstretched "aeroplane" arms is probably the way to go. Maybe trying to touch outstretched finger tips rather than palms?
Anyway I need to work on it a bit more.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
KenX wrote:
Can someone explain how to join the SH group?
I scanned the QR code, but it just set up a new group with just me in it!
odd, it worked for me
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Poster: A snowHead
@jedster, squatting is a common problem when skiers are trying too hard to get big edge angles. One-footed long radius turns (or J-turns) can help as it’s much more difficult to flex the knee deeply if you only have one leg to work with. What we’re looking for is long leg/short leg as this moves the hips well to the inside of the turn. Squatting gives us short leg/short leg, seriously compromising how far we can move the hips inside the turn.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
rob@rar wrote:
@jedster, squatting is a common problem when skiers are trying to hard to get big edge angles. One-footed long radius turns (or J-turns) can help as it’s much more difficult to flex the knee deeply if you only have one leg to work with. What we’re looking for is long leg/short leg as this moved the hips well to the inside of the turn. Squatting gives us short leg/short leg, seriously compromising how far we can move the hips inside the turn.
Agreed - that is the limiting factor at the momement. I'm also thinking about increasing the angle by standing on the outside ski and SHORTENING the inside leg rather than focusing on tipping the outside ski. Seems to be something in that. I was getting the edge angle stat into the low 60s which is an improvement.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
jedster wrote:
Agreed - that is the limiting factor at the momement. I'm also thinking about increasing the angle by standing on the outside ski and SHORTENING the inside leg rather than focusing on tipping the outside ski. Seems to be something in that. I was getting the edge angle stat into the low 60s which is an improvement.
Visualisation of that kind is very personal, so what works for some people is entirely unhelpful for others. For what it’s worth, I also think about shortening my inside leg, trying to bring my knee up to my chest as the turn develops. Important to remember this is a progressive movement through the Load Phase of the turn, not an on/off switch to be flicked as soon as the turn starts.
I actually think my issue is I park n ride, lock the edges and don't increase them throughout the turn, even with increased speed.
That's not park and ride. Park and ride is when you stand on the ski and let it follow its natural turn radius through the apex of the turn without making any effort to influence the turn shape through greater pressure and angulation, which would increase the amount of reverse camber and thus shorten the radius.
FWIW, what i see in that video is you trying to influence the turn radius at the apex by letting the skis drift through releasing pressure and twisting, when you should be influencing it by increasing both pressure and edge angle. It's a psychological block that nearly everyone goes through IME. You see yourself hurtling towards the edge of the piste and subconsciously don't believe the skis will come round in time so revert to an element of a skid turn. It's extremely obvious at 16-17s in the video where you don't let the skis come round in a carve at all before transitioning into another turn, so as others have said, the corridor width that you're trying to ski is much too narrow for the amount of edge angle you're using. You could carve that width quite easily just by pedalling on the skis although in a much more direct and faster line - that would be a fast park and ride.
To eradicate the subconscious twisting movements, I would focus on outside/inside weight distribution and long leg/short leg. I can see why people are recommending J turns but I think you should concentrate on stork turns all the way through the apex to understand what 90-100% outside ski weight distribution feels like with a railing ski. Your weight distribution on many of those turns looks around 60/40 when it should be 80/20 or more. Once you understand that feeling, you can make the psychological breakthrough that the way to bring a ski round in a tighter carved turn is to push on it harder. You literally don't need the inside ski at all in the apex at a recreational level, it just tracks what the outside ski does naturally.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
rob@rar wrote:
Visualisation of that kind is very personal, so what works for some people is entirely unhelpful for others
Agreed, i'm the opposite way round, i'm trying to focus on as much pressure on the outside foot, and getting that leg as long as possible.
@jedster, got a new phone and it worked first time now!!!
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Je suis un Skieur wrote:
Once you understand that feeling, you can make the psychological breakthrough that the way to bring a ski round in a tighter carved turn is to push on it harder. You literally don't need the inside ski at all in the apex at a recreational level, it just tracks what the outside ski does naturally.
In my skiing that doesn’t make sense. If I want to tighten a carved turn I have to tip the ski to bigger edge angles rather than push or press on the ski. The consequence of a tighter turn radius is higher g-forces, so I have to manage that, which will mean more force, more muscle tension, but pushing on the ski doesn’t make much sense to me. When I first started doing a bit of GS training I would often get a lot of edge chatter as I braced against the outside ski to try and make the next gate (which had the effect of pushing it) rather than creating bigger edge angles by tipping the ski.
After all it is free
After all it is free
rob@rar wrote:
If I want to tighten a carved turn I have to tip the ski to bigger edge angles rather than push or press on the ski. The consequence of a tighter turn radius is higher g-forces, so I have to manage that, which will mean more force, more muscle tension, but pushing on the ski doesn’t make much sense to me. When I first started doing a bit of GS training I would often get a lot of edge chatter as I braced against the outside ski to try and make the next gate (which had the effect of pushing it) rather than creating bigger edge angles by tipping the ski.
It's both. You need to both push and tip but for someone learning it's easier to just focus on pressure/weight/push at the beginning IMO. Pushing will put the ski into reverse camber which shortens the turn radius. Tipping will shorten it more but IMV you need to push (or use g force) first and tip afterwards, otherwise you risk the ski breaking away or toppling inside. Just to clarify, by pushing I mean extending the outside leg relative to the inside leg which will by default create a tipping action on the outside ski anyway. Personally, I also think that concentrating on (let's call it) pressuring the outside ski also clears the mind of any subconscious skid turn movements, which all require pressure release rather than increase.
For me, at a recreational cross over carving level you only need to think about two things to begin with, short leg/long leg through the apex and as much weight/pressure on the outside ski as you can. You can mess around with the inside ski, little toe, projecting forward etc later on.
I don't see that GS race technique is relevant to someone at the level in the video.
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rob@rar wrote:
As an aside, can someone explain to me how Carve 2 measures G-forces?
[quote[The Carv 2 hardware is powered by a motion sensor. This incorporates an accelerometer and gyroscope that measure movement and twisting in every axis.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
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